Ratvan Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Ok we will ignore that I struggle to take a decent photo. Hopefully this makes it clearer Fresh Cut Frag, has been rested but has not encrusted ONTO the plug just yet. I plan on waiting till i see the frag encrusting the plug before I fully mount this coral So this frag has encrusted ONTO the Frag plug, I can see where it has grown from the frag onto the plug. For this one I will wait until I can see the Coral Encrusting the plug further, that is when I will know when to mount, I could wait until the plug is fully encrusted but I feel that will take a bit too long. Encrusted OVER plug. Not really sure when to mount this one lol. Probably in a few weeks when I have discovered what height it likes. Both myself and the guy i got it from were surprised with the size of the thing! Hope that makes sense and I'm not just spouting drivel (as normal) 4 1 Quote Link to comment
EthanPhillyCheesesteak Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Ratvan said: Ok we will ignore that I struggle to take a decent photo. Hopefully this makes it clearer Fresh Cut Frag, has been rested but has not encrusted ONTO the plug just yet. I plan on waiting till i see the frag encrusting the plug before I fully mount this coral So this frag has encrusted ONTO the Frag plug, I can see where it has grown from the frag onto the plug. For this one I will wait until I can see the Coral Encrusting the plug further, that is when I will know when to mount, I could wait until the plug is fully encrusted but I feel that will take a bit too long. Encrusted OVER plug. Not really sure when to mount this one lol. Probably in a few weeks when I have discovered what height it likes. Both myself and the guy i got it from were surprised with the size of the thing! Hope that makes sense and I'm not just spouting drivel (as normal) Thank you, that did help a lot 1 Quote Link to comment
EthanPhillyCheesesteak Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 I literally almost cried last night when I was feeding my tank. I was feeding flake food to my tank and I had it also make sure Jerry got some, so I put some down in front of him to get. He immediately saw it, but had a horrible time trying to get to the food. I felt horrible, it was so sad to see him like this. He was using everything he had to pull himself to the food. He was using his claws to drag his body around because he’s still missing 2 legs on one side of his body. I actually think that he grew some of his legs back, because on the other side, he has 3 legs and he used to only have 2 on that side. He finally got to the food after struggling to crawl towards it and he started eating a little bit and then my cleaner shrimp attacked and stole most of the food. Jerry couldn’t even do anything but sit there and let him take his food. I felt horrible. A few minutes later I made sure to give Jerry more food. I just feel horrible. I can’t even imagine how Jerry must feel. That feeling of helplessness because he can barely move himself forward. I’m trying to do whatever I can do get him to grow his legs back. I’ve been feeding him a lot to get him to grow his legs back. 2 1 Quote Link to comment
Tired Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Flake food isn't very nutritious and has a lot of filler. The better thing to do for your crab is to feed him directly, as in put the food right next to him with tweezers, and protect him from thieves. You could put a cup top-down over him while he's eating so nothing can get at him. Also, make sure your calcium levels are good for when he does molt, and that he has a lot of places to hide so other things in the tank can't get at him while he's soft. And he's not feeling helpless, because he's a crab. He isn't capable of thinking "I am missing legs and cannot move properly", he's just trying to exist. That's what they do. 6 Quote Link to comment
Tamberav Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Aww poor Jerry ! Growing that many legs back is probably going to take awhile, especially if he is an older crab. As long as he is fed and safe, he will be happy as a crab. 3 Quote Link to comment
mitten_reef Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 2 hours ago, EthanPhillyCheesesteak said: I literally almost cried last night when I was feeding my tank. I was feeding flake food to my tank and I had it also make sure Jerry got some, so I put some down in front of him to get. He immediately saw it, but had a horrible time trying to get to the food. I felt horrible, it was so sad to see him like this. He was using everything he had to pull himself to the food. He was using his claws to drag his body around because he’s still missing 2 legs on one side of his body. I actually think that he grew some of his legs back, because on the other side, he has 3 legs and he used to only have 2 on that side. He finally got to the food after struggling to crawl towards it and he started eating a little bit and then my cleaner shrimp attacked and stole most of the food. Jerry couldn’t even do anything but sit there and let him take his food. I felt horrible. A few minutes later I made sure to give Jerry more food. I just feel horrible. I can’t even imagine how Jerry must feel. That feeling of helplessness because he can barely move himself forward. I’m trying to do whatever I can do get him to grow his legs back. I’ve been feeding him a lot to get him to grow his legs back. The only way he can regenerate limbs, would be to molt. molting require some specific element(s), especially iodine, to be at optimum level. A direct quote from Liveaquaria' description of their molting inverts is below. if you ever browse their inverts section, most of them will be provided with this recommendation, among others. "Also, proper iodine supplementation is necessary to promote molting and growth" So, have you seen him molt? Has there been some other critters in the tank that harass him to remove his legs? It sounds to me he's been limb-less since he came to you. I haven't followed Jerry's story too much. Quote Link to comment
EthanPhillyCheesesteak Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 2 hours ago, Tired said: Flake food isn't very nutritious and has a lot of filler. The better thing to do for your crab is to feed him directly, as in put the food right next to him with tweezers, and protect him from thieves. You could put a cup top-down over him while he's eating so nothing can get at him. Also, make sure your calcium levels are good for when he does molt, and that he has a lot of places to hide so other things in the tank can't get at him while he's soft. And he's not feeling helpless, because he's a crab. He isn't capable of thinking "I am missing legs and cannot move properly", he's just trying to exist. That's what they do. I switch off from flake and mysis and cod. Last night was a flake night. And I know for a fact my calcium and iodine levels are great. Literally my cleaner shrimp molts like every 2 weeks, he’s huge now. Nothing in my tank has ever messed with Jerry. He never gets attacked. And how do we know that a crabs brain doesn’t know how to feel helpless or anything like that? How would he not be able to think? Every animal can think. A dog thinks and has its own thoughts. How do we know he doesn’t feel upset about missing those legs? I feel like fish can think? I’m one of those people who believe that all living animals can think and can feel. I feel like everything has a soul, I’m sorry if that upsets you by what I say. 2 Quote Link to comment
EthanPhillyCheesesteak Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 37 minutes ago, Tamberav said: Aww poor Jerry ! Growing that many legs back is probably going to take awhile, especially if he is an older crab. As long as he is fed and safe, he will be happy as a crab. I really don’t think he’s that old, I’ve seen other pictures of crabs that look like Jerry and they are much bigger than Jerry Quote Link to comment
EthanPhillyCheesesteak Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 34 minutes ago, mitten_reef said: The only way he can regenerate limbs, would be to molt. molting require some specific element(s), especially iodine, to be at optimum level. A direct quote from Liveaquaria' description of their molting inverts is below. if you ever browse their inverts section, most of them will be provided with this recommendation, among others. "Also, proper iodine supplementation is necessary to promote molting and growth" So, have you seen him molt? Has there been some other critters in the tank that harass him to remove his legs? It sounds to me he's been limb-less since he came to you. I haven't followed Jerry's story too much. As I said, I know that my iodine levels are where they are supposed to be. Nothing harasses him at all. He’s pretty much just left alone unless he has food that something wants. Jerry was perfect when I first got him from tamberav, but I tried to put him into my other tank that I have and he was fine for a few days, but then he started losing limbs, so I added him to my main tank to save him. He could barely move. I had to feed him by holding him in my hand and putting food up to his mouth. He couldnt even grab food with his claws. He wasn’t doing well, but I’ve been nurturing him to bring him back to good health. I honestly don’t know what was wrong with my water in my other tank. I have multiple crabs in that tank, but for some reason Jerry just didn’t like it. Quote Link to comment
Tamberav Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 20 minutes ago, EthanPhillyCheesesteak said: I really don’t think he’s that old, I’ve seen other pictures of crabs that look like Jerry and they are much bigger than Jerry Ya I can't be positive so I don't 100% know is ID but older crabs typically molt less frequently but they molt less than shrimp do anyways. It would likely take several molts for him to get all his legs fully back. 1 Quote Link to comment
Tamberav Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 11 minutes ago, EthanPhillyCheesesteak said: As I said, I know that my iodine levels are where they are supposed to be. Nothing harasses him at all. He’s pretty much just left alone unless he has food that something wants. Jerry was perfect when I first got him from tamberav, but I tried to put him into my other tank that I have and he was fine for a few days, but then he started losing limbs, so I added him to my main tank to save him. He could barely move. I had to feed him by holding him in my hand and putting food up to his mouth. He couldnt even grab food with his claws. He wasn’t doing well, but I’ve been nurturing him to bring him back to good health. I honestly don’t know what was wrong with my water in my other tank. I have multiple crabs in that tank, but for some reason Jerry just didn’t like it. Other then missing legs, it sounds like he can fully move the claws he does have? Cleaner shrimps are jerks when it comes to food. I swear I could give them food and they would still try to grab more and more even though they couldn't fit more in their mouth. Quote Link to comment
Tired Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Animals can think, