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HingleMcCringleberry

Quarantining questions

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HingleMcCringleberry

I had velvet in my tank so I took all the fish out and am quarantining them in copper. I know you’re supposed to let the parasite starve by leaving fish out of the tank for like 6 weeks. But how long until the fish themselves have no parasites. Shouldn’t the copper kill off the velvet quickly. At least within one lifecycle at most I would think. I don’t want to keep my fish in copper any longer than I have to. There’s a few fish that I know are particularly sensitive and stressed by it. So how long until the copper has definitely killed the parasite. Just ich or velvet. Idk about any other parasites. 

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seabass

According to this article about marine velvet treatment, Chloroquine Phosphate (or alternatively, copper) treatment should last one month.  Note, in this article, they used dips in addition to CP.

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HingleMcCringleberry
24 minutes ago, seabass said:

According to this article about marine velvet treatment, Chloroquine Phosphate (or alternatively, copper) treatment should last one month.  Note, in this article, they used dips in addition to CP.

Wow. That was an amazing read! Especially the concerning bit about how velvet and copper can spread by air!  Not good for me because I can’t move my tanks very far apart. 

 

I’m also glad it addressed my intuition that velvet ought to be dead within days and not many weeks. Definitely gonna remove the fish from copper after 2 weeks and put them in a holding tank if possible. 

 

Im left with a few questions though.

 

why shouldn’t I do any water changes for a month? I make sure the concentration of copper and other meds in the new water is the same as what’s already in the quarantine. I’ve been doing water changes every two days...

 

how long can the velvet survive from just the lights in my display tank. That also gave me some concern because there’s some light loving corals and anemones in there that I don’t want to starve. But if I’m keeping velvet alive by keeping the lights on then idk what to do. 

 

Finally, and quite importantly, how long can velvet survive without water? My 75 gallon display tank was set up using the contents of my 20 gallon tank I took down. The velvet was in that 20 gallon but it’s been dry for several weeks now. In two weeks I’d like to use it as a holding tank to observe the fish without copper.

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Clown79
12 hours ago, HingleMcCringleberry said:

Wow. That was an amazing read! Especially the concerning bit about how velvet and copper can spread by air!  Not good for me because I can’t move my tanks very far apart. 

 

I’m also glad it addressed my intuition that velvet ought to be dead within days and not many weeks. Definitely gonna remove the fish from copper after 2 weeks and put them in a holding tank if possible. 

 

Im left with a few questions though.

 

why shouldn’t I do any water changes for a month? I make sure the concentration of copper and other meds in the new water is the same as what’s already in the quarantine. I’ve been doing water changes every two days...

 

how long can the velvet survive from just the lights in my display tank. That also gave me some concern because there’s some light loving corals and anemones in there that I don’t want to starve. But if I’m keeping velvet alive by keeping the lights on then idk what to do. 

 

Finally, and quite importantly, how long can velvet survive without water? My 75 gallon display tank was set up using the contents of my 20 gallon tank I took down. The velvet was in that 20 gallon but it’s been dry for several weeks now. In two weeks I’d like to use it as a holding tank to observe the fish without copper.

Velvet and ich require the display tank to go fishless for minimum 8weeks.

The lights don't need to be turned off. The parasite lives off a host(fish only)

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EthanPhillyCheesesteak
17 hours ago, HingleMcCringleberry said:

Wow. That was an amazing read! Especially the concerning bit about how velvet and copper can spread by air!  Not good for me because I can’t move my tanks very far apart. 

 

I’m also glad it addressed my intuition that velvet ought to be dead within days and not many weeks. Definitely gonna remove the fish from copper after 2 weeks and put them in a holding tank if possible. 

 

Im left with a few questions though.

 

why shouldn’t I do any water changes for a month? I make sure the concentration of copper and other meds in the new water is the same as what’s already in the quarantine. I’ve been doing water changes every two days...

 

how long can the velvet survive from just the lights in my display tank. That also gave me some concern because there’s some light loving corals and anemones in there that I don’t want to starve. But if I’m keeping velvet alive by keeping the lights on then idk what to do. 

 

Finally, and quite importantly, how long can velvet survive without water? My 75 gallon display tank was set up using the contents of my 20 gallon tank I took down. The velvet was in that 20 gallon but it’s been dry for several weeks now. In two weeks I’d like to use it as a holding tank to observe the fish without copper.

