"Too many" bristle worms???

[toohipnoob]

I've done some extensive googling on "bristle worms." I'm convinced I have the "safe" kind. And I "get" that they are safe and serve as cleanup crew. I have a 29g JBJ nano, and just went through a almost complete die off of fish and inverts due to what I believe was an excessive salinity water exchange (previous new thread). But as I'm cleaning up the tank, moving rock, I'm noticing an enormous amount of bristle worms, large and small. I know that excessive feeding leads to large quantities, but I feed like one cube of frozen marine food (varies) maybe an additional pinch of pellets, occasionally a seaweed strip for the bottom feeders. 

My question is. . . can one have TOO MANY bristle worms? Some of the larger ones are like 6-10" long! I realize they eat "dead" critters, but what about weak or injured fish? My fear is, there are so many and with reduced food, they could turn predatory? I realize they can't take down a healthy fish, but what about listless ones? Anenomes? I've lost a lot who get under the rock (cave) and never reappear. Anything that dies, seems to disappear, and never see a carcass or skeleton, so they're doing their jobs. But can there be too many? I'm cleaning up the tank after the recent most life die off, and plan on culling the herd of bristle worms, figuring if there's no harm in "too many" they'll reproduce. Will probably get rid of the bigger ones. I added a picture of one of many live rocks that is covered with them, and this is open water, didn't turn the rock over. They're every where! 
Thoughts?

 

[WV Reefer]

3 minutes ago, toohipnoob said:

I've done some extensive googling on "bristle worms." I'm convinced I have the "safe" kind. And I "get" that they are safe and serve as cleanup crew. I have a 29g JBJ nano, and just went through a almost complete die off of fish and inverts due to what I believe was an excessive salinity water exchange (previous new thread). But as I'm cleaning up the tank, moving rock, I'm noticing an enormous amount of bristle worms, large and small. I know that excessive feeding leads to large quantities, but I feed like one cube of frozen marine food (varies) maybe an additional pinch of pellets, occasionally a seaweed strip for the bottom feeders. 

My question is. . . can one have TOO MANY bristle worms? Some of the larger ones are like 6-10" long! I realize they eat "dead" critters, but what about weak or injured fish? My fear is, there are so many and with reduced food, they could turn predatory? I realize they can't take down a healthy fish, but what about listless ones? Anenomes? I've lost a lot who get under the rock (cave) and never reappear. Anything that dies, seems to disappear, and never see a carcass or skeleton, so they're doing their jobs. But can there be too many? I'm cleaning up the tank after the recent most life die off, and plan on culling the herd of bristle worms, figuring if there's no harm in "too many" they'll reproduce. Will probably get rid of the bigger ones. I added a picture of one of many live rocks that is covered with them, and this is open water, didn't turn the rock over. They're every where! 
Thoughts?

 

 

The population will regulate according to the food available. Leave them alone! 😄

[toohipnoob]

Thanks, makes sense, but still if they self-regulate, that suggests with "excess" there's going to be a die off, and that means more bio-material.  Should I expect that self-regulation to include they will eat their own (carcasses), and there won't be a negative affect of THEIR die-off?  I still may pull a few of the bigger ones out and toss them, just to help.  Some how my last water change had something bad in the pre-mix.  Looked kind brown, thought it was excessive salinity, but I can't believe that pushed a major die off of just about everything.  Going to do 5g water changes until I've pretty much replaced all volume, let the tank settle in and start over with the livestock.

[Clown79]

Was the new SW mix brown water?

 

Any chance a piece of equipment you used rusted? 

[Superdave]

I am kind of in the same boat.  Had fish and snails (two larger hermits are fine) all "disappear" despite levels being perfect/ideal.  I've spent hours reading and many seem to say they are fine, but I honestly am trying to thin my heard so to speak.  Bought a coral banded shrimp and while its very cool, has not touched a single worm.  The ones I have are so fast, trying to grab them would be futile.  

 

I know some would say the good water conditions are due to the worms keeping stuff clean, but I have not added any food in weeks.  I did freshwater dip to get worm to come out but no dice.  Tried leaving rocks in fresh/new salt water (in hopes the lack of surface agitation would coax them out) and not a one.  Build a home made trap--still not a single one.  

 

Am not sure how long dozens of worms can live with no food, but mine seem just fine.  Am considering a trap sold on Amazon that is around $30 and seems to have decent reviews.  

 

I would like to have a fish again so in my little reef box, there are too many worms!  

 

Good luck with your battle and let me know if you find a decent solution.

 

--Superdave

[lakshwadeep]

The bristle worms in your picture are unlikely to kill fish because they can only rasp things. They would literally have to lick the fish to death. Just because they are doing well doesn't mean they need to be scapegoats.

[Crys]

I have a 13 gal saltwater tank with coral, snails,a crab and some fish.  I have seen 6 worms that stick their head out once and while when I feed.  So if there are 6 to been seen I am guessing there are a lot more.  I have killed them in the past by putting the rock in the coral pest dip.  But it stresses everyone in the tank when I take the rock structure apart.  So how do I know if it is an infestation or ok?  I hate worms but will live with them if they are good for the tank.  They are the harmless ones. Do cleaner shrimp really eat them?   Thanks for any help I am new to the hobby.

[WV Reefer]

19 minutes ago, Crys said:

I have a 13 gal saltwater tank with coral, snails,a crab and some fish.  I have seen 6 worms that stick their head out once and while when I feed.  So if there are 6 to been seen I am guessing there are a lot more.  I have killed them in the past by putting the rock in the coral pest dip.  But it stresses everyone in the tank when I take the rock structure apart.  So how do I know if it is an infestation or ok?  I hate worms but will live with them if they are good for the tank.  They are the harmless ones. Do cleaner shrimp really eat them?   Thanks for any help I am new to the hobby.

Bristleworms are a beneficial part of your clean up crew.  

 

[Wingy]

Beneficial  or not they creep me out so if they want to  live they had better stay hidden.

[mcarroll]

If you don't mind never making a mess for them to clean up, then I'm sure they won't mind not coming out to clean it up.

 

You guys are a team and you just don't know it yet -- you're Yin and they are Yang.

 

☯️

 

😉 

[xM3THODx]

On 4/6/2019 at 3:02 PM, toohipnoob said:

I've done some extensive googling on "bristle worms." I'm convinced I have the "safe" kind. And I "get" that they are safe and serve as cleanup crew. I have a 29g JBJ nano, and just went through a almost complete die off of fish and inverts due to what I believe was an excessive salinity water exchange (previous new thread). But as I'm cleaning up the tank, moving rock, I'm noticing an enormous amount of bristle worms, large and small. I know that excessive feeding leads to large quantities, but I feed like one cube of frozen marine food (varies) maybe an additional pinch of pellets, occasionally a seaweed strip for the bottom feeders. 

My question is. . . can one have TOO MANY bristle worms? Some of the larger ones are like 6-10" long! I realize they eat "dead" critters, but what about weak or injured fish? My fear is, there are so many and with reduced food, they could turn predatory? I realize they can't take down a healthy fish, but what about listless ones? Anenomes? I've lost a lot who get under the rock (cave) and never reappear. Anything that dies, seems to disappear, and never see a carcass or skeleton, so they're doing their jobs. But can there be too many? I'm cleaning up the tank after the recent most life die off, and plan on culling the herd of bristle worms, figuring if there's no harm in "too many" they'll reproduce. Will probably get rid of the bigger ones. I added a picture of one of many live rocks that is covered with them, and this is open water, didn't turn the rock over. They're every where! 
Thoughts?

 

They are beneficial as part of the cuc but they can become unsightly if they're out crawling over the rockwork. It's been a long long while but there is a simple trap if you want to thin out the population, just put a bit of food in some filter floss and set it on the sandbed at night. 

[Seadragon]

@ those that do not want bristle worms: Do you think you got them as hitchhikers from live rock?  Is that how they were introduced into your tank?  Because I have no bristle worms in both of my nano reefs and couldn't be happier.  They kind of remind me of how people react to pest snails in freshwater aquariums.  You'll hear hobbyists say that pest snails are fine and will die off if you don't overfeed your fish, but there are those of us who don't want pest snails or bristle worms in our tanks.  Both appear to be unwanted hitchhikers that make the tank look less appealing.

 

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I'm fine with the only things sifting through my white sand is a Nassarius Snail and a bunch of Blue Leg Hermit Crabs.

 

[xM3THODx]

3 hours ago, Seadragon said:

@ those that do not want bristle worms: Do you think you got them as hitchhikers from live rock?  Is that how they were introduced into your tank?  Because I have no bristle worms in both of my nano reefs and couldn't be happier.  They kind of remind me of how people react to pest snails in freshwater aquariums.  You'll hear hobbyists say that pest snails are fine and will die off if you don't overfeed your fish, but there are those of us who don't want pest snails or bristle worms in our tanks.  Both appear to be unwanted hitchhikers that make the tank look less appealing.

