Neptune Systems Trident

[Scorched]

I am a member of the NSI (Neptune Systems Insiders) aka beta test team.  If there are others chime in and share your experience as well.

 

 

I'll try and put of all of the information that I am able to share at the moment. A bunch of this is already on the web or on various videos but for those that haven't kept up with the news here are some of its features.

Trident tests all 3 major reef elements - Alkalinity, Calcium, and Magnesium automatically on a repeating schedule. Right now its 2 Alk only tests a day, and 2 combo tests a day. Giving you 4 Alk, 2 Ca, and 2 Mg. This is the standard configuration that uses up one set of reagents in 2 months. You are free to increase the interval at the cost of using up more reagent. All tests are done using Titration. 



This is how a bunch of the Salifert and Red Sea tests work. You fill a vial with tank water, add a reagent and then keep adding it until it changes color. The process is done automatically using a peristaltic pump and is then determined using an optical led light / eye. There are no pH probes so you don't have to worry about it drifting or calibrating it. It uses a single pump design with multiple solenoids to switch between drawing in tank water, drawing in reagent, emptying the test vial, and repeating for each element. By using only one pump you don't have to worry about having multiple pumps to calibrate or uneven wear between them. By using a single pump, if its starts to drift out of ml/min calibration it will draw in sample water, and reagent at equal proportions and still give you accurate readings.

The tile in Fusion shows all 3 parameters based on the last tests taken. You can click the tile to open up a weekly graph of your parameters. 



You can click the tile again to show additional info.
It shows your waste output and number of tests remaining based on your reagents. When the container is full it will give you an error and stop testing so it doesn't overfill. You can then empty the waste container and reset this to resume testing.



I've been running the Trident for a little over a month and in the beginning I could see my parameters were all over the place. They would swing up and down like crazy.



At the top you can see my most recent tests and how I've been able to dial in my dosing to fractions of a ml and get it very even over multiple days. This combined with being more in tuned with my tank has shown great improvement in my corals.

[shaner014]

This is really an amazing piece of tech! Thanks for posting on it.

 

Curious to see someone like BRS run the numbers on costs and ROI vs a more standard approach to testing and adjusting dosing. 

 

Your graphs have no scale, so its hard to see how wild the swings are when you brought the trident online. What were the harsher peak to valley swings?  Do you think at the height of your tanks success (which most would argue is among the top 1% ever for a nano) you had those same swings occurring? What I'm trying to ask is... is the stability "worth" it. I know that's a loaded question, and excluding cost, is always worth it to the coral. You and everyone else to this point with nice tanks have clearly been successful not using this tech previously, so obviously it's possible. Might this propel these already amazing tanks to a level of color and growth never seen? Or are we already at a diminishing returns point with parameter stability? 

 

Thanks again!

[HarryPotter]

@Scorched are you sure they are okay with you disclosing the solenoid/pump/drift thing? 🤔

[Scorched]

The mini graphs have no scale and it automatically adjusts based on the highs and lows for the week.  So it can be a bit misleading but you can move the mouse or finger over those graphs to see the numbers along the line.  My last image shows me hovering over the last Ca test.  If you click the mini graphs large ones open similar to the normal testing logs.  These are still having details worked out so I am unable to show those at this time.

 

As for stability its going to really be up to the hobbyist.  My tanks prime was back in 2016 before my upgrade and move.  It hasn't looked that good since.  This can be due to a lot of factors and outside influence.  "Life" gets in the way sometimes.

 

When my tank was in its prime, and Im sure for a lot of other high quality tanks there comes a time when things just click.  All the parameters, organisms, and biological systems all reach equilibrium and the tank thrives because of it.  I hit the perfect combination of filtration, feeding, dosing, and maintenance where it kept my tank stable.  In the last 2 years my tank was out of balance.  Nutrients were too high, Alk and Ca were being under dosed, and livestock suffered and lead to a chain reaction of bad things.

 

The Trident is not necessary for those that can tune their tank to its needs.  People have been manually testing for years on regular scedules in order to find out what their tank consumes in a given period and what is needed to be replenished in that same time.  The Trident remove human testing error (we don't always preform the test exactly the same way) and it removes laziness.  The Trident is going to always do the same tests on the same schedule as the same time intervals.  The data then clearly shows trends over time.  You can use this to dial in dosing to reach equilibrium.  After that has been achieved it then provides a safety net for when things go wrong with dosing or if things are going well and things need to be adjusted to compensate.

