6/10 Update. Mantis (N. Wennerae) Sick? Euthanize?

[TatorTaco]

First time mantis owner here.  Ordered this fella from a reputable distributor and was informed he was missing a raptorial appendage (danger arm) right before shipping. The sender thought he would still be okay, but advised to feed soft foods until the next molt.  Mantis was delivered and properly acclimated.  However, he's acting as though he's going through some sort of shock?  He isn't hiding in the liverock.  Just... curled up in a ball in the sandbed.  I didn't expect him to live through the night, but he has.  Now I'm wondering if he's just suffering and I should euthanize?  Copper has never been introduced in this tank (I'm the only owner). This has been going over for about 72 hours.  I've yet to see him eat.  

 

Salinity is 1.026

Ammonia is 0

Nitrate is 0-2

Nitrite is 0

Temperature is 80*

 

Any suggestions?  

 

Here's a video:  https://i.imgur.com/VE763f1.mp4

 

 

[Tamberav]

What is he in? Looks like a bucket?

 

I would not euthanize...he is possibly having a stressful molt. I have seen mine do this in the past when stressed.

 

I would stop messing with him and dim the lights. Add a peice of PVC he can use if he wants.

[Tamberav]

5 hours ago, TatorTaco said:

First time mantis owner here.  Ordered this fella from a reputable distributor and was informed he was missing a raptorial appendage (danger arm) right before shipping. The sender thought he would still be okay, but advised to feed soft foods until the next molt.  Mantis was delivered and properly acclimated.  However, he's acting as though he's going through some sort of shock?  He isn't hiding in the liverock.  Just... curled up in a ball in the sandbed.  I didn't expect him to live through the night, but he has.  Now I'm wondering if he's just suffering and I should euthanize?  Copper has never been introduced in this tank (I'm the only owner). This has been going over for about 72 hours.  I've yet to see him eat.  

 

Salinity is 1.026

Ammonia is 0

Nitrate is 0-2

Nitrite is 0

Temperature is 80*

 

Any suggestions?  

 

Here's a video:  https://i.imgur.com/VE763f1.mp4

 

 

 

[Snow_Phoenix]

He actually appears to be okay - although probably a little stressed out and about to molt, as Tamberav has mentioned above. Give him some cover though - at least a small PVC pipe or two. 

[TatorTaco]

Thanks for popping by!

 

I had a 10G QT setup before it shipped. The day before it shipped, the seller told me about the appendage and said they’d send the N Winnerae and a 2nd species as a replacement just in case. Since I only had one QT, I put this guy in an old ice cream bucket and put mesh netting and a rubber as to secure him and keep it away from the other mantis. Then, I put the bucket in the tank as well. That is why he appears to be in a bucket. Lots of live rock with PVC included to. 

 

Thanks for the suggestion to give him him a chance and that he might be molting. Should I continue to offer food since he hasn’t tried to burrow?

 

included pic of QT during setup. 

[hayseed777]

Is he getting enough flow through the ice cream bucket? Can the two shrimp see each other? He may be stressing out.

[Snow_Phoenix]

2 hours ago, TatorTaco said:

Thanks for popping by!

 

I had a 10G QT setup before it shipped. The day before it shipped, the seller told me about the appendage and said they’d send the N Winnerae and a 2nd species as a replacement just in case. Since I only had one QT, I put this guy in an old ice cream bucket and put mesh netting and a rubber as to secure him and keep it away from the other mantis. Then, I put the bucket in the tank as well. That is why he appears to be in a bucket. Lots of live rock with PVC included to. 

 

Thanks for the suggestion to give him him a chance and that he might be molting. Should I continue to offer food since he hasn’t tried to burrow?

 

included pic of QT during setup. 

Use a small piece of shrimp or krill and wave it back and forth in front of him. If he snatches it, he is hungry. If he shows no interest, then he will most likely be readying himself to molt. Keep the lights either dim or off, and you can even put a drop of iodine in to ease the process (although this isn't necessary since WCs usually replenish trace elements). Molting can go anywhere between 1 to 3 weeks, depending on the size and age of the shrimp. 

 

Try not to disturb him too much or move the pipes in the tank. If you are worried he has died, you can check your water for an ammonia spike first or get an ammonia badge to monitor the water. Molting is a sensitive process - some inverts die during mid- or post-molt. 