 

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I'm fine with the only things sifting through my white sand is a Nassarius Snail and a bunch of Blue Leg Hermit Crabs.

 

I started my system with dry real reef rock and sand. I too didn't want bristle worms. but did want beneficial benthic organisms. I asked a few local reefers with seasoned tanks if I could get a small scoop of their sand and bought a cup of live sand from an online source as a seed. 

 

One of the local sources did have small bristle worms in the scoop of sand I got but only 5 or so. I put them in the sump where I have extra rock. So for me, I did introduce them into my system. A year later I see some in the display tank at night when I feed the corals. 

 

As sterile as you want to be with keeping out unwanted hitchhikers, I find they can hide deep in the underside of lps skeletons or rock they're grown on and survive dips. 

[Tired]

If you feed less, then yes, some will potentially die off, and the others will eat them. However, that won't be an infinite source. Once they run out of each other to eat, you'll have fewer, and they'll stay like that. 

 

And no, you can't really have too many, not for anything other than appearance reasons and not bothering your corals with things crawling on them. 

 

How many is "a lot" of things vanishing and getting eaten? Because I'd say that's a bigger concern than some worms.

[Seadragon]

Just the idea of some pest that can grow big enough to kill and eat very expensive fish and shrimp is enough evidence for me to say it’s not worth it.  All I see are ticking time bombs that will eventually either cost you time or money or both in the long run.

 

Want to aerate your sand?  I got a free stick that doesn’t eat fish or shrimp.

[mcarroll]

On 4/6/2019 at 6:02 PM, toohipnoob said:

just went through a almost complete die off of fish and inverts

 

On 4/6/2019 at 6:02 PM, toohipnoob said:

I feed like one cube of frozen marine food (varies) maybe an additional pinch of pellets, occasionally a seaweed strip for the bottom feeders. 

 

On 4/6/2019 at 6:02 PM, toohipnoob said:

I've lost a lot who get under the rock (cave) and never reappear. Anything that dies, seems to disappear, and never see a carcass or skeleton, so they're doing their jobs.

Just quoting to make these passages easy to see together and to talk about since the thread got a bump...not pointing fingers at a four month old post!!!  😉

 

This tank was an effective bristleworm factory with all the death (and feeding) noted in the comments.  

 

The bristleworms were not "the problem", just another symptom.  And the bristleworms weren't even problematic in a real sense...just creepy, which is not a great sensitivity for a reefer to have.  Almost everything about a reef is either wiggly, slimy, spidery or snakey...or worse! 😉

[Seadragon]

It’s only a problem if it starts to out compete other living creatures within the tank for food, starts to eat corals, increases the bio load due to a population epidemic, kills lethargic fish that may have recovered, or creates stress due to aggressive behavior.

 

Other than that, there’s nothing wrong if you like that sort of thing.

 

[mcarroll]

Bristleworms don't occupy an ecological role at all like you're describing.

 

And the corals and fish you are imagining in the example are in a very troubled tank being harrassed by the tank owner, not being harrassed by worms.

 

We are in control of the tank's bio-load – it is totally a function of what food, fish and corals WE put into the tank.

 

The worms scale on a slight delay up OR down with that bio-load.

 

Simple as that.  

 

(Just about identical to earthworms.)

[Seadragon]

25 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Bristleworms don't occupy an ecological role at all like you're describing.

 

We are in control of the tank's bio-load – it is totally a function of what food, fish and corals WE put into the tank.

 

The worms scale on a slight delay up OR down with that bio-load.

 

Simple as that.  

 

(Just about identical to earthworms.)

 

On 4/8/2019 at 10:16 PM, Superdave said:

I know some would say the good water conditions are due to the worms keeping stuff clean, but I have not added any food in weeks.

 

Am not sure how long dozens of worms can live with no food, but mine seem just fine.  Am considering a trap sold on Amazon that is around $30 and seems to have decent reviews.  

 

I would like to have a fish again so in my little reef box, there are too many worms!  

 

Good luck with your battle and let me know if you find a decent solution.

 

--Superdave

 

I have to agree with Superdave that unlike fish, Bristleworms can survive without us feeding the tank for weeks — and I bet even longer than that if tested.  They are not as fragile as you may think.  They are called hitchhikers for a reason.  They can outlive most tank inhabitants and survive the craziest conditions.

 

You see “yin yang” with an epidemic of pests, and I see an unbalance in the system that not many admire.

