Need some help with Torch

[mitten_reef]

So a few weeks ago my torch was slowly gaining more colors...and BAM, last week, it started receding.  I’m a lazy reefer, but it’s conditions had caused enough concerns for me to do the full test tonight:

Alk 9 dKh

Ca 410-420

Mag 1600+; high? Yup, but I thought this doesn’t affect corals much, or is that just SPS.

pH 8.1-8.2

nitrate: big fat 0 as yellow as the reagent is, no hint of change whatsoever

 

now, I’m the type that run my tank pretty dirty, no skimmer, no purigen, no chemipure/blue. I run a small piece of deep blue phosphate remover filter pad, it helps keep my sand from getting dirty.  Never imagined having zero nitrate.  

 

So is it the lack of nitrate? or the Mag? Or is it simply physical trauma? Pygmy angel has been picking out Zoas poop; and he may have the same idea for the torch poop.  and this wknd I just added a new peppermint shrimp (never had one picked at corals before), but could be a possible culprit. 

 

Here’s before pic

 

This past wknd

 

This morning the flesh is retracted all the way inside the skeleton.   

 

I guess, barring any physical trauma/attack from pygmy angel and/or peppermint shrimp, can I maintain the parameters where they are and hope for recovery?   This is the first time I got a euphyllia in a few years, and I've had success with them in the past (frog and hammer, never torch tho).    

 

 

[Clown79]

High mag isn't known to cause issues, low mag does.

 

Is your alk stable through the week because that really effects euphyllia. 

 

0 nutrients will as well.

Having 0 phos or nitrates is an issue for corals and can lead to other unwanted things.

 

Another issue can be too much flow on it.

[mitten_reef]

28 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

Is your alk stable through the week because that really effects euphyllia. 

presumably so, I have the alk solution on a scheduled/timed doser

28 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

0 nutrients will as well.

Having 0 phos or nitrates is an issue for corals and can lead to other unwanted things.

My nutrients aren't necessarily 0, because I have a good 'dusting' of algae on the sand and on the glass.  But I have never cared to measure them either.  I can readily cause a small algae bloom if I dose Fuel more than once a week - so I assumed I'm at the balance point.  

 

I know a lot of this is guessing game from my end, and it's hard giving advice based on guesses.  

 

I guess this can be more like an exercise to see what others had experienced with their torch corals, growth, decline, rebound, survival etc. 

    

 

 

[burtbollinger]

i'd be watching alk stabilty....especially not spiking that alk.

 

I'd make sure the flow isnt too much.

 

i'd want those nitrates at 5 to 7.5 on a good nitrate test kit (i like elos)

 

I'd dump the phosphate pad.

 

I'd triple check the true salinity vs. what you think you have.

 

it doesnt look like a lost cause...btw.  not yet anyway.

[mitten_reef]

3 hours ago, burtbollinger said:

i'd be watching alk stabilty....especially not spiking that alk.

 

I'd make sure the flow isnt too much.

 

i'd want those nitrates at 5 to 7.5 on a good nitrate test kit (i like elos)

 

I'd dump the phosphate pad.

 

I'd triple check the true salinity vs. what you think you have.

 

it doesnt look like a lost cause...btw.  not yet anyway.

Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll remove the phosphate pad this evening. 

I remember some conversations on your journal about Fuel. Do you find it helpful in keeping the N and P up? 

 

[burtbollinger]

3 hours ago, micoastreefing said:

Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll remove the phosphate pad this evening. 

I remember some conversations on your journal about Fuel. Do you find it helpful in keeping the N and P up? 

 

I rarely test either TBH.  

 

I think I've been dosing too much fuel lately, and im cutting back due to odd little things going on with a few LPS.

 

what concerns me most about your torches are around the base i dont see much flesh...it almost looks jagged or something.  have you had this torch a while?  If not, I wonder if it has always been in rough shape since when you got it and then it wouldnt take much to push it further downhill?

 

 

 

[mitten_reef]

3 minutes ago, burtbollinger said:

I rarely test either TBH.  

 

I think I've been dosing too much fuel lately, and im cutting back due to odd little things going on with a few LPS.

 

what concerns me most about your torches are around the base i dont see much flesh...it almost looks jagged or something.  have you had this torch a while?  If not, I wonder if it has always been in rough shape since when you got it and then it wouldnt take much to push it further downhill?

 

 

 

that's what concerned me too - too much retracted/retreated flesh and the skeleton started to show through.  The frag has been around since mid Feb or so.  

