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Snow's 60G Secret Predatory Sanctum 🐲🐉 - Shutting Down


Snow_Phoenix

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Day 13. Today marks the last day of hybrid TTM. If everything had been done correctly, the fish should technically be free of disease. 

 

Old holding bin:

 

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Added a plant to the new bin:

 

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Post-TTM in a 10G recovery bin:

 

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The dartfish doesn't look too good, but the foxface is quite active. The wrasses are playing dead, but appear healthy otherwise. 

 

I added Prime to the water. 

 

Hopefully they'll start eating again. 

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23 minutes ago, Snow_Phoenix said:

The wrasses are playing dead

I forget (am too lazy to look up) which wrasses you have.  However, Halichoeres wrasses sleep in the sand.  If treatment is over, they might appreciate a well rinsed sand bed. :unsure:

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2 minutes ago, seabass said:

I forget (am too lazy to look up) which wrasses you have.  However, Halichoeres wrasses sleep in the sand.  If treatment is over, they might appreciate a well rinsed sand bed. :unsure:

Eek. I ran out of sand. I'll get some when I drop by the LFS next time. I have a Lubbocks, leopard & christmas wrasse. I think the last two will appreciate a sandbox. 🤔

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1 hour ago, seabass said:

I forget (am too lazy to look up) which wrasses you have.  However, Halichoeres wrasses sleep in the sand.  If treatment is over, they might appreciate a well rinsed sand bed. :unsure:

Yah I think this is a good idea. Sand actually helps other fish feel calmer too. Just another natural touch. 

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Sand should also help with the biofilter (it's good surface area).  IDK, maybe soak the thoroughly rinsed sand in some water with nitrifying bacteria (similar to BIO-Spira) prior to adding it.  Then dose the bacteria daily as directed on the bottle, as the free floating bacteria will process ammonia even before it becomes established on the hard surfaces.

 

You don't want to create a bacterial bloom.  But if for some reason one were to occur, they are usually well tolerated given enough aeration (like from: flow, surface disruption, or an air stone or protein skimmer).  If you already have one, a protein skimmer can be a nice addition to a quarantine tank, but I wouldn't necessarily go out and buy one).

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R.I.P. Bo. Swim free, old friend. 😔

 

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No sign of ammonia in the bin. No redness around the gills of the fish, or red streaks on the fins/body. 

 

He looks very thin though. Never ate properly in quarantine. Not sure if that contributed to his passing, or the stress from being TTMed and dipped and medicated on and off. 

 

Down to 4 fish - 2 wrasses, 1 foxface & 1 dartfish. Would be considered extremely lucky to have a single fish by the end of the year. 😔

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I hope they start eating soon.  Some people question the benefits of garlic to entice fish to eat.  I'm pretty sure it changes the the familiar taste and smell of the food.  Maybe that would make them curious, maybe it would cause them to pass on it.

 

If you haven't already, try feeding familiar foods without garlic.  Also, I find that many fish will accept frozen mysis when they are being picky.  Live adult brine shrimp offer little nutritional value, but might get them eating again.

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Lost Bullet in QT today. 

 

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Tbh, none of the fish are doing well in QT, and I'm currently not expecting any of them to pull through until end of Dec. If they do, quite frankly it'll be a miracle. 

 

I'll be distancing myself from this thread for now - it gives me too much stress and anxiety just looking through it. 

 

Will update when/if there are further losses. 

 

I really did try, guys. 😔

 

I'll be focusing on my other tanks & animals - they need me too. 

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19 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

Are you sure there isn’t ammonia? With so many fish in a small tank. 

I've been using Prime consistently. Honestly, at this point, I'm unsure. None of the fish are gasping or breathing hard. But they are thinning out very quickly. My dartfish has lost half of his original girth. 

 

I've tried a variety of food - both with or without garlic. They simply refuse to eat. 😔

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There have been some hobby 'tests' and primes ability of actually detox ammonia has been challenged. I still use it just in case but generally rely on water changes. I am not sure if you have any spare dry rock or what not. I generally move my fish into what is basically a FOWLR after TTM (with fake plants or whatever is cheap). Clay bricks work too or texas holy rock or such. 

