Seabass's Banggai Cardinalfish Nursery

[debbeach13]

Thanks for sharing. Raising fry seems like such a huge undertaking. I salute all of you that try. 

[seabass]

Wow, so today I walked up to the tank and a shoal of babies swam up towards the top front, signaling they wanted food.

 

I fed them some frozen Ocean Nutrition Cyclops, and they actually ate some.  A few of the fish ate more than the others.  But once you get a couple eating something, a few others join in so as not to miss out.  I think it's a good sign.  I'm going to feed them some BBS tonight, but keep feeding the Cyclops to get them used to a varied diet.  I have a feeling that the Cyclops is a more nutritious meal.

[This guy is extra salty]

On 6/10/2019 at 7:40 AM, seabass said:

I've been shooting for two; but I know that's very low.  I should probably bump that to three.  I may have to change my light schedule to accommodate a different feeding schedule.  IDK, maybe I need a PJ reefs Magnetic Feeder.  Hmm... just thinking out lout now.  Maybe I'll get a magnetic Artemia feeder in addition to enriching stage 2 BBS (fed a couple of times a day).

 

I don't believe the problem has been not enough food, because the babies grew quickly and looked very plump.  I think the biggest problem was the quality of the the food.  Previously I fed BBS to the point where there were always more than they could eat.  I suppose this resulted in having Artemia that were neither enriched, nor had a nutritious egg sac.

I can add a magnet lol

[yoshii]

4 hours ago, seabass said:

Wow, so today I walked up to the tank and a shoal of babies swam up towards the top front, signaling they wanted food.

 

I fed them some frozen Ocean Nutrition Cyclops, and they actually ate some.  A few of the fish ate more than the others.  But once you get a couple eating something, a few others join in so as not to miss out.  I think it's a good sign.  I'm going to feed them some BBS tonight, but keep feeding the Cyclops to get them used to a varied diet.  I have a feeling that the Cyclops is a more nutritious meal.

Great news! Hopefully they continue to do well

[debbeach13]

Happy Dance!

[seabass]

[seabass]

I'm pleased to report that the babies seem to be happily accepting the frozen cyclops.  So I've put away the shrimp hatchery for the time being.  This is good news for both me and the little ones.

 

There are 16.  So far, no losses.

 

The tank is due for a water change.  Maybe this weekend.

[WV Reefer]

10 minutes ago, seabass said:

I'm pleased to report that the babies seem to be happily accepting the frozen cyclops.  So I've put away the shrimp hatchery for the time being.  This is good news for both me and the little ones.

 

There are 16.  So far, no losses.

 

The tank is due for a water change.  Maybe this weekend.

That’s great news!! 😃

[Daniel91]

Magnificent 

 

[debbeach13]

They are so dam cute. I would have a hard time not sitting in front of the tank and watching them all day.

[seabass]

2 hours ago, debbeach13 said:

They are so dam cute. I would have a hard time not sitting in front of the tank and watching them all day.

Here you go:

 

You might have also noticed that I also added some nassarius snails, to help cleanup uneaten food.

[debbeach13]

Exactly!

[seabass]

The baby fish are aggressively feeding on the frozen Ocean Nutrition Cyclops (no more BBS or decapsulated brine shrimp eggs).  They all come to the top front of the tank whenever I enter the room, and always seem willing to eat.  I may try some other foods, as my adults are super finicky (primarily wanting frozen mysis).  It'd be nice to get them eating a wider variety of food.

 

These babies are much more confident and swim stronger than the first batch.  They are always out and about; and so far, no losses.  I expect to be able to raise all 16.  I've been researching the best ways to ship the little guys once they are old enough (I figure somewhere around 5 months old).

 

I've kept the flow higher this time than the first, but it's still on the gentle side.  I figure it's not much more than 75gph in the 20 gallon tank.  I may up it a little more as they grow older.  I still haven't done a water change, which is way overdue.

[Wonderboy]

That's really awesome! Great job witht the feedings! I want one of your TLC raised cardinalfish BTW.

[seabass]

I was trying to check just how nutritious frozen cyclops are, seeing that the babies love them.  They are a common freshwater copepod.  I have read where people feed them to marine species and haven't seen any warnings about poor nutritional value.  Still, I'd like to feed the babies something with a higher fat content.

 

I have some San Francisco Bay frozen Reef Plankton which I'm trying to transition them to.  It's also significantly larger than cyclops (but much smaller than mysis).  I believe the babies are large enough to eat them.  My first attempt was spit out.  For my second attempt tonight, I mixed it with some cyclops.  It was kind of difficult to tell for sure, but I believe they ate some of the Reef Plankton.