Sounds like your having quite of a rough time right now. Your dealing with velvet and ich at the same time? How did that even happen? How’d both diseases get introduced into your system?

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HingleMcCringleberry
1 hour ago, EthanPhillyCheesesteak said:

Sounds like your having quite of a rough time right now. Your dealing with velvet and ich at the same time? How did that even happen? How’d both diseases get introduced into your system?

I have two systems and a quarantine tank. I had a 20 gallon tank and was in the process of finding a 75 gallon on Craigslist for sale. I got excited about the new possibilities for fish in a 75 and when I was buying salt at petco I couldn’t resist picking up a healthy looking baby hippo tang and dropped it in my 20 gallon. It broke out in velvet and I rapidly purchase and set up a quarantine tank. I put it in quarantine with copper. At almost exactly the same time I got my 75 and transferred the contents of the 20 gallon into it. I took the opportunity to remove all the fish that had been in the 20 gallon and go fallow in the 75. The 75 I bought also came with fish. 

 

I also have a 30 gallon tank that is fully stocked. I wasn’t quarantining fish when I added them but luckily never had any sign of disease. One of the fish the 75 came with was another tiny hippo tang. Unlike the other fish from the 75 he was extremely skinny and didn’t seem hardy enough to endure copper treatment so I put it in the only available tank. The 30 gallon. And it immediately broke out in ich. Soon my other fish followed. So I dosed the 30 with reef safe treatments to make it easier for the fish to fight the parasite and fresh water dipped the baby hippo and the rabbitfish every other day.  In the end, all the fish in the 30 made it and seem be be resistant to the ich now. 

 

Meanwhile Le all the fish in the quarantine tank slowly died. Every week or so. One of them would break out in velvet. I thought the copper was at the right dose since I followed the instructions on the bottle to a T. But it wasn’t until I bought a test kit about a week ago that I realized the levels were somehow well below therapeutic levels. Since then I have upped the copper and had no signs of illness in either tank.

 

and that’s just a synopsis of my foolish escapades. 

 

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HingleMcCringleberry
4 hours ago, EthanPhillyCheesesteak said:

Sounds like your having quite of a rough time right now. Your dealing with velvet and ich at the same time? How did that even happen? How’d both diseases get introduced into your system?

 

9 hours ago, Clown79 said:

Velvet and ich require the display tank to go fishless for minimum 8weeks.

The lights don't need to be turned off. The parasite lives off a host(fish only)

 

21 hours ago, seabass said:

According to this article about marine velvet treatment, Chloroquine Phosphate (or alternatively, copper) treatment should last one month.  Note, in this article, they used dips in addition to CP.

I have another completely different question. How can I reduce ammonia in a quarantine tank. I know you’re not supposed to have substrate in a hospital tank. And I don’t know if medications like the ones I’m using kill all good bacteria anyway. But I’m at a loss for what to do. I do 50% water changes every other day and make a point of removing any uneaten food. But ammonia is super high. And I can’t add a reducing agent because of the copper. 

 

Will adding one of those instant cycle bottles with concentrated live bacteria help? I’ve been adding some of that after each water change. Maybe the ammonia would be a lot worse if I wasn’t? But it’s very very high when I test it either way. 

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seabass
7 minutes ago, HingleMcCringleberry said:

I know you’re not supposed to have substrate in a hospital tank.

An aragonite substrate (as would live rock) can adsorb copper.  This makes the meds less effective and makes the rock and substrate no longer suitable for corals.

 

9 minutes ago, HingleMcCringleberry said:

Will adding one of those instant cycle bottles with concentrated live bacteria help?

Maybe a little, but probably not enough.

 

You're in a little over your head right now. :sad:

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Ratvan
32 minutes ago, HingleMcCringleberry said:

 

 

I have another completely different question. How can I reduce ammonia in a quarantine tank. I know you’re not supposed to have substrate in a hospital tank. And I don’t know if medications like the ones I’m using kill all good bacteria anyway. But I’m at a loss for what to do. I do 50% water changes every other day and make a point of removing any uneaten food. But ammonia is super high. And I can’t add a reducing agent because of the copper. 

