Seabass's Banggai Cardinalfish Nursery

[yoshii]

So cool to watch them grow 🙂

 

How many more batches will you raise? Soon your house will be filled with cardinal tanks haha

[seabass]

1 hour ago, yoshii said:

Soon your house will be filled with cardinal tanks haha

I hear you.  I've thought about that too.   I'm thinking that separation might be required to minimize offspring (I can't bring myself to just letting them die).  Maybe I need a frag tank to house the male until I get rid of the current batch.

[Ccarlson]

Seabass, Congratulations! Bangaii cardinals are one of my most favorite fish, I bred them for a time and as such they have a very special place in my heart. It looks like you are well on the way! 

This is all by way of you are doing an EXCELLENT job - here are a few little things that I picked up along the way that might help you on your journey. 

 

Enriching the mysis with Slecon (I believe there used to be a product called Super Selcon or Selcon Plus) that also had garlic extract in it. That garlic was the ticket for spurring my finicky/picky eaters to feed. You might want to try to soak your shaved mysis with some shaved garlic and then just pick it out out before you feed.  The Selcon was also the key on the SFS in both the female and the fry. 

As you've figured out, you may want to separate your male a to allow him to fatten back up a little before holding eggs again. But, when it comes time to reintroduce them - be very careful. If you're able to figure out some kind of divider system that allows them to see each other, that is probably best. As male bangaiis get older, they get a bit more agressive and will beat up on the female during the re-pairing and courtship. 

Also, another thing to consider is manually stripping the eggs from the male after a certain date. When I bred them (this is 6+ years ago) I made a J-A-N-K-Y upweller because my male kept eating the eggs.   I couldn't find anything else to fit the bill so what I made was  out of a 20oz soda bottle, a tiny powerhead and plastic canvas. It wasnt the best, but it did the trick.   I think there is a product on the market now (I *think* its made by Serra? that alot of Cichlid keepers are using to hatch out their fry from mouthbrooding cichlids) 

 

 

Keep on keeping on, Seabass! Ill be following your thread but feel free to reach out if you have any questions! 
 

 

[seabass]

Wow, thanks Ccarlson!  The pics of the eggs are crazy.  I appreciate the info and insight.

[seabass]

The polyurethane on the 40 breeder stand is dry, and I'm trying to prep some rock for this tank.  Still no babies.  The longer it takes, the more prepared I'll be.

 

Also, I spoke with one of my local fish stores.  They seemed interested in the juveniles as they get older (I suggested at 5 months).  It wasn't the owner, so I didn't ask about compensation just yet.

[seabass]

@Ccarlson, what is your experience with moving the juveniles?  The current batch of 16 (in a 20L) is about two months old, with no losses.  Their tank still seems big enough; but they've grown quickly.  What size tank did you use to raise your juveniles?

 

I've setup a 40B with the intention of moving the young fish into it (and using the 20L as a nursery for the upcoming batch).  I'm a bit worried about stressing them, given my experience with the first batch experiencing sudden fright syndrome (SFS).  Although, with that batch, even the slightest disturbance (like placing a cup in the water) could cause multiple fish to go into SFS.  There have been no problems with this batch yet.  Did you experience any issues with transferring two month old fish to another tank?

 

It's nice to have someone with experience following along.  Thanks.

[Ccarlson]

Seabass, I moved them from the spot that they hatched and had a few weeks grow out in to the actual growout tank by using one of the extra large clear plastic dip and pours.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/dip-and-pour-multi-purpose-container-tom-s-aquatics.html

That being said, all of my fry/juvs were on SELCON/HUFAs from the jump after batch one. Never had a problem with moving them with the dip and pour. I would say move slow and careful. I would hate to advise you of something that worked for me, and then have you lose fish over it. 

 

 

[seabass]

52 minutes ago, Ccarlson said:

I would hate to advise you of something that worked for me, and then have you lose fish over it.

I totally get this.  But I appreciate you sharing your experience with us here.  My method of raising these juveniles will no doubt differ some from yours (and potentially affect the results).

 

1 hour ago, Ccarlson said:

That being said, all of my fry/juvs were on SELCON/HUFAs from the jump after batch one.

Out of curiosity, did you just soak your food in Selcon (then drain) prior to feeding?  Also, if you don't mind, what food were you feeding them?

[Ccarlson]

21 minutes ago, seabass said:

Out of curiosity, did you just soak your food in Selcon (then drain) prior to feeding?  Also, if you don't mind, what food were you feeding them?

Yes, I soaked my food in Selcon and then drained. I soaked it for a good long time too (at LEAST an hour in the fridge) When they were big enough I was using chopped/shaved PE Mysis. 