 

That lost smasher should slowly regrow back to full size after each molt. Also, remove any uneaten food after an hour or two or it will foul the water. Mantises have a habit of hoarding frozen or raw food in their burrows (or pipes).

[Tamberav]

I wouldn't dose iodine. It is toxic if overdosed to stomopods. Otherwise Snows plan is good.

 

I think your guys need some real tanks 🙂

 

 

[TatorTaco]

This is all awesome first hand experience. I really appreciate it. The ice cream bucket was opaque and it had neon green mesh. Pretty sure the mantis didn’t know each other were there. It’s just cheapo freshwater stock lights, but I’ll just leave them off. The bucket was fully submerged and I’m pretty sure the flow was sufficient. 

 

The shrimp feeding...if the piece is too large, will it nibble or just eat what fits in its mouth like a fish would do. I can cut little slivers, but they might still be too large. 

[pgrVII]

2 hours ago, TatorTaco said:

This is all awesome first hand experience. I really appreciate it. The ice cream bucket was opaque and it had neon green mesh. Pretty sure the mantis didn’t know each other were there. It’s just cheapo freshwater stock lights, but I’ll just leave them off. The bucket was fully submerged and I’m pretty sure the flow was sufficient. 

 

The shrimp feeding...if the piece is too large, will it nibble or just eat what fits in its mouth like a fish would do. I can cut little slivers, but they might still be too large. 

They sometimes will store food they dont eat,other times they will throw it out when done,mine throws it out usually. Just cut the pieces very small so they are easy for it to handle and eat. If its big they will find a way to eat it still just a bit more a challenge. 

[TatorTaco]

Day 10 and I found him out in the open...still on his back with his little legs flapping around.  😞

 

I wasn't aware these molts were so long and so severe.  That I'm aware of, he still hasn't eaten either.  2 cerith snails and 2 hermits have been added.  I've been ghost feeding the tank so the CUC don't perish.  

 

Anything I should be expecting or looking out for? 

[EthanPhillyCheesesteak]

On 6/10/2019 at 9:18 AM, TatorTaco said:

Day 10 and I found him out in the open...still on his back with his little legs flapping around.  😞

 

I wasn't aware these molts were so long and so severe.  That I'm aware of, he still hasn't eaten either.  2 cerith snails and 2 hermits have been added.  I've been ghost feeding the tank so the CUC don't perish.  

 

Anything I should be expecting or looking out for? 

Wow, I didn’t think that I could possibly be having the same problem. I have a crab who is named Jerry who seems to be having the same exact problem as your mantis. I added him to the tank and he was fine for a day then it’s like he went into shock or something. I transferred him to my main tank and he has been in there for like 4 or 5 days with no change. I tried to feed him mysis and he won’t even try to grab it. He is very slow moving, just slowly moves his arms up and down, but never moves his legs. He has been in the same spot for the past 4 or 5 days. He lost 3 legs also, I don’t know why or how either. And he keeps flipping on his back and just laying upside down. I have to upright him when I see him like that, bc he won’t try to fix himself. I’m hoping he may come around. I hope yours will come around too.

[pgrVII]

On 6/10/2019 at 9:18 AM, TatorTaco said:

Day 10 and I found him out in the open...still on his back with his little legs flapping around.  😞

 

I wasn't aware these molts were so long and so severe.  That I'm aware of, he still hasn't eaten either.  2 cerith snails and 2 hermits have been added.  I've been ghost feeding the tank so the CUC don't perish.  

 

Anything I should be expecting or looking out for? 

Jables buried himself in the "bedroom" area of his cave for about 5 days before I saw him,and then he stayed in the cave for a day or 2 while he was getting stronger. Molts are a difficult process for Mantis as they have quite a complex armor system.

[EthanPhillyCheesesteak]

14 minutes ago, pgrVII said:

Jables buried himself in the "bedroom" area of his cave for about 5 days before I saw him,and then he stayed in the cave for a day or 2 while he was getting stronger. Molts are a difficult process for Mantis as they have quite a complex armor system.