 

Will adding one of those instant cycle bottles with concentrated live bacteria help? I’ve been adding some of that after each water change. Maybe the ammonia would be a lot worse if I wasn’t? But it’s very very high when I test it either way. 

Have you anyone or a LFS that you can trust to QT for you?

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HingleMcCringleberry
10 minutes ago, Ratvan said:

Have you anyone or a LFS that you can trust to QT for you?

I wish..

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EthanPhillyCheesesteak

Yea, it sounds like to me that you are rushing things. You need to take things slowly. This is not a hobby that you can rush. These are things that my fellow reefers have told me. I have no room to talk, I used to rush things really bad too. You’re new to this hobby, and it does sound like you are “in over your head”. You stated not to long ago, and how many tanks do you have? You need to master one before you master another. 

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HingleMcCringleberry
2 minutes ago, EthanPhillyCheesesteak said:

Yea, it sounds like to me that you are rushing things. You need to take things slowly. This is not a hobby that you can rush. These are things that my fellow reefers have told me. I have no room to talk, I used to rush things really bad too. You’re new to this hobby, and it does sound like you are “in over your head”. You stated not to long ago, and how many tanks do you have? You need to master one before you master another. 

Very true. I got excited because I’ve been doing so well with coral. Everything I add seems to take off growing. Even an acro. I figured fish would be easier if anything. But it’s a whole other animal. No pun intended. 

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Ratvan

Sorry confused, lots of tanks to try and track. How long has the 20 been dry? 

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HingleMcCringleberry
9 minutes ago, Ratvan said:

Sorry confused, lots of tanks to try and track. How long has the 20 been dry? 

Almost exactly a month

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EthanPhillyCheesesteak
8 minutes ago, HingleMcCringleberry said:

Almost exactly a month

Funny thing, I have found fish to be easier than corals😂. Also, you said that you buy from petco? I will admit that I have bought stuff from petco, bc I found some really good deals, but that would not be my only store that I buy from. I never buy fish from them. The fish always look sick. I have bought inverts and anemones from them. Always quarantine if you buy from petco tho. 

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Ratvan

If the tank is completely clean I'd fill it with water and heat it to 104F for an hour. Personally I have done this for between 2-4 hours. That will kill the ich and velvet. Use the same equipment that you had it in to clean that as well.

 

Then sterilise the tank with vinegar and full rinse down etc. Dry for 3 days use a fan if you want to be sure. 

 

At that point you might as well wait the other week or so....

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HingleMcCringleberry
42 minutes ago, EthanPhillyCheesesteak said:

Funny thing, I have found fish to be easier than corals😂. Also, you said that you buy from petco? I will admit that I have bought stuff from petco, bc I found some really good deals, but that would not be my only store that I buy from. I never buy fish from them. The fish always look sick. I have bought inverts and anemones from them. Always quarantine if you buy from petco tho. 

No. I often buy supplies from petco because they’re open so late. That’s the only fish I ever have or ever will buy from them.  

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HingleMcCringleberry
25 minutes ago, Ratvan said:

If the tank is completely clean I'd fill it with water and heat it to 104F for an hour. Personally I have done this for between 2-4 hours. That will kill the ich and velvet. Use the same equipment that you had it in to clean that as well.

 

Then sterilise the tank with vinegar and full rinse down etc. Dry for 3 days use a fan if you want to be sure. 

 

At that point you might as well wait the other week or so....

Sounds like a plan. Just as well I know how to sterilize it since it’s going to be sold when this saga is finally over. 

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seabass

It's almost been 2 weeks.  I'm hoping for good news.  How's everything going?

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HingleMcCringleberry
On 5/27/2019 at 1:29 PM, seabass said:

It's almost been 2 weeks.  I'm hoping for good news.  How's everything going?

I upped the copper past 1 and kept it there for about a week after my last post. I don’t have an RODI machine that’s working anymore so I use a reducing agent on tap water then wait a few days and mix in the salt. Maybe you can see where this is going.. I decided the fish had had enough intense copper and ammonia was high so I decided to do a 100 % water change to unmedicated water. Shortly after the water change all the fish showed signs of extreme stress and started swimming in their sides. My best guess is that the copper had leached out of the objects in the tank and reacted with what was left of the reducing agent. I had thought that letting the new water sit for several days would make it inert or that there at least wouldn’t be enough copper leaching in that it would be so toxic. But I was so wrong. 

