Seabass's Banggai Cardinalfish Nursery

[seabass]

He did eat well in between.  But that wasn't a very long stretch of time.  I'm wondering if the last batch being small was due to the father swallowing some for food.

[debbeach13]

I hadn't thought of that but it seems like a real possibility. When the time comes will you combine the 2 previous batches to free up the nursery?

[seabass]

28 minutes ago, debbeach13 said:

When the time comes will you combine the 2 previous batches to free up the nursery?

That's a good question.  I'm hesitant to mix ages as aggression seems to continue to amp up (not to mention the different sizes and types of food).  I can't really see combining them.

 

Since each batch is released about 2 months apart, if I were to really do this right, I'd have 3 nurseries (selling the ~6 month olds and freeing up a tank for another batch).  As it stands now, I only have two nurseries.  However, the juveniles are looking very good and probably could eat regular mysis (although I've still been shaving it for them).  I'll have to look into just how soon I can sell them.  Maybe I can sell them in a month when the next batch is due.

[debbeach13]

A lot to think about. Was the first batch hatched in May? Your local store did say they would be interested didn't they? Did they say 6 months old? Do you even have room or interest in another set up? What about a old fashioned tank divider?

[A.m.P]

1 hour ago, debbeach13 said:

A lot to think about. Was the first batch hatched in May? Your local store did say they would be interested didn't they? Did they say 6 months old? Do you even have room or interest in another set up? What about a old fashioned tank divider?

I was just thinking about the good-ol' eggcrate "tank", though I imagine with fry that's a bit harder than adults, maybe sink a mosquito-netting barrier or an acrylic sheet with a foam-filtered overflow?

[seabass]

59 minutes ago, debbeach13 said:

Do you even have room or interest in another set up?

I really don't wish to get in the business of raising cardinalfish.  Plus, I haven't really worked out plans for their care when I'm out of town.  It's a bit of work... that I'm willing to do short term.  I'm seriously considering separating the breeding pair.  However, I'm concerned about reuniting them down the road.  A breeder box in their tank isn't ideal (and doesn't seem fair to the confined fish).

 

Another nursery tank is a possibility, but I'd prefer not to set one up at this time.  Time requirements feel like they're getting to be a bit much as is.  This was never in my reefing plans; although it's quite interesting and rewarding (especially since these fish are supposedly threatened in the wild).

 

1 hour ago, debbeach13 said:

What about a old fashioned tank divider?

That's actually a very good idea for these particular circumstances.  I'll consider it.  However, the bio-load is fairly large as is with all the fish and all the feedings.  I'm not 100% confident in doubling that up.  As usual, things like this always seem to pop up when you don't have a lot of time to deal with them.

 

9 minutes ago, Amphrites said:

I was just thinking about the good-ol' eggcrate "tank", though I imagine with fry that's a bit harder than adults, maybe sink a mosquito-netting barrier or an acrylic sheet with a foam-filtered overflow?

Hmm... yeah, maybe.

 

 

Thanks @debbeach13 and @Amphrites for the suggestions!

[A.m.P]

Wish I could be more specific lol, I know the freshwater breeders use that craft-supply white (I think it's for knitting or something like that?) plastic to allow really small fry to naturally-separate from their parents, otherwise mosquito netting does allow flow through and should be small enough and soft enough to keep fry from hurting themselves (hopefully I've no experience with anything that small). And I know some breeders set up in-tank basket and the like with foam-blocked overflows to rear-fry, so I don't see why the same couldn't be done with a linear-flow style tank or with a filter on each side, you could actually just turn one tank into two and have totally-independent water-volumes or allow things to overflow between the two, I have no idea which would work better lol...
Perhaps you could rear the tiniest fry in floated tupperware with a cutout or two on the sides for a foam block to keep them in and allow water exchange? Ebay is full of floating fry traps and boxes you could probably retrofit. Come to think of it I think some are essentially just mosquito-netting on a plastic-frame lol...

[debbeach13]

Any updates? 

[Ratvan]

On 8/15/2019 at 6:32 PM, Amphrites said:

Wish I could be more specific lol, I know the freshwater breeders use that craft-supply white (I think it's for knitting or something like that?) plastic to allow really small fry to naturally-separate from their parents, otherwise mosquito netting does allow flow through and should be small enough and soft enough to keep fry from hurting themselves (hopefully I've no experience with anything that small). And I know some breeders set up in-tank basket and the like with foam-blocked overflows to rear-fry, so I don't see why the same couldn't be done with a linear-flow style tank or with a filter on each side, you could actually just turn one tank into two and have totally-independent water-volumes or allow things to overflow between the two, I have no idea which would work better lol...
Perhaps you could rear the tiniest fry in floated tupperware with a cutout or two on the sides for a foam block to keep them in and allow water exchange? Ebay is full of floating fry traps and boxes you could probably retrofit. Come to think of it I think some are essentially just mosquito-netting on a plastic-frame lol...