 

This was the prime experiment: 

 

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/does-prime-actually-detoxify-free-ammonia-nh3.849985/

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That's not the only prime experiment either, I tend to avoid commenting on it because it's a loaded topic, but they've never been able to provide any method of action by which their product can render ammonia non-toxic and have changed their story, chemistry, and theories multiple times.

There have been dozens of threads where hobbyists who happen to be majoring in chemistry or who simply have enough know-how to do tests ended-up calling the product out as snake-oil which cannot provide the necessary energy to do anything at all to ammonia. 
 

Past that, if what's mentioned above is what I believe it is, using more-advanced testing for ammonia shows that prime likely just messes with our test kits.

It has been a long time since chemistry, and I was awful at it, but ammonia is fairly-stable stuff (when dissolved in water) which requires a handful of catalysts to react with 02 and start moving down the nitrogen cycle (Although IIRC it can produce salts, but they're still toxic and it takes allot of metal).

100% could be totally wrong because it's all toeing a drop-off while chin-deep for me.

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Take them time you need for your health and other pets.  This tank will come back in its own time.  Just know that I for one am uplifted by seeing all of your beautiful pictures each day.  I have two tanks and enjoy them but they will never be the works of art that you have managed to create.

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9 hours ago, Tamberav said:

There have been some hobby 'tests' and primes ability of actually detox ammonia has been challenged. I still use it just in case but generally rely on water changes. I am not sure if you have any spare dry rock or what not. I generally move my fish into what is basically a FOWLR after TTM (with fake plants or whatever is cheap). Clay bricks work too or texas holy rock or such. 

 

This was the prime experiment: 

 

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/does-prime-actually-detoxify-free-ammonia-nh3.849985/

I'll have to dig through the storage to see if I have any dry rock left. I *think I have 1 or 2 small pieces, but they'll need to be cycled for a month or two at least. It might not be ready for the current fish, but should be fine for future fish in future QTs. 🤔

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Tic the zebra barred dartfish died today evening. He was faring very poorly for the past week, and didn't eat. His belly was sunken & pinched when I pulled him out of the bin. 😔

 

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R.I.P. Tic. Swim free. 😔💦

 

Only the leopard wrasse & foxface left. The wrasse isn't doing well. Foxface is 50/50. 

 

At this point, I personally don't think I'll have any fish left by mid-December. 😔

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32 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

Might be ammonia burn? The fins look a little tattered 😞 

I figured as much too. 😞

 

I have Bioptim vials otw to the house, but it might take another day or two to reach. Postage is a bit slow these days. 

 

I did a 100% WC of the QT bin today though. There was a lot of slime (?) in the water. I couldn't take a pic of it because it's almost opaque and my phone's camera can't focus. It looks like like clumped up slime. 

I'll check on the remaining two fish later. They appeared okay today morning, but things can change swiftly in QT. 

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Bioptim vials are here. Just seeded the bin with one vial. 

 

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Also fed the fish live copepods today, but only the foxface ate. 

 

I'll drop a vial in everytime I WC the QT from now on. Will order more in the future. 👍

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One of the eyes of my leopard wrasse is bulging and full of tiny bubbles. He's semi-active, and still not eating, but I'm unsure on what to do. 😔

 

The foxface is eating live pods. Lost a bit of weight, but not thinned out, thankfully. 

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20 hours ago, Snow_Phoenix said:

One of the eyes of my leopard wrasse is bulging and full of tiny bubbles. He's semi-active, and still not eating, but I'm unsure on what to do. 😔

 

The foxface is eating live pods. Lost a bit of weight, but not thinned out, thankfully. 

 

Maybe something bacterial with the leopard? popeye? 

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  • Snow_Phoenix changed the title to Snow's 60G Secret Predatory Sanctum 🐲🐉 - Shutting Down

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