 

Fortunately, I also had an observation tank set up for a white ribbon eel that had been in observation for about a week (not eating). I quickly transferred all the fish from quarantine into observation and miraculously after laying on their sides for hours they all recovered!  It’s been about half a week since then and all the fish look and act healthy with no signs of velvet or ich (I was worried the eel could be carrying something too but it appears not).

 

even more good news. Yesterday I got the eel to accept food! 

 

In conclusion. No more fish are in copper. They are all looking healthy. And I have about 2 weeks as far as I can tell until I can introduce them to my 75 gallon. 

 

Next on on my list is to quarantine the magnificent foxface rabbitfish from the 30 gallon with copper and move it to the 75. But that’s weeks away. 

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seabass
3 minutes ago, HingleMcCringleberry said:

I don’t have an RODI machine that’s working anymore so I use a reducing agent on tap water then wait a few days and mix in the salt.

Distilled water is a good alternative to RO/DI.

 

2 minutes ago, HingleMcCringleberry said:

Shortly after the water change all the fish showed signs of extreme stress and started swimming in their sides.

:whoa:

 

5 minutes ago, HingleMcCringleberry said:

miraculously after laying on their sides for hours they all recovered!

That's great news.  I was anticipating something worse.

 

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HingleMcCringleberry
Just now, seabass said:

Distilled water is a good alternative to RO/DI.

 

:whoa:

 

That's great news.  I was anticipating something worse.

 

Yes. Fortunately I didn’t walk away and stayed to monitor. I’ll sent pictures and video when they’re finally in the tank!

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HingleMcCringleberry
On 5/31/2019 at 10:27 AM, seabass said:

Distilled water is a good alternative to RO/DI.

 

:whoa:

 

That's great news.  I was anticipating something worse.

 

Major update. Today I cleaned the original hospital tank, the one that had been running copper, the one where all the fish kept dying, and the one where I rescued all my fish at the last minute, and I discovered something disturbing. After replacing the water and setting the tank up to cycle (for the rabbit fish to be quarantined later on) I went to insert the bubbler and felt prickling pain at the tip of my fingers when they touched the water. I was being shocked by stray voltage! Every time I touched the surface of the water I got a painful prickle. 

 

In my original quest to find out why I was failing so stupendously at quarantining I had read about stray voltage. I don't own a meter but I dipped my fingers in and tried to discern any sensation and found none. However, this time, when I reached over to add the bubbler I had my other hand resting on the edge of my metallic kitchen sink basin and boy was the effect obvious. By trial and error, and a lot of repeated test shocks to my hand, I discerned that it was the heater which was causing the problem. I raised it so that only the bottom 3/4 of the glass tube is in the water and when I dipped my hand again; no shock.

 

I am not sure how big a role this played in my struggles but it certainly must have been awful for the poor fish. I am going out to buy a new heater tomorrow and hopefully, things go better for the rabbitfish.

 

On another note, still no signs of disease in the observation tank! So that's good. I plan to introduce the fish to my display in a week and a half.

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seabass

The fish might not have even noticed.  Like you, they would probably only get shocked if they were grounded to something (think bird on a power line).  That said, good catch on getting that piece of equipment changed out.

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HingleMcCringleberry

Also I have a surprise you all will hate me for. I was buying supplies at the LFS about a week ago and saw they had just got a shipment of orange spotted filefish. And as I watched. The added frozen mysis to that tank for the other fish in it and the filefish also swam to it and ate the frozen mysis. What a rare opportunity. 

 

So so I bought the one with the best appetite and quarantined it. But it wouldn’t eat and hid all day. So I’ve decided to use it as a canary. I added it to the display on Sunday evening. It’s the only fish in there. It’s showing no signs of illness. And it’s eating frozen mysis. I use an acropora skeleton and smear the mysis ,and sometimes just raw grocery store shrimp, onto the skeleton and the filefish quickly comes along and eats it. I’m going to observe the filefish to see if it gets sick for a week and a half longer. If it’s still healthy I will add all my quarantined display fish. 

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