[DSA65PRO]

I did an RO/DI Dip to reduce the population. Twenty to Thirty minute on each piece. It you have the containers, you could drain the aquarium down real low quickly, fill with RO/DI Water, set the timer to Fifteen minutes, drain and put the removed water back in. You would have to remove all your Shrimp and Crabs. The fish and most of the Snails will survive. The few Corals were okay. When I did my Live Rock Dip I was transferring from one tank to another. I have Tunicates and a Dark Green Sponge that survived, along with a thousands  of micro tube worms. Neon Dottybacks love to eat the small ones. BTW Adjust the pH of the RO/DI Water to match your tanks pH. I forgot to do that, and still had success, figured I'd killed everything, but didn't.

[mcarroll]

7 hours ago, Seadragon said:

 

 

I have to agree with Superdave that unlike fish, Bristleworms can survive without us feeding the tank for weeks — and I bet even longer than that if tested.  They are not as fragile as you may think.  They are called hitchhikers for a reason.  They can outlive most tank inhabitants and survive the craziest conditions.

 

You see “yin yang” with an epidemic of pests, and I see an unbalance in the system that not many admire.

 

57 minutes ago, DSA65PRO said:

I did an RO/DI Dip to reduce the population. Twenty to Thirty minute on each piece. It you have the containers, you could drain the aquarium down real low quickly, fill with RO/DI Water, set the timer to Fifteen minutes, drain and put the removed water back in. You would have to remove all your Shrimp and Crabs. The fish and most of the Snails will survive. The few Corals were okay. When I did my Live Rock Dip I was transferring from one tank to another. I have Tunicates and a Dark Green Sponge that survived, along with a thousands  of micro tube worms. Neon Dottybacks love to eat the small ones. BTW Adjust the pH of the RO/DI Water to match your tanks pH. I forgot to do that, and still had success, figured I'd killed everything, but didn't.

I bet you both probably have a way way better idea than this, but I think you guys should take each other's advice.  

 

Make sure to take pictures of the process as it happens and post them here.

 

Maybe a documentary on YouTube would be even better. You guys will be YouTube millionaires!!!  

 

"Bristleworm Kings"!!!

 

Dude! I am excited!

 

Make sure you tell me when you post the first episode:

"Tunicate Dip".

 

Mmm, dip...

[Seadragon]

3 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

 

I bet you both probably have a way way better idea than this, but I think you guys should take each other's advice.  

 

Make sure to take pictures of the process as it happens and post them here.

 

Maybe a documentary on YouTube would be even better. You guys will be YouTube millionaires!!!  

 

"Bristleworm Kings"!!!

 

Dude! I am excited!

 

Make sure you tell me when you post the first episode:

"Tunicate Dip".

 

Mmm, dip...

 

Let me tell you about the story of my pest snails in one of my first freshwater tanks that exploded to thousands and would never go away once they were introduced.  There was a lot of "yin yang" going on in that tank!  Got rid of that sucker and moved on.

[mcarroll]

Tell me more!

[Tamberav]

15 hours ago, Seadragon said:

@ those that do not want bristle worms: Do you think you got them as hitchhikers from live rock?  Is that how they were introduced into your tank?  Because I have no bristle worms in both of my nano reefs and couldn't be happier.  They kind of remind me of how people react to pest snails in freshwater aquariums.  You'll hear hobbyists say that pest snails are fine and will die off if you don't overfeed your fish, but there are those of us who don't want pest snails or bristle worms in our tanks.  Both appear to be unwanted hitchhikers that make the tank look less appealing.

 

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I'm fine with the only things sifting through my white sand is a Nassarius Snail and a bunch of Blue Leg Hermit Crabs.

 

A healthy reef has high diversity which includes bristle worms. 

 

They come in on coral and rock and mostly stay hidden during the day. I generally never see them out unless I am feeding a lot of meaty foods.

 

Almost any tank ends up with them at some point if a person adds life to it as they can be super tiny hitchikers.

[Tamberav]

10 hours ago, Seadragon said:

Just the idea of some pest that can grow big enough to kill and eat very expensive fish and shrimp is enough evidence for me to say it’s not worth it.  All I see are ticking time bombs that will eventually either cost you time or money or both in the long run.

 

Want to aerate your sand?  I got a free stick that doesn’t eat fish or shrimp.

What we call by the common name bristle worms don't eat fish or shrimp. Neither do peanut worms.

 

What we call bobbit and firewoms can be problematic.