 

Will it be worth it to increase color and growth if you already have success?  Maybe not.  But if I can see a change in my corals health and that makes me happier and more successful I find it very valuable.  In 2017-2018 I probably lost over $1000 worth of corals.  Not only did those die but I also had to rebuy new corals and start over with their growth.  Lots of other hobbyists usually give up after a few failures and set backs.  If this can overall increase the likelihood that people will be successful you will see a lot more long term thriving tanks. 

[Scorched]

8 minutes ago, HarryPotter said:

@Scorched are you sure they are okay with you disclosing the solenoid/pump/drift thing? 🤔

That is public info that was shared back in 2017 by the designer at the Trident reveal 😛

1:12:18 if it doesn't start at the correct spot.  His whole section is great to listen to if you haven't seen this video.

 

 

 

[HarryPotter]

1 minute ago, Scorched said:

That is public info that was shared back in 2017 by the designer at the Trident reveal 😛

 1:12:18 if it doesn't start at the correct spot.  His whole section is great to listen to if you haven't seen this video.

  

 

 

 

 

Ahh okay 🙂. Did they figure out the Calcium issue? Was it involving a calibration solution or using your existing test kits to make an offset? 

[Scorched]

Just now, HarryPotter said:

Ahh okay 🙂. Did they figure out the Calcium issue? Was it involving a calibration solution or using your existing test kits to make an offset? 

 

We have not gone into a calibrating phase in testing at this time.  If we do, and I am able, I will share the process and results.

[Yaman]

Looks great....apex el is all i need to hook up this unit?

[Scorched]

1 minute ago, Yaman said:

Looks great....apex el is all i need to hook up this unit?

 

It requires the newest head unit.  So full 2016 Apex $799 bundle, $499 EL bundle, or the latest head unit $399 attached to a classic.  Buying the full Apex or EL means you get the EB832 powerbar ($249) and you can then connect the Trident via 1link and get rid of the aquabus and power supply.

[HarryPotter]

2 hours ago, Scorched said:

 

We have not gone into a calibrating phase in testing at this time.  If we do, and I am able, I will share the process and results.

 

If you haven’t gone into calibrating.... care to share how close the results you’re getting from the Trident are to Hanna/Salifert/ICP? 

[tanacharison]

Thanks for sharing.... Following this.

[fr0ntsight]

On 2/19/2019 at 1:32 PM, HarryPotter said:

If you haven’t gone into calibrating.... care to share how close the results you’re getting from the Trident are to Hanna/Salifert/ICP? 

 

 

[HarryPotter]

10 minutes ago, fr0ntsight said:

 

 

 

Testers have gone quiet recently, lol. Hope things are still on track.

[Scorched]

 

[Scorched]

 

43:20 - Ya he is a really cool guy lol

[PicoSavvy]

Hmm I still find it interesting that they went with the solenoid route. Is the ratio of sample water and reagent 1 to 1? Because that is the only way I see not mattering if it starts to drift.

[Scorched]

12 hours ago, PicoSavvy said:

Hmm I still find it interesting that they went with the solenoid route. Is the ratio of sample water and reagent 1 to 1? Because that is the only way I see not mattering if it starts to drift.

 

I was on NSI and created the video posted above.  I'm not 100% sure on an equal 1:1 water to sample ratio but having a single peristaltic pump was the reason that it could stay so accurate and consistent.  If some value started to drift: amount of sample water, amount of reagent A, B, C etc they would all drift up or down proportionally in unison.  Thus giving you an accurate test repeatedly over and over, over a long stretch of time.  Other automated testers that use multiple pumps or additional pieces of equipment like ph probes can be very accurate as well but it introduces extra points of failure.  If one of those pumps starts dosing a tiny bit more or the ph probe starts to drift all of the tests are going to skew further and further away from accuracy.

[PicoSavvy]

No I understood what you said in that part, I was just thinking more in the event of multiple solenoid failure and the results still being accurate that is why I assume a 1 to 1 ratio. I wish the inventor jim would post the patent number would be interesting to see if there is some type of fail-safe for that or how that cleaning on that centerpiece where all the tube meets how does the cleaning and flushing of that go. I think the biggest thing that helps with reliability is the fact he used a colorimeter instead of another system that uses ph probes. A colorimeter is also very simple things consisting of 2 main components a light source and a color sensor.