Dividers are usually made of EggCrate for strength with some craft mesh on either side to allow water and fry movement, well thats how i done them in the past

[seabass]

5 hours ago, debbeach13 said:

Any updates? 

Life's been busy so not much is new with the cardinalfish.  I've done a series of water changes in the juvenile tank (as it had developed a cyano bloom).  I'll try to post some pics and/or video soon.

 

I suspect that the newest batch will be released soon.  However, I'm not ready for them (no tank or bio-media ready for them).  I suppose a tank divider is my best option at this point.

 

I feel the juveniles are almost ready to sell.  My LFS has continued to express interest in them; I just need to contact their main fish guy.

[debbeach13]

That all sounds pretty good. I hope things stay that way. Thanks for the reply. I know your probably busy.

[seabass]

I purchased an external breeder box for the new babies.

 

However, the male started eating again last night, but I haven't noticed any babies yet.  I'll do some more searching, but I believe he must have eaten them.  You can't blame him, he's been holding several batches of eggs, and can't have much fat reserves left.

[seabass]

So almost unbelievably, this last weekend, the male stopped eating again.  I don't really wish to separate them.  I also figure they are getting close to the end of a breeding pair's lifespan.

 

The group of five, younger babies, has dwindled down to one.  None of them would feed on anything be hatched brine shrimp.  It's very disappointing.  My thought is that, in a larger group, you have certain individuals which are more adventurous than the others; and are more likely to try alternate foods (leading the way for others to follow along).  My other thought is that the introduction of live food makes it harder to ween them onto prepared or frozen foods.  IDK.

 

Anyway, here are pics of the lone baby, and some of the (I believe, 14) juveniles:

 

The Juveniles eat regular frozen mysis and should be ready for sale.  I'll have to get hold of my contact and see if they can take them.

 

[seabass]

[mcarroll]

On 9/25/2019 at 2:59 PM, seabass said:

My thought is that, in a larger group, you have certain individuals which are more adventurous than the others; and are more likely to try alternate foods (leading the way for others to follow along).

Seems like a natural variance...in the wild only the ones that can compete well would survive.  The rest would become lunch in a hurry.

[A.m.P]

Fish in the wild tend to either feed alone or in massive groups lol, it's no wonder when a few by themselves are skittish, being less interested in food could help keep them alive but its' most likely just a response to a lack of dither fish and the assumption of a predator.
/Shrug animals are weird and evolution is blind, ineffective, inefficient, and utterly-mindlessly-stupid lol...

[seabass]

On 9/25/2019 at 1:59 PM, seabass said:

So almost unbelievably, this last weekend, the male stopped eating again.

Just a few days later, the male started eating again.  Either the eggs weren't viable, or the male ate them because he was just too thin to fast for another month.

 

If I were an actual breeder, I'd likely do things differently.  However, my motivation is simply to save as many of the resulting babies as I can.

[Ratvan]

23 minutes ago, seabass said:

Just a few days later, the male started eating again.  Either the eggs weren't viable, or the male ate them because he was just too thin to fast for another month.

 

If I were an actual breeder, I'd likely do things differently.  However, my motivation is simply to save as many of the resulting babies as I can.

So how often have these been brooding? Is that the correct term?

[seabass]

I believe it's been roughly 2 months apart.  So the male holds the eggs/babies for a month, then feeds for a month (and repeat).  I really should have kept a better log.  This thread is the only record that I have.

[seabass]

Here are the 14 juvenile Banggai cardinalfish today:

 

[debbeach13]

Don't you just love them. So cute

[seabass]

3 hours ago, debbeach13 said:

Don't you just love them. So cute

I do love them.  But now I'm getting ready to get rid of them.  Too bad I can't keep them all together in this tank, but some will pair up and become aggressive.

[debbeach13]

I agree. Love them and sell them. Besides your pair might have more.

[Ratvan]

I'd happily take a pair 😄

[Hannahhhh]

I would be psyched to buy a pair if you can sex them at a young age! I’m dying for a little male and female!