Snow's 60G Secret Predatory Sanctum 🐲🐉 - Shutting Down

[Snow_Phoenix]

6 hours ago, Tamberav said:

I guess it depends on what you are trying to treat. I don’t see brook? And the clownfish isn’t sloughing skin? 
 

I see a bad case if ich and not sure about velvet. 

My black clownfish had gold dust on her body before dying within hours - that was when I realized I was dealing with velvet. Once velvet hit, I had a flare up of Ich & black ich in the tank as well. 

[Snow_Phoenix]

I just came down to check on the QT. I didn't open the lids to get a good look yet - but from what I can see (the bin is opaque, not transparent), my last clownfish has died, my scooter dragonet isn't moving - so I presume he's dead as well. My Singapore angelfish is dying and doesn't look like it has long left. 

 

I did spot my zebra barred dartfish moving away into one of the PVC tunnels. And I *thought I saw a bit of my foxface as well, but it appears mottled. Not sure if any of the wrasses and the last goby (evidently, one of my steinitz gobies was still alive when I was stripping down the tank) are alive. 

 

I won't be touching the bin, except to remove any dead fish or poop (if there is any). I'm already running a HOB with floss & dual airstones in the QT. 

 

I'll try to get a better look after breakfast. I still have a lot of equipment left to clean outside on the side porch. 

 

And at this point, I just feel...numb on the inside. 😔

[Tamberav]

So sorry... ya velvet is such a fast killer 😞 By the time you see spots, its often too late.

 

Do you know what brought it into the tank?

[Snow_Phoenix]

1 hour ago, Tamberav said:

So sorry... ya velvet is such a fast killer 😞 By the time you see spots, its often too late.

 

Do you know what brought it into the tank?

No, and that is what scares me the most - because I cannot prevent it *if it happens again. 😔

[Snow_Phoenix]

R.I.P. Sushi. Swim free. 😔

 

 

Charlie the angelfish is still dying. 😔

 

Other fish are still alive for now. I checked. 

[kimdawg]

I'm so sorry this is happening.  I always keep up with your tanks and just want you to know that you give your fish the best of care.  The way you watch your fish daily and take care of each individual fish type needs is amazing.  If we take them out of their natural habitat we should give them what they need to be healthy and happy.  The pictures of your tank shows that everything in there is well cared for.  It is ok to be sad but don't give up or get discouraged with your passion of fish keeping.

[Snow_Phoenix]

38 minutes ago, kimdawg said:

I'm so sorry this is happening.  I always keep up with your tanks and just want you to know that you give your fish the best of care.  The way you watch your fish daily and take care of each individual fish type needs is amazing.  If we take them out of their natural habitat we should give them what they need to be healthy and happy.  The pictures of your tank shows that everything in there is well cared for.  It is ok to be sad but don't give up or get discouraged with your passion of fish keeping.

Thank you, kimdawg. There are some days I truly question if I'm doing enough - if I've done enough for them. But I do have my limitations, just like any other person, and I have to work within them. 😔

 

This gave me a lot of stress recently. To the point that I nearly passed out on the way to hospital to go for physio for my ankle. That is when I realized that I needed to take a step back. I've been neglecting myself so much recently because I had been desperate to save my animals - to the point that it did worry my parents and they kept asking if I was okay. 

 

The shock has worn off a bit and I still do feel a bit numb on the inside, but I'm taking today off to rest and recover. I might even try my hand at writing or sketching tonight - just to take my mind off things. 

 

I'll treat the current survivors to the best of my ability, but I'll also have to let the disease run its course until the treatment(s) are complete. 

 

It's not an easy choice, but I need to look after myself too. I can't let this break me. I won't. 

[Snow_Phoenix]

I added my heater to the DT today. The temperature is set at 30°C for now - I *might crank it up to 31°C next week. 👍

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I unplugged all three of my lights - AI Prime, InLed & Fuge - because I was worried the power strip would blow off since the heater does consume a *lot of electricity. 

 

I'll reconnect the fuge light every evening, only to turn it on for the night, then disconnect it every morning. 

 

So far, the last few inverts in the tank seem okay. Patrick the starfish has stopped disintegrating once I performed the large WC yesterday and stopped peroxide dosing. 

 

I think starfish *cannot handle peroxide dosing, so if anyone plans on trying out this treatment in your DT in the future, and have starfish in your tank, it's best to move them. Same goes for cleaner & fire shrimp. 👍

[Snow_Phoenix]

Unfortunately there are some dead spots in this tank, and there is still some leftover sediment on the sand. I know I promised not to bother with maintenance for the time being, but I took a min. to quickly baste the large LR on the front left corner of the tank and stir the sand in the corners with a disposable pipette. 

 

This did result in a lot of buried crud becoming *unburied. 

 

 

 

 

So I quickly adjusted the position of my wavemaker to direct more flow towards that area, and also increased the pump's speed. 

 

 

There is still a dead spot there, so I'm contemplating adding a small, cheap wavemaker *temporarily in that corner to prevent dirt from accumulating there. 