When they were freshly hatched, I fed them decapsulated artemia (I was also raising H. Erectus seahorses at the time, so I had the artemia going anyways) I tried to "soak" those in selcon as well before I fed (by just adding it to a little cup of water with BBS in it). It totally fouled the artemias water and I cant say weather or not it effected anything with the foodstock itself. 

 

[seabass]

Still no new babies.  But I have the new 40B setup for the juveniles:

 

In addition, I might substitute the live rock and/or sponge filter from the current 20L.

[seabass]

Here's a quick video of the father holding the babies:

 

[seabass]

💩... there are babies in the overflow!

 

 

That's actually where I've grown to expect them.  It's actually a nice sanctuary until I can transfer them.  Too bad I can't mess with them just now.

[seabass]

Yesterday, I moved the 16 juveniles into their new 40B.  The transfer went without incident.  First, I removed the rock and equipment (along with some water).  They kind of huddled together in the corner.  I used a food dispenser with handle (without the lid on) to collect them.

I placed the container against the back wall and bottom of the tank and used a brine shrimp net to guide them into the container.  While I was able to capture multiple fish each time, I didn't attempt to move them all at once.  They didn't seem especially stressed out about the transfer.

 

After rinsing it thoroughly in saltwater, I moved their foam filter to this tank.  I'm not 100% sure how much of a biofilter is established on the new rock (even though it is easily 3 times as large as their previous rock).  I figured this filter should help.  An Ammonia Alert Badge will assist in monitoring levels.

 

I cleaned their 20 gallon tank and filled it with new, heated water.  There were only 3 babies in the overflow, which I moved into the 20 gallon nursery.  I even fed a little frozen Cyclops, which a couple appeared to eat.  I'll have to monitor this more closely to see if I can skip the decapsulated brine shrimp eggs.

 

The father is still not eating, so I expect more babies this morning.  I'm not sure if I lost any (to the other fish or the sump), but I was expecting more.  Hopefully there will be a dozen or so in the morning.

[Ccarlson]

If you have a large net, with really fine mesh - you can pull the male and flush any left over fry out of his mouth if needed. I did so with a transfer pipette with eggs/partially developed fry and didn't have much issue. 

 

He may also just spit whatever else is in there once he realizes hes netted too, my tilapia would do that frequently when I was raising them. 

[seabass]

Thanks Ccarlson, I'll have to consider getting a large brine shrimp net for the future.

 

However, that's it for this batch.  The father is eating again, so no more babies.  I transferred two more babies from the overflow to the nursery (so five in total).  The difference in size between this and the last batch (about 2 months apart in age) is striking.  I'll try to get some pics and/or a video up soon.

[seabass]

 

[seabass]

The new batch:

[seabass]

The little ones are still spitting out the cyclops.  However, they will eat decapsulated brine shrimp eggs.  I'm not bothering to hatch them.

[seabass]

 

[seabass]

Zero total losses from the batch of 2 month olds.  Unfortunately, I lost one of the newest babies.  I assume the Nassarius snails took care of it.  Last night I noticed that one of the babies wasn't eating.  As a note, I'm not hatching baby brine shrimp (BBS).  However, I'm decapsulating brine shrimp eggs, and feeding those.  I decapsulate the eggs by:

• soaking the eggs in tap water for at least an hour
• then adding enough bleach to the water to make it a 1:2 ratio of bleach to tap water (or 50ml of bleach to 100ml of tap water)
• let the eggs soak in the bleach (preferably, stirring occasionally) for 8 minutes (the eggs should now be an orangish color)
• drain the eggs using a 53 micron plankton sieve
• gently rinse the eggs (in the sieve) with tap water to dechlorinate (I also pour some tap water with Prime, to further dechlorinate)
• invert the sieve and use tank water to rinse the eggs into another container
• feed the eggs to the young cardinalfish

I'm not really sure if the one baby required the stimulus of a live baby brine shrimp or if something else caused its death.  However, the remaining four seem to be eating the decapsulated eggs.  I'm eager to get them on cyclops; however, they are currently refusing it.

[This guy is extra salty]

Now i want a shoal

[seabass]

Here's the latest video.  The babies are swimming with baby brine shrimp which have hatched in the tank (not a hatchery).  I might need to filter them out as they quickly become deficient in nutrients.

 

[seabass]

The father is holding more eggs.

[Elizabeth94]

Why are they so tiny and cute!? They look active and healthy. You are clearly doing a great job raising them. 

[debbeach13]

Jeez I hope he ate in between. Very exciting I wonder if the last batch being smaller made them try gain so fast.