Fisker's 20 Long Macro Tank!

[Chris's Fishes]

So, after finishing brushing off my macros and doing a half gallon water change (I was bored...) I've decided that I need an official tank thread instead of just sorta asking a bunch of questions in different threads around the site. Hopefully this'll do the trick!

 

Basically, this is a standard 10 gallon tank that's currently housing my macroalgae and my Valentini Puffer. I'm using this tank as a QT tank (dead rock, cycled filter media) as well as a holding tank for my macros as I move tanks around to make room for upgrades. This entire system will move up to a standard 29 as soon as the QT period is over (and as soon as I finish repairing the 29), and the plan is to slowly gather equipment in the meantime. I'm working in an Italian restaurant until classes start, and hopefully I'll be getting something better. For now, I'll basically be funding my aquarium hobby (addiction?) with a portion of my paycheck and tips, so progress might be a bit slow. Progress is progress, though, right?

 

Equipment (as of 6/15/2019):

Standard 10 Gallon Glass Aquarium

AquaClear 50 HOB Filter

Preset Tetra 50W Heater

2 Daylight PAR 20's in a janky fixture

 

Livestock (as of 6/15/2019):

Fish:

Valentini Puffer

 

Inverts:

Blue-legged Hermit Crab (for hunting purposes)

 

Macros:

Codium sp.

Dragon's Breath

Caulerpa Racemosa Pel.

Caulerpa Mexicana (?)

Mermaid's Fan (?)

 

The next thing I'm upgrading is probably going to be the heater (to a 150W Aqueon adjustable heater), as the current heater keeps the tank around 75. Not the end of the world, but I'd prefer the tank to run between 78-80. After that, I'm looking at lighting, as the PAR 20's are a bit weak. I'm getting growth and color, just not as much as I'd like (and this light won't cut it for some of the macros I'll be keeping in the future). So, I'm looking at using two of these PAR 38's over the 10 gallon (https://www.amazon.com/Philips-LED-Non-Dimmable-PAR38-25-Degree/dp/B01CAL1FEQ/), and then maybe upgrading to 4 of them over the 29. I'm going for medium-high light, so three may suffice; not sure yet! Those upgrades will be coming in the next few days/weeks!

 

FTS (6/15/2019):

 

Sorry for the crooked pic - the way that tank is currently situated makes it next to impossible to get good pics.

[billygoat]

Always good to see another macroalgae-focused tank on the block! I'll be following along. 😊

[Chris's Fishes]

@billygoat Thanks! I've spent the past few hours reading through your thread, and you've given me a lot of ideas with stocking macros and such. Awesome tank!

 

I've been considering possibly consolidating some of the stock from my reef tank into this macro tank, and just having the one saltwater tank - I'd probably end up getting rid of my corals, and just keeping the gorgonian and possibly some GSP to grow on the back wall of the tank. I've got a sailfin molly and a small false perc in the reef that I'd move over too. I think the clown would do fine, but I'm afraid the sailfin molly's fins might be a bit too tasty. What do you guys think? Keep the molly, or see if I can get a store to take him?

[billygoat]

36 minutes ago, Fisker said:

@billygoat Thanks! I've spent the past few hours reading through your thread, and you've given me a lot of ideas with stocking macros and such. Awesome tank!

 

I've been considering possibly consolidating some of the stock from my reef tank into this macro tank, and just having the one saltwater tank - I'd probably end up getting rid of my corals, and just keeping the gorgonian and possibly some GSP to grow on the back wall of the tank. I've got a sailfin molly and a small false perc in the reef that I'd move over too. I think the clown would do fine, but I'm afraid the sailfin molly's fins might be a bit too tasty. What do you guys think? Keep the molly, or see if I can get a store to take him?

Given the choice, I always recommend one tank over many. I feel like many reefers end up overextending themselves with multiple systems, which leads to tons of maintenance, which in turn depletes one's passion for the hobby. Sounds like your smaller fish might get picked on if you try to consolidate everything though! Maybe you can find a home for the sailfin before moving everything over?