 

My giant tunicate seems okay - even spotted a tiny duster worm on it:

 

 

And I guess I'll just leave the tank be (?) 🤷‍♀️

[Snow_Phoenix]

Forgot to add on earlier:- my salinity is 1.020. 

 

The hyposalinity wasn't deliberate - I miscalculated the amount of water needed for the DT, and the batches of SW I mixed up turned out to have lower S.G. I was actually shooting for 1.024. 

 

I'll slowly try to bring the salinity back up through future WCs (not now). So far the inverts remain unaffected. I'll keep an eye on them. 👍

[seabass]

1 hour ago, Snow_Phoenix said:

I added my heater to the DT today. The temperature is set at 30°C for now - I *might crank it up to 31°C next week.

I suggest that you don't.  Personally, I probably wouldn't heat it higher than 28.3°C (or 83°F).  I'd try to keep it stable at this level.

 

30°C is 86°F.  And while a shallow reef might occasionally get that warm, I feel that it's too high for our tanks.

 

33 minutes ago, Snow_Phoenix said:

I'll slowly try to bring the salinity back up through future WCs (not now). So far the inverts remain unaffected. I'll keep an eye on them.

I would bring it back up by topping off with saltwater.  At least for fish, I know that quickly raising salinity is more stressful than quickly lowering it.

[seabass]

Are you checking your hospital tank for ammonia?  Do you have a sufficient biofilter for everything?  Ammonia can be enough to kill your fish too.

 

Also, the ammonia detoxifiers like Prime aren't compatible with all meds.  I know this to be true with Cupramine.  Sorry that my knowledge of other interactions is pretty poor.  Just verify before dosing anything while treating fish with meds.

[Snow_Phoenix]

27 minutes ago, seabass said:

Are you checking your hospital tank for ammonia?  Do you have a sufficient biofilter for everything?  Ammonia can enough to kill your fish too.

 

Also, the ammonia detoxifiers like Prime aren't compatible with all meds.  I know this to be true with Cupramine.  Sorry that my knowledge of other interactions is pretty poor.  Just verify before dosing anything while treating fish with meds.

I haven't checked yet, but will do so. 👍

 

I believe prime is not compatible with prazi. Not sure if it is compatible with metro. 🤔

32 minutes ago, seabass said:

I suggest that you don't.  Personally, I probably wouldn't heat it higher than 28.3°C (or 83°F).  I'd try to keep it stable at this level.

 

30°C is 86°F.  And while a shallow reef might occasionally get that warm, I feel that it's too high for our tanks.

 

I would bring it back up by topping off with saltwater.  At least for fish, I know that quickly raising salinity is more stressful than quickly lowering it.

Noted on that - but since I hardly have anything in this tank, won't 30°C be alright for a week at least? So far, everything seems tentatively okay in there. 👀

 

Topping up with SW does indeed sound easier than doing a large WC to bring the salinity back up. I'll have to do it slowly though - preferably over a few days. Just worried it'll kill the inverts in the tank. 

[Snow_Phoenix]

Planning on starting hybrid TTM tomorrow, including peroxide baths. I'll reread the articles on Humblefish's forum and study them - then recalculate the doses since I'm using 6% peroxide and not the recommended 3%. 

 

Will also get the instructions with the updated doses written down on paper, so that it'll be easier to refer to while I mix up fresh SW. 

 

I'll try to share my updated treatment plan for the fish on here later as well, just in case anyone is curious about it. 👍

 

None of the surviving fish are eating though - they're too stressed out. 😕

 

I'm checking the bin again shortly to remove any dead fish. 

 

[seabass]

8 hours ago, Snow_Phoenix said:

won't 30°C be alright for a week at least? So far, everything seems tentatively okay in there.

On the topic, Randy Holmes-Farley stated, "Ron Shimek has shown in a previous article that the greatest variety of corals are found in water whose average temperature is about 83-86° F.  Reef aquaria do, however, have limitations that may make their optimal temperature somewhat lower".

-  http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/

 

I feel that you are currently pushing the limits and higher levels wouldn't be advised.  30°C is probably alright for a week. But like I stated above, 28.3°C is as high as I'd personally be comfortable keeping it at.  You are trying to increase metabolism, not trying to fry the current residents.

 

5 hours ago, Snow_Phoenix said:

None of the surviving fish are eating though - they're too stressed out.

Often a sign of high ammonia.  But could be all the other stuff happening too.

[Snow_Phoenix]

12 minutes ago, seabass said:

On the topic, Randy Holmes-Farley stated, "Ron Shimek has shown in a previous article that the greatest variety of corals are found in water whose average temperature is about 83-86° F.  Reef aquaria do, however, have limitations that may make their optimal temperature somewhat lower".

-  http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/

 

I feel that you are currently pushing the limits and higher levels wouldn't be advised.  Like I stated above, 28.3°C is as high as I'd personally be comfortable keeping it at.  You are trying to increase metabolism, not fry the current residents.

 

Often a sign of high ammonia.  But could be all the other stuff happening too.