 

On a nice turn of event, I noted in my journal already too, I caught the peppermint shrimp munching on what's little bit of flesh that was trying to peak out.  safe to say, out goes the shrimp.  The shrimp was bought this past saturday.  And while I had some shrinking flesh issue before adding shrimp, it certainly had accelerated since this wknd.  I definitely didn't put the two together, that should have been a dead giveaway looking back to it.

 

Now I'm just hoping that the torch will nurse itself back to health.  

[burtbollinger]

3 minutes ago, micoastreefing said:

that's what concerned me too - too much retracted/retreated flesh and the skeleton started to show through.  The frag has been around since mid Feb or so.  

 

On a nice turn of event, I noted in my journal already too, I caught the peppermint shrimp munching on what's little bit of flesh that was trying to peak out.  safe to say, out goes the shrimp.  The shrimp was bought this past saturday.  And while I had some shrinking flesh issue before adding shrimp, it certainly had accelerated since this wknd.  I definitely didn't put the two together, that should have been a dead giveaway looking back to it.

 

Now I'm just hoping that the torch will nurse itself back to health.  

new torch that wasnt in ideal shape to begin with...plus the shock of the move...who really knows what the store's parameters were (my LFS had an alk. of 5)...plus a shrimp...good idea to pull that shrimp :0  good luck and be patient.

[mcarroll]

Fuel is an organic carbon source... specifically for lowering nitrates. It will drive down phosphates a little as well.  

 

 The algae you see growing is more than likely either dinoflagellates or cyanobacteria… Not healthy green algae.

[mitten_reef]

1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

Fuel is an organic carbon source... specifically for lowering nitrates. It will drive down phosphates a little as well.  

 

 The algae you see growing is more than likely either dinoflagellates or cyanobacteria… Not healthy green algae.

Thanks for chiming in.  The main culprit was the newly introduced peppermint shrimp, as noted a post or two earlier.  The torch was too far gone from the tissue damaged by the shrimp and I lost the torch shortly after removing the shrimp.  

 

Not sure if we’re talking about the same Fuel, aquavitro fuel has similar purpose/makeup to acropower - liquid amino acids and vitamins. The algae bloom after adding Fuel is typically combination of green algae on glass and reddish brown dusting on the sand - both generally go away/slow down on its own after a week, or after one water change, whichever comes first. 

[EthanPhillyCheesesteak]

On 5/12/2019 at 1:08 PM, mitten_reef said:

Thanks for chiming in.  The main culprit was the newly introduced peppermint shrimp, as noted a post or two earlier.  The torch was too far gone from the tissue damaged by the shrimp and I lost the torch shortly after removing the shrimp.  

 

Not sure if we’re talking about the same Fuel, aquavitro fuel has similar purpose/makeup to acropower - liquid amino acids and vitamins. The algae bloom after adding Fuel is typically combination of green algae on glass and reddish brown dusting on the sand - both generally go away/slow down on its own after a week, or after one water change, whichever comes first. 

Never trust a peppermint, they are worse than most crabs in my opinion. I’ve had horrible experience with them. No matter what a store says, they are definitely not reef safe

[xthunt]

On 5/12/2019 at 11:27 AM, mcarroll said:

Fuel is an organic carbon source... specifically for lowering nitrates. It will drive down phosphates a little as well.  

 

 The algae you see growing is more than likely either dinoflagellates or cyanobacteria… Not healthy green algae.

Aquavitro Fuel is an Amino and vitamin source, based off chlorella algae. I would think it would raise nitrate, and maybe phosphate when it breaks down. Maybe you were thinking Red Sea Nopox?

[mcarroll]

Glad you figured out the original problem!!

 

I was talking about product contents, btw. 😁  

 

Most of the aminos added will simply break down in the tank.  

 

Broken down, they are mostly carbon with a smidge of nitrogen and a trace element for good measure.

 

Adding organic carbon and trace elements (when not really needed or called for...and they almost never are) is a pretty good recipe for a cyano bloom.   (If you are lucky, that was your red powdery algae.)

 

What are your nitrate and phosphate levels usually like?  

 

This, among other factors, will impact whether / what kind of results you see.

[mcarroll]

Just to add a reference:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amino_acid

 

The main pic is the basic amino structure.  The "R" is where the trace element chain would connect.

 

Look at the page for any one of the specific amino acids to see what these a whole molecule would look like.