 

Glad to hear my humble journal has been of use as well! 😊 

[Chris's Fishes]

My clown has already been picking a lot on the molly (not anything serious, but definitely territorial behavior) and, the molly being a freshwater fish, it's definitely much more docile than the clown. Beautiful guy, though. Lots of fun to keep in saltwater, too - I think the different diet, increased flow, and higher PH all have positive effects on their bodies, as every saltwater molly I've had has been a ridiculously healthy fish.

 

I think I'll start moving over the few coral I want to keep tomorrow, and move over the clown once the 29 is set up and ready to go. Hopefully everything goes well! I'm not terribly worried about the coral (I'd love to have gorgs in here, but the rest are just icing on the cake), but I really do want to keep this clown. She's been around for a while now, and has been an absolute trooper!

 

What have been your experiences with providing good flow to a macro tank? I'm going to be sticking with the AC 70 for my HOB, and I'll be throwing in a Koralia Nano 240 now that my reef tank is merging. Should I throw in a second 240, or a 425? Do I even need that much flow? So far, my biggest issues with macros have been keeping them clean, with what looks like brown hair algae growing on my dragon's breath. Would more flow help that? 😕

[yoshii]

Always welcome more macro tanks! 🙂

 

The AC and K-Nano should be enough. I think that was exactly what I used for my old 10g macro tank

[Chris's Fishes]

13 minutes ago, yoshii said:

Always welcome more macro tanks! 🙂

 

The AC and K-Nano should be enough. I think that was exactly what I used for my old 10g macro tank

 

Thanks!

 

I was actually thinking more about the 29, though - the 10 gallon will get upgraded into a 29 once the puffer's QT is up. Will the HOB and 240 be enough, you think, or should I look into adding a second powerhead?

[Chris's Fishes]

I went ahead and moved over most of the stuff from my reef into this tank. At least, the stuff I wish to keep. The clown will remain in the reef for a bit longer, though, to make sure the puffer is pest-free. 

 

Here's what I've added to the tank:

 

Equipment:

Aqueon 50W

Koralia Nano 240

Wattshine 140W black box LED

 

Corals:

Green Star Polyps

Green Toadstool Leather

Rusty Gorgonian 

 

I removed both chunks of Codium from the tank, as I found them to be unsightly algae magnets. I don't mind battling the algae back for a macro I truly like, but this algae just grows into an alien-looking mass of green arms. I threw them into my reef, where my molly's been picking at the hair algae. I'll probably try and clean them up and take them to a local store for a few bucks in credit on my next trip.

 

With this black box over the tank, I sorta had an idea. Why don't I just order a second black box to light the 29 with? I'd probably order a second 140W (same model that I have) and run both over the 29 to help with spread, as this particular model has pretty narrow optics. At 10" above a 10 gallon, the sides are still a bit dim. I get about 17-18" of good, full coverage, meaning that two of these would light a 29 exceptionally well, and give me the option of having a bit more of a full spectrum than the simple 6000K lamps would. Anyone see any issues with that?

 

Here's a picture of the leather starting to slowly peek out. The strobing is from the LEDs being dimmed, and the tank is NOT that dark in real life. My phone just wants to compensate for the darker strobing effect, I think.

 

 

Oh, and here's a pic of the LEDs themselves. It's decently put together for $70.

 

[billygoat]

19 hours ago, Fisker said:

I was actually thinking more about the 29, though - the 10 gallon will get upgraded into a 29 once the puffer's QT is up. Will the HOB and 240 be enough, you think, or should I look into adding a second powerhead?

Macros are weird with flow; some are super sensitive to having too much/too little, and many others just don't seem to care much either way at all. It really comes down to what exactly you want to keep. If you want to have gorgonians as well as macroalgae in your 29 gallon, you may well need a bit (possibly even quite a bit) more flow than just the Koralia 240 can provide. I'd say that once you have the 29 ready to go, start out with the 240 in there, play around with it, and see if it's able to elicit good polyp extension from your gorgs and also keep your macros clean and free of detritus. If not, maybe look for an upgrade.

 

[Chris's Fishes]

Thanks for the tip! I'll do just that 🙂

 

New macro! I picked up a Christmas Tree for $2.50 after I got some credit for some freshwater stuff. It's just the one stalk, but I'm not complaining. I haven't found a ton of info online, but I'm assuming it's pretty similar to other sand-dwelling macros like Mermaid's Fan and Shaving Brush - as long as you keep things consistent, have some nutrients in the tank, and have decent lighting it should do okay. Anyone know anything else about this macro?

 

EDIT: Looks like they could just be a variety of shaving brush. All the other shaving brushes I've seen have resembled an actual shaving brush, but perhaps they come in more than just the one variety.

 

[billygoat]

1 hour ago, Fisker said:

Thanks for the tip! I'll do just that 🙂

 

New macro! I picked up a Christmas Tree for $2.50 after I got some credit for some freshwater stuff. It's just the one stalk, but I'm not complaining. I haven't found a ton of info online, but I'm assuming it's pretty similar to other sand-dwelling macros like Mermaid's Fan and Shaving Brush - as long as you keep things consistent, have some nutrients in the tank, and have decent lighting it should do okay. Anyone know anything else about this macro?

 

EDIT: Looks like they could just be a variety of shaving brush. All the other shaving brushes I've seen have resembled an actual shaving brush, but perhaps they come in more than just the one variety.

Looks to me like one of the "Christmas Tree" or "Pinecone" algae from the genus Rhipocephalus. It is very similar to other rooting macros, as you've noted. As long as things are kept stable and it is in a good location, it should be pretty easy to keep. Be advised that it may not show much growth in the beginning, since sometimes these sand-dwelling algae begin to grow their rhizome rather than their above-ground portions after being transplanted to a new tank. So if it seems to be fairly static for awhile, don't be too concerned; it's probably just preparing to send up a new shoot.

 

Speaking of which, you should be forewarned that if this macro does well in your tank it will spread rhizomes throughout your entire sandbed, and may begin sending up shoots in unexpected locations. Some aquarists hate this because it interferes with their carefully-laid aquascaping plans, but I personally think it is kind of neat.

[Chris's Fishes]

3 minutes ago, billygoat said:

Looks to me like one of the "Christmas Tree" or "Pinecone" algae from the genus Rhipocephalus. It is very similar to other rooting macros, as you've noted. As long as things are kept stable and it is in a good location, it should be pretty easy to keep. Be advised that it may not show much growth in the beginning, since sometimes these sand-dwelling algae begin to grow their rhizome rather than their above-ground portions after being transplanted to a new tank. So if it seems to be fairly static for awhile, don't be too concerned; it's probably just preparing to send up a new shoot.

 

Speaking of which, you should be forewarned that if this macro does well in your tank it will spread rhizomes throughout your entire sandbed, and may begin sending up shoots in unexpected locations. Some aquarists hate this because it interferes with their carefully-laid aquascaping plans, but I personally think it is kind of neat.

Thanks! The rhizome on this guy was pretty tiny - maybe 1/2" around, and I've seen some rooting macros with rhizomes nearly 2" around. I wouldn't be surprised if this one doesn't take a while to get started.

 

I actually like seeing things pop up in new places - if it becomes truly invasive, that's one thing, but I doubt that'd be the case with this type of algae. I wouldn't mind having a handful of shoots around the tank. Might be cool to plop some red and green zoas onto them around Christmas time as "ornaments" 😂

 

[Chris's Fishes]

I've spent the day doing water changes and tearing down aquariums. It's been a long one!

 

I tore down my 10 gallon freshwater planted tank, and replaced it with a 3 gallon jar. I moved the filter, some of the plants, 2 endler fry, a pom pom crab, a bamboo shrimp, and a ton of pest snails in. I think it looks okay, but it's true purpose is just to hold a few fry and breed snails. I really like the pom pom crab, though. I feel as if they don't get the attention the deserve!

 

 

 

I tore down my reef today as well. I caught the molly and bagged everything up that was going to the store. I managed to get stung by my urchin, but luckily I'm not allergic and he wasn't venomous. Still hurt like a mother, though. I'm currently "sanitizing" all the rock that was in the tank (basically, soaking it in 4 parts freshwater and 1 part white vinegar) to try and kill off the funk the rock had on it. I had continuously had bacterial blooms, and I think part of my issue was just simple rock selection, as not all of it is super porous and some of it is the "Real Reef Rock". I'd like to use this rock in the future for QT purposes, so I figure I'll give this a try. The clown got caught and will live in a 40 gallon tote for a while until I figure out when I'm going to be getting these repair supplies in. It's been a few days past the scheduled delivery date, so I'm going to contact someone later today about it.

 

 

I did a 1.5 gallon water change on the macro tank today, as well. While I was at it, I reglued my gorgonian down (as it continues to not want to stay put), and moved over the few CUC and a coral I had in my reef that I wanted to keep. I also went ahead and split up some of my Hayi, as the big portion was shading itself out near the bottom of the algae. I gave all the macros with epiphytes growing on them a good scrub, too, and while I didn't get everything spotless, it looks better. A lot of the old C. Racemosa Pelata growth got trimmed off too, as it was starting to get fuzzy and look pretty bad. Overall, the tank looks way better.

 

 

 

 

That coral skeleton is a hammer that managed to get knocked off it's rock and into a BTA a few days ago. I'm pretty sure it's 100% gone, but wanted to give it some time in the macro tank to watch for signs of life. Pretty sure he's done for, though.

[Chris's Fishes]

Had the day completely off and got bored, so I removed the optics from my LED fixture.

 

Took me around an hour to do, but that's just because I took my time and made sure everything was wired back up correctly to avoid any unwanted BOOMs.

 

My documentation was iffy at best, but I got a few pictures.

 

Here's a picture of the LEDs after I took all the optics off:

 

 

Here's all the optics:

 

 

And here's the fixture when turned on:

 

On first glance, a few things have changed. The spread of the light is much, MUCH better. The edges of the 10 gallon were pretty dark, even when raised around 10-12" above the tank rim. Now, the entire tank is lit very well and the light is mixed much more evenly. Before, the light had almost a purple/red tint to it. Now, it appears to be much more white and blue, which I like.  Very well worth it, IMO.

 

Here's a few pics of some stuff, mainly cause I'm bored.

 

 

Not been fed yet today, and you can see he's hungry!

 

 

 

Also... I'm going to snail Hell.

 

My puffer has issues eating larger snails - his mouth is too small to fit them in there, and I think he gets a bit discouraged after a few attempts at cracking a larger one open. I'm sure it might be different if he wasn't well-fed, but I like my fish kinda fat and happy.

 

For the ones that are too large to eat, I crush them up for him, and he goes nuts for it - he usually tries to eat it out of my hand after it's crushed. Today, I fed him a few small pond snails, and finished it off with a large ramshorn snail that had a decaying shell - I'm assuming calcium was a bit low in the tank he came from. I thought that the puffer might be able to bite through such a weakened shell. I was wrong. 

 

So, I went to crush the snail... and as soon as the shell collapsed, blood spurted everywhere. Like, an abnormal amount of blood. I think maybe a shard of shell cut through an artery or vein, because I've never seen that happen to a snail before. Before long, it went down the hatch. With a few LOUD crunches, I might add. It was sorta fun to see him eat it, because he got SO excited for it, but it was a little sickening for me as well. I don't have a weak stomach, but this one got me.

[billygoat]

Fine work with the LEDs! The light looks great without the optics on there... kind of makes me wonder why they were even included in the first place. 🤔

 

I really like your gorgonian. It's huge! I know it can be a struggle to get them to stay upright, especially when they are very large like that. Wedging their base into a crater in the rock has worked well for me so far. I feel like if you can get super glue on multiple surfaces instead of just on the bottom they have a much better chance of staying put.

 

Also don't worry about going to snail hell; I am pretty sure it's just a big tank full of mantis shrimp and pufferfish... which is probably pretty cool, as long as you aren't a snail. 😉

[Chris's Fishes]

I actually don't really know why they bothered with the optics - in the seller's description, they talk a lot about how it fits a 24" cube perfectly, so I'm thinking this light might have been designed with a shallow cube or a non-standard tank in mind.

 

Thanks! This is actually my first gorg, so it's been an experience. I picked it up for $10, too. I think I'll have to frag it back soon, sadly - the tallest branches are about a centimeter from hitting the water's surface. When you say get it on multiple surfaces, do you mean the top of the "foot" of the gorg as well? Mine has a quarter-sized base that had polyps growing out of it, before it started deteriorating. If it starts to come unglued again, I'll find a place or drill a crater into a rock for it. 

 

Sounds like a pretty cool tank! I'd actually love to try my luck with a mantis shrimp... but I'm secretly a bit terrified of them. I'd love watching him behind a wall of thick acrylic, but I'd have to invest in some very LARGE tongs to get anything done in the tank, as I refuse to put my hands in the water with one. Maybe one day!

[billygoat]

By "multiple surfaces" I mean like the sides of the base of the gorgonian as well as the bottom. If it has polyps on the top you'll want to avoid gluing over those, but usually there is at least some sort of leeway on the sides of the gorg's base that you can also apply glue to. In my experience attempting to place gorgs on a flat surface with glue only on the bottom of their base is much less effective than if you can get glue on the sides of their "plug" as well, and then try to arrange things so that the glue is hitting rock at multiple different angles. It doesn't need to be able to hold forever, just for long enough that the gorg can start spreading its stolon onto nearby rocks. After that happens it should be able to hold on even after the glue fails.

 

I'm almost certain that your gorgonian is Muricea elongata, a photosynthetic species from the Caribbean. If you were to purchase a specimen that size from an online retailer, you'd probably be paying something like $40. So bravo! Seems like a pretty good deal. 😊

[Chris's Fishes]

Gotcha! The gorg is currently on it's own little island, so perhaps I could glue some larger pieces of rubble around the base of the gorg. Thanks!

 

Yup, looks like M. Elongata to me! The ones from Pacific East and Live-plants.com, anyway. 

[Chris's Fishes]

So, I called Lowe's customer support this morning to ask about my missing order.

 

Long story short, they're saying that it shipped and got delivered. It didn't. I was home all day the day it was supposed to get here, and most of the day the day after. After a lot of arguing, they said that they'd resend the package, but to expect it to take an extra week or so because they had to communicate with the post office.

 

I just got a refund. I'll look elsewhere.

[Chris's Fishes]

I went out today and just bought the supplies I needed to repair the 29. I kinda got ripped off on prices, but I guess it wasn't too bad. Got home, started to clean the tank up and silicone the tank back together, when all of a sudden I hear a loud snap. The front panel of the tank brushed up against a cinderblock, caught it in a niche, and broke into a few pieces. 

 

Shucks.

 

I'm not sure I can get a replacement pane for a price that would make it worth it to repair the tank at this point. It might end up being cheaper just buying a new 29 outright. I am so frustrated! I guess I sorta got this tank free (two for one), and I COULD use the other 29 I got with it. But it's had a ton of meds used in it before (copper, methyline blue, malachite green, etc.) and I don't think I trust to use it for a saltwater tank at this point. I had planned on just using it for a fish-only freshwater system in the future, or maybe a larger QT/hospital tank if I ever needed one. Gah.

 

I had to go feed my fish to quell my frustration. Turned out to be pretty effective. The puffer is getting better at getting through larger snails - I'm not sure if he's just learning what part of the shell to attack, or if maybe his jaw was underworked from only being fed mysis at the store. I fed him two pond snails that were bigger than his mouth today, and he got them both down in a few seconds. I finished it off with a couple of tiny chunks of clam and shrimp, which he chowed down on. The clown got the same treatment in his rubbermaid tote.

 

Are those snails enough to keep his beak trimmed back? This particular puffer avoids the shell on the clam on the half-shell altogether. I've heard of krill being a good food to keep their beaks trimmed, but I can only find it online and shipping frozen food is a killer. The pond snails have a pretty brittle shell - you can accidentally crush the smaller ones by just brushing them against the wall too hard. The ramshorn snails have a harder shell, but it's still pretty brittle. I REALLY don't want to have to trim this guy's beak.

[billygoat]

Aw jeez. so sorry to hear about your 29! That's really unfortunate, especially after you went and spent money on the supplies you needed to repair it. 😞 I wouldn't want to use a tank that had been subjected to weird medicines in the past either, so I understand your reluctance to employ your backup tank. Do you think you will end up purchasing a different tank? The poor clown sounds like it will end up living in a tote for a little while longer!

 

As for the puffer's beak... I will leave that one for more experienced reefers to answer. Trimming beaks is definitely way outside of my skill range! 😅

 

Hang in there! The hardships we face along the way just make the final product that much more satisfying.

[Chris's Fishes]

Thanks, it sucks, but it happens. At least I have the supplies now, in case I need them in the future.

 

I'll definitely end up purchasing another tank, it's just figuring out where to find one. For whatever reason, it's become increasingly hard to find bare tanks around here - all of them come with a stand/hood, or are some sort of AIO or non-standard tank size. I can get 2.5's, 5.5's, 10's, and 20 longs. The only place I know I can get a 29 at is in Versailles, at the nearest Petco - a several hour drive, and I'd pay $60 for the tank. I looked online, and all the used tanks I could find are pretty ridiculously priced too. $50 for a used 29 that has hard water stains that look like they've been there since the 90's. 

 

I guess the question is pretty simple. Do I bite the bullet and buy a $60 29 right now, try and wait for a dollar per gallon sale and hope that I can make the drive and find a tank in stock, or do I shell out $25 for a 20 long? A 20 long is a bit smaller than what I was planning, but I guess the length and width would be the same - I'd just be losing height. I don't necessarily mind waiting for the sale, but if it happens to occur around the time classes start, there's a good chance that a drive like that won't be feasible. I could also just wait for one to pop up online at a decent price used.

 

What would you do?

 

As for trimming beaks... I've done it before with a Green Spotted Puffer. It wasn't as bad as it sounds, but it was stressful for me and the fish, and it kinda broke the relationship I had with him for a while. Puffers can be so personable that you definitely feel bad when you have to do something like that! I just want to avoid that, if at all possible.

 

Thanks for the kind words, again. 

[Tamberav]

I would get the 20 long but I don't like deep tanks so that is an easy choice for me.

 

Tank looks great btw!

[Chris's Fishes]

18 hours ago, Tamberav said:

I would get the 20 long but I don't like deep tanks so that is an easy choice for me.

 

Tank looks great btw!

Thanks! It means a lot coming from you.

 

Guess I'll do the 20 long. I've been thinking all day about it, and I guess it comes down to the fact that the fish aren't going to care too much about the loss of height in the tank. They simply don't use it - the puffer seems to explore all levels of the tank, but even he spends most of his time staring at invisible things on the rock or glass. The 9 gallons of water volume that I'm losing kinda sucks, but it's a macro tank - I'm shooting for high-ish levels of NO3 and PO4 anyway, and I think I should be alright as long as I'm careful not to crazy overfeed.

 

Found an asterina star in my tank this morning... I've heard that some of them can eat macros. I'm sure they can, but can they eat enough to be a danger to them? I personally like having them as a part of my CUC, but they make me nervous sometimes.

[Tamberav]

45 minutes ago, Fisker said:

Thanks! It means a lot coming from you.

 

Guess I'll do the 20 long. I've been thinking all day about it, and I guess it comes down to the fact that the fish aren't going to care too much about the loss of height in the tank. They simply don't use it - the puffer seems to explore all levels of the tank, but even he spends most of his time staring at invisible things on the rock or glass. The 9 gallons of water volume that I'm losing kinda sucks, but it's a macro tank - I'm shooting for high-ish levels of NO3 and PO4 anyway, and I think I should be alright as long as I'm careful not to crazy overfeed.

 

Found an asterina star in my tank this morning... I've heard that some of them can eat macros. I'm sure they can, but can they eat enough to be a danger to them? I personally like having them as a part of my CUC, but they make me nervous sometimes.

They seem to mostly eat parts of the macro that are dying or doing poorly already. When the macro is doing well, they seem to help keep it free of micro algae. Some of the softer macros like ulva anything would basically try and eat though. I always had them in all my tanks.