Alright. I'll turn the dial back down to 28°C - that should be fine for the entire duration of the fallow period, right? 🤔

[seabass]

5 minutes ago, Snow_Phoenix said:

Alright. I'll turn the dial back down to 28°C - that should be fine for the entire duration of the fallow period, right?

Sure. With good aeration, keeping it steady at 28°C should be totally safe.

[Snow_Phoenix]

I finally checked up on the bin again. The survivors are mostly either sticking to the PVC tubes or staying close to each other:

 

 

I noticed Charlie the angelfish was already dead in one corner. 😔

 

 

His body looked powdery, but I'm unsure if that was my camera's lighting issue, ich, or salt granules (?) sticking to his slime coat:

 

 

R.I.P. Charlie. Swim free. 😔

 

 

Am currently down to 3 wrasses, 1 foxface, 1 dragonet, 1 goby & 1 dartfish. 

[Snow_Phoenix]

6 minutes ago, seabass said:

Sure. With good aeration, keep it steady at 28°C should be totally safe.

The DT is well-aerated, to my knowledge. The Jebao's output is 8500L/Hr and right now I'm almost running it to max. The return pump is 3000L/Hr (or was it 4000L/Hr? 🤔 ) as well. Once I add a secondary wavemaker (thinking of picking up a regular cheap one which is either 5000L/Hr or 7500L/Hr), I think the tank should have more improved flow as well. 👍

[Snow_Phoenix]

Throwback to when this tank had *this giant elegance coral exactly 2 years ago from today:

 

 

 

 

 

And my ex-mushroom mountain as well:

 

[Snow_Phoenix]

Heater temp. lowered to 28°C. Thanks for guiding me on this one, @seabass. 👍

 

 

Most of CUC is out and so far appear alright. 

 

 

 

 

 

I spotted a cherry red spaghetti worm earlier, but I think it has retreated into the sandbed. The number of bristleworms is significantly less as well. I hope they'll remain that way for the duration of the fallow period. 

[Snow_Phoenix]

I checked up on the fuge as well. My macro has dwindled, but I suppose that is expected. 😕

 

 

I did observe various microfauna making a comeback, including the limpets: 👀

 

 

Some tiny duster worms:

 

 

And various other critters including pods, bristleworms and aiptasia. I did spot this cool-looking sponge on one of the rocks as well:

 

 

Although it could be a tunicate, for all that I know. 🤷‍♀️

 

Unfortunately, I *think the peroxide dosings have accidently eradicated my microbrittles. 😕

 

Was a bit bummed about this one because I loved watching the tiny stars move about the rockwork and caulerpa. 

[Snow_Phoenix]

Okay, so this looks quite messy, but I jotted it down and understand it somehow. And not all of the steps are complete, so I'll have to keep referring to it online as I do this.

 

 

 

Full credit to @Humblefish because this is pretty much uplifted directly from his forum. I just readjusted the volume of the doses a little since I'll be using 6% peroxide, and not 3%. 

 

I will keep rereading his write ups though, because certain steps require precise timing with specific methods. 🤔

 

I also read up fish compatibility-sensitivity with regards to the hybrid TTM method, and as of now there is no mention of how a steinitz goby and christmas wrasse will handle this. 😕

 

I'm also concerned for my scooter, Illaron. Dragonets have a history of stressing out very quickly in dips and baths. 😕

 

But I'll try my best. If everything goes alright and I re-set the QT, tomorrow will be day #1 of the treatment plan. If I follow through, then I'll press on to Day #13, and later simply let the fish rest & recover until my DT's fallow period is over, which should be after Christmas. 🌲

[debbeach13]

Your fortitude to see this through is amazing.

[Snow_Phoenix]

21 minutes ago, debbeach13 said:

Your fortitude to see this through is amazing.

Thanks, Deb. 

 

Also - sorry for spamming the forum with so many updates on this particular journal thread. But I find it easier to keep track of what I'm doing when I record it down this way. Also, I'm hoping that in the future - if ever someone else has to battle this nasty disease in their tank (honestly, hopefully no one has to), these updates *might be of help to them in some way. 

So far from what I've observed so far:

 

1. A fish experiencing the late stages of velvet would most likely die, no matter what you do - especially if the velvet strain is the one that kills within 12 hours, as opposed to weeks, or even months.

 

2. Peroxide treatment *might buy you some time, but it's not friendly towards starfish (pull out any starfish from the DT prior to dosing is best), and has an impact on macroalgae as well as microfauna populations - especially highly-sensitive critters like microbrittles.

 

^I, however, did not complete the full course of peroxide dosing treatment, so my data/findings are not complete.

 

But I think that the moment a fish shows a symptom(s) of velvet - don't wait, just yank everyone out of the DT somehow and get them into QT immediately. I haven't tried the peroxide bath yet, but I did try an acriflavine bath and although it was not truly effective, I think it bought me a *bit of time for *some of my fish. The same way metronidazole is buying me also more time, but not truly effective in killing this thing. 

Hopefully most of them will make it through the 14 days. It's going to be stressful fortnight on everyone, myself included. 

I'm keeping the spaces in my calendar free too so that I can quickly scribble down the timings of the treatment and not exceed the 72 hour deadline on tank-transfers.