Can crabs have a difficult molt? Bc jerry has lost 3 legs and I’m hoping that it’s bc he’s trying to molt. Everything else in the tank is molting fine. If he molts, will the lest grow back?

[pgrVII]

53 minutes ago, EthanPhillyCheesesteak said:

Can crabs have a difficult molt? Bc jerry has lost 3 legs and I’m hoping that it’s bc he’s trying to molt. Everything else in the tank is molting fine. If he molts, will the lest grow back?

Crabs typically molt quickly over night,in my exp.anyway.

[EthanPhillyCheesesteak]

Just now, pgrVII said:

Crabs typically molt quickly over night,in my exp.anyway.

Hm, I don’t know why mines acting like this then. Mine has all the same symptoms of his mantis 

[Tamberav]

1 minute ago, EthanPhillyCheesesteak said:

Hm, I don’t know why mines acting like this then. Mine has all the same symptoms of his mantis 

 

You drip acclimated him to prevent swings only to drop the salinity in one go.

 

Stability. Stability. Stability.

 

I am fairly certain it was the swing.

[EthanPhillyCheesesteak]

16 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

 

You drip acclimated him to prevent swings only to drop the salinity in one go.

 

Stability. Stability. Stability.

 

I am fairly certain it was the swing.

It happened before the swing

[EthanPhillyCheesesteak]

I changed the water after I saw him acting funny. The water was at 1.026, it dropped to 1.024. It wasn’t a super far drop

I changed the water after I saw him acting funny. The water was at 1.026, it dropped to 1.024. It wasn’t a super far drop

[Tamberav]

10 minutes ago, EthanPhillyCheesesteak said:

I changed the water after I saw him acting funny. The water was at 1.026, it dropped to 1.024. It wasn’t a super far drop

I changed the water after I saw him acting funny. The water was at 1.026, it dropped to 1.024. It wasn’t a super far drop

Sorry, I misunderstood your previous post. My bad then, but I would consider that a significant drop for things like shrimp and crabs. Not fish or corals. 

 

🙏for Jerry

[EthanPhillyCheesesteak]

1 minute ago, Tamberav said:

Sorry, I misunderstood your previous post. My bad then, but I would consider that a significant drop for things like shrimp and crabs. Not fish or corals. 

 

🙏for Jerry

Also 🙏 for Jerry. But bc it happened before the swing, what could it be from? Bc it sounds like all the same symptoms as the ops mantis shrimp. 

[EthanPhillyCheesesteak]

I look at him close up and I can still see his mouth moving normally (fast like most crabs) and his breathing is normal. But he can’t move the rest of his body very well. Last night when I picked him up to upright him bc he was on his back was the fastest I’ve seen him move. He moved his right claw kinda fast as if trying to say that he wanted to be left alone.

[Tamberav]

6 minutes ago, EthanPhillyCheesesteak said:

Also 🙏 for Jerry. But bc it happened before the swing, what could it be from? Bc it sounds like all the same symptoms as the ops mantis shrimp. 

No idea, I have seen previous mantis I had lay on their back and be weird when stressed. I know molting is a very difficult process, especially for mantis shrimp and it doesn't always go well. 😞

 

 

3 minutes ago, EthanPhillyCheesesteak said:

I look at him close up and I can still see his mouth moving normally (fast like most crabs) and his breathing is normal. But he can’t move the rest of his body very well. Last night when I picked him up to upright him bc he was on his back was the fastest I’ve seen him move. He moved his right claw kinda fast as if trying to say that he wanted to be left alone.

Maybe that is a good sign and he can recover, I hope so 🙏 I don't think there is anything you can do for him but what you are already doing.

 

 

[EthanPhillyCheesesteak]

7 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

No idea, I have seen previous mantis I had lay on their back and be weird when stressed. I know molting is a very difficult process, especially for mantis shrimp and it doesn't always go well. 😞

 

 

Maybe that is a good sign and he can recover, I hope so 🙏 I don't think there is anything you can do for him but what you are already doing.

 

 

Yea, all I can do is reduce his stress and feed him

[TatorTaco]

Well, RIP mantis dude. 

 

Im not sure if I’m willing to try a mantis again. That was an expensive loss and I never got to enjoy him. Also, I’m not sure I learned anything from it’s passing, or how to prevent it from happening again. 

 

😞