[seabass]

Unfortunately, they continue to spit out the Reef Plankton.  I'm not sure if that's going to be a problem yet.  I might try cutting up some mysis.

 

I did do a partial water change yesterday.  It went issue free.

 

Edit: I just shaved some frozen mysis.  A few pieces were still too big, so I ended up sifting it through a typical fish net (to remove the larger pieces, which I simply dumped into another tank).  The babies ate it (although not enthusiastically).  I feel that this is going to work out well.  Now I'm not worried about these guys getting some quality food.

[Christopher Marks]

That’s great news @seabass! I admire your dedication and problem solving. Glad  they’re still eating 🙂 

[seabass]

Some of the little buggers still won't take to mysis.  I keep trying, and some of them do eat some; however, others just spit it back out.  Nobody seems to want to eat the Reef Plankton (well my chalk bass do).

 

I've seen no signs of sudden fright syndrome (SFS), and ammonia levels have stayed in check.  I just wish they'd all eat something other than water fleas.  Although, I suspect the cyclops are more nutritious than non-enriched brine shrimp.

[mcarroll]

First off, thank you for this thread!   Inspirational!!  Kudos!  🙂 

On 6/8/2019 at 2:04 AM, seabass said:

So I think I just figured out why I had problems with my first batch of Banggai Cardinalfish (BC) babies.  The lack of fatty acids in baby brine shrimp (BBS), which aren't a true marine species, causes sudden fright syndrome (SFS).  That, and the fact that I had a small ammonia spike from over feeding, which I didn't immediately catch.

 

I guess the key is to enrich the shrimp.  In this effort, I will setup a second brine shrimp hatchery.  Then add Selcon and live phytoplankton to the hatch water.  I hope to get this down pat.  I've read they should be on live BBS for the first month before switching to frozen foods.

If you still have any interest in pursuing brine shrimp, read everything you can find by Dr. Patrick Sorgeloos (if you haven't already).  His research is behind the Instant Baby Brine Shrimp (IBBS) product from Ocean Nutrition if my understanding is correct.  Lots of his stuff was accessible via Google Scholar last time I looked.  I have several articles on the topic featured on my blog if you/anyone wants a starting point:  https://reefsuccess.com/?s=artemia

 

On 6/9/2019 at 9:39 PM, seabass said:

A fun fact, but also a hurdle, is that baby brine are born without mouths.  Therefore, you cannot really enrich (or gut load) them.  It's only after their egg sac is depleted, and after their first molt, that they have mouths and can finally be enriched.  After hatching, it may take 12 hours for the shrimp nauplii to reach this stage.

 

It is recommended that you start enriching the BBS six hours after hatching, and harvest them for feeding 14 hours after hatching.  I almost think that I should be culturing phyto fed pods instead.  I know my first batch of cardinalfish babies experienced sudden fright syndrome, which is caused by lack of HUFAs (Highly Unsaturated Fatty Acids).  So I know I have to improve their diets.

(Maybe you are already reading Sorgeloos? :D) 

 

You're right that IBBS is as good as brine shrimp ever get on their own....especially for our application.  

 

Either setting up a better brine shrimp factory (to smoothly, easily produce enriched brine) or using an alternate feed like pods both sound like good ideas.  🙂 

 

Semi-related: Have you seen Reef Nutrition's culture system?   Comes in the form of a couple different kits.  Not a bad price, and full of good ideas.  🙂 

Compact Culture System

On 6/14/2019 at 9:03 AM, seabass said:

Here you go:

 

You might have also noticed that I also added some nassarius snails, to help cleanup uneaten food.

👏

Love it!  Keep up the good work!

[seabass]

Here's a helpful and interesting site, with journals and summaries from people breeding Banggai cardinals: http://mbisite.org/Search.aspx?q=Pterapogon kauderni

 

[seabass]

I'm feeding more and more shaved mysis.

[ef4life]

1 hour ago, seabass said:

I'm feeding more and more shaved mysis.

Looks like a squadron of tiny fighter jets to me 

[seabass]

Shaved mysis:

[Tamberav]

My LFS had babies of these guys ..Soo cute! I wanted two but they hadn't paired off yet.  

[seabass]

3 hours ago, Tamberav said:

I wanted two but they hadn't paired off yet.

I believe they start to pair off at about a year; however, they are often sold as young as 6 months old.