My coral is dying, what happened?

[ronix]

So everything has been going great in my tank. I get home today and all my sps is white, and most of my lps is closed up! I did a 50% water change but I have no idea what caused this. 

Fish and inverts look fine. 

[Pjanssen]

Big Alkalinity or Temperature swing could cause rapid loss.

[Reefkid88]

Did any testing,inspection of mad corals or anything of that nature ?! Maybe something got into the tank and caused everything to be pissed off. 

[ronix]

It’s just a 13 gallon tank. I do 10% water changes weekly and don’t dose anything. It’s been running fine for about 6 months until today 

[Reefkid88]

13g or 1300g I don't feel like that matters. Obviously something happened to the water chemistry to cause the RTN in the birdsnest and caused the lps to be mad. 

 

 Test and see what you come up with,if you don't have test kits then we really can't help you there until you get some. 

[Pjanssen]

The birds nest looked fine this morning and now completely bleached? That's really strange. Any cleaning chemicals or spays? Aroma candles?

[ronix]

Yeah I don’t have a test kit....

 

no cleaning chemicals or anything has been near the tank as far as I know. But it hasn’t effected the fish in anyway so it can’t be ammonia or anything like that. 

[Pjanssen]

How long has the birds nest been in there?

 

[ronix]

At least 4 months. Always been growing like crazy. 

[Reefkid88]

Get some tests going,even if its just API kits and get a idea or take your water to a LFS and see what they say. 

[seabass]

14 hours ago, ronix said:

At least 4 months. Always been growing like crazy. 

 

14 hours ago, ronix said:

I do 10% water changes weekly and don’t dose anything.

There's your answer.  That's fine with softies, or even softies with some LPS.  However, that's just not going to cut it long term with most SPS.

 

Looks like it's gone, but if you still wish to keep SPS, I suggest getting Salifert alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium test kits.  Test a newly mixed batch of saltwater to get your target levels,  then make adjustments using a two part dosing system.  You'd need to compute consumption in order to formulate a dosing schedule.

 

14 hours ago, Pjanssen said:

Big alkalinity or temperature swing could cause rapid loss.

Yeah, an alkalinity issue was likely the cause (rapid swing or not).  Rapid growth of stony corals will deplete your tank's elements.  Pico tanks get away with it by doing massive water changes each week.  Without this, you must dose something like Kalkwasser, or two part.

[Pjanssen]

4 minutes ago, seabass said:

There's your answer.  That's fine with softies, or even softies with some LPS.  However, that's just not going to cut it long term with most SPS.

Seabass, I was going t point this out too but would the lack of dosing cause the bird to go from no signs of necrosis to completely gone in 12 hours?

[ReeferBray]

It can be a few things like a power outage that happened while you at work? Is the heaters and stock working in tank 

And also like advised above go to trusted LFS and test your water ASAP! 

[seabass]

 

3 hours ago, Pjanssen said:

Seabass, I was going to point this out too but would the lack of dosing cause the bird to go from no signs of necrosis to completely gone in 12 hours?

Like @ReeferBray pointed out, it could have been a contributing factor.  Often it isn't just one component that causes problems.

 

3 hours ago, ReeferBray said:

And also like advised above go to trusted LFS and test your water ASAP! 

And keep in mind that a 50% water change has already been performed.  That means nutrient levels were twice as high as before the water change, and elements have been replenished.  So it might not look as bad as it really was.

[Clown79]

Rtn within 24hrs is not uncommon.

 

As research in the hobby is increasing there is evidence that rtn over night and within a few days is actually caused by a parasite that eats the coral inside out.

 

There is often no sign beforehand and no known treatment for it.

 

These parasite attack corals often unhealthy, even if the coral appears healthy.

 

I have lost 3 corals in 3 months to it. Exact same thing. Coral happy, looks healthy, growing, next day white.

 

Check out philaster parasite. You can confirm it with microscope.

 

 

[seabass]

1 hour ago, Clown79 said:

Check out philaster parasite. You can confirm it with microscope.

Interesting.  I still suspect poor water conditions make coral more susceptible to RTN.

 

Was the parasite actually feeding on the coral for months until it suddenly died and released more parasites into the system?  While it might be the cause or contributor of RTN, we must also consider that something triggered it or made coral more susceptible (like an alk swing, or some other stressor).  Some suggest that bacteria are primarily responsible for RTN and that ciliates (philaster and others) are just cleaning things up (feeding on the dying coral or bacteria).  The presence of philaster doesn't necessarily mean it's the cause.

[Clown79]

1 hour ago, seabass said:

Interesting.  I still suspect poor water conditions make coral more susceptible to RTN.

 

Was the parasite actually feeding on the coral for months until it suddenly died and released more parasites into the system?  While it might be the cause or contributor of RTN, we must also consider that something triggered it or made coral more susceptible (like an alk swing, or some other stressor).  Some suggest that bacteria are primarily responsible for RTN and that ciliates (philaster and others) are just cleaning things up (feeding on the dying coral or bacteria).  The presence of philaster doesn't necessarily mean it's the cause.

Unfortunately, you don't see the parasite until it starts decimating the coral.

 

In my situation, my stylo was in excellent health and growing. 1 day there was a large patch of white(overnight), then it looked like cyano. I checked under microscope and then had to research what I saw because it wasn't cyano.

 

Then I learned of philaster parasite which is actually what they believe causes rtn, what leads to it is often either unhealthy corals, water quality issues, having an upset in the system like myself(dino's).

 

There is no treatment for it.

[seabass]

26 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

There is no treatment for it.

Prime Coral sells a treatment (which might not be completely safe for fish).  https://primecoral.com/index.php/product/prime-coral-prevent-rtn/

 

Still not convinced protozoa is THE cause, as they claim.

 

 

[Clown79]

56 minutes ago, seabass said:

Prime Coral sells a treatment (which might not be completely safe for fish).  https://primecoral.com/index.php/product/prime-coral-prevent-rtn/

 

Still not convinced protozoa is THE cause, as they claim.

 

 

I believe a lot of ppl believe it's a questionable product. Not 100%, not a lot of evidence in its effectiveness, very secret ingredient.

 

Not even available everywhere.

 

I know I definitely saw the parasite and worst part, you have a very short window with seeing them. Once the coral is white, they aren't present. 

 

This is the first sign of them. The next day, there were so many you couldn't see the white light.

[Pjanssen]

This is such useful conversation @clown79 and @seabass 

[Clown79]

25 minutes ago, Pjanssen said:

This is such useful conversation @clown79 and @seabass 

It can be really helpful. I had never heard of the parasite and have lost a few to it. Just lost my first acan, which appeared healthy, happy and growing, next day full of slime and the parasites.

 

My microscope has come in handy!

[seabass]

Just to reiterate.  The presence of the protozoa isn't necessarily an indication of what caused the dying tissue in the first place.  They may simply be eating the dead/dying flesh, as a bristle worm would.  We see bristle worms, nassarius snails, crabs, etc around a dead animal, but they aren't necessarily what killed it.

 

But I'm not totally discounting philaster as a primary, or even a secondary "pathogen".  There is a lot that we still need to learn about RTN, bleaching, etc.  However, I feel that many people will get on board with an explanation of something that wasn't their fault.  Please understand @Clown79, that I'm not questioning your husbandry skills (and I know you dose B-Ionic two part).  I'm simply skeptical (at least at this point) that philaster is the sole cause of RTN.

[pokerdobe]

8 minutes ago, seabass said:

Just to reiterate.  The presence of the protozoa isn't necessarily an indication of what caused the dying tissue in the first place.  They may simply be eating the dead/dying flesh, as a bristle worm would.  We see bristle worms, nassarius snails, crabs, etc around a dead animal, but they aren't necessarily what killed it.

 

But I'm not totally discounting philaster as a primary, or even a secondary "pathogen".  There is a lot that we still need to learn about RTN, bleaching, etc.  However, I feel that many people will get on board with an explanation of something that wasn't their fault.  Please understand @Clown79, that I'm not questioning your husbandry skills (and I know you dose B-Ionic two part).  I'm simply skeptical (at least at this point) that philaster is the sole cause of RTN.

This. The assertion (and a bold one at that) put forth by Prime Corals has been ripped apart multiple times on R2R. 

[Clown79]

20 minutes ago, seabass said:

Just to reiterate.  The presence of the protozoa isn't necessarily an indication of what caused the dying tissue in the first place.  They may simply be eating the dead/dying flesh, as a bristle worm would.  We see bristle worms, nassarius snails, crabs, etc around a dead animal, but they aren't necessarily what killed it.

 

But I'm not totally discounting philaster as a primary, or even a secondary "pathogen".  There is a lot that we still need to learn about RTN, bleaching, etc.  However, I feel that many people will get on board with an explanation of something that wasn't their fault.  Please understand @Clown79, that I'm not questioning your husbandry skills (and I know you dose B-Ionic two part).  I'm simply skeptical (at least at this point) that philaster is the sole cause of RTN.

The thing is, the coral wasn't dying, none of them were,  no issues at all until the parasite start decimating the coral.

 

Actually the worst part is that the corals looked amazing and growing, then they are literally being devoured. 

 

I don't believe RTN is completely caused by the parasite, I'm skeptical of that. I believe it can be a cause like many other things. We still have a long ways to go to fully understand everything that causes rtn/stn, parasites, etc

 

A lot of ppl aren't aware of the parasite, so educating ppl is important.

 

 

 

So here is an example.

 

First pic, 2 days ago. Completely healthy, no issues, eating, growing new heads.

 

2nd pic today

 

 

 

[Pjanssen]

^This happened to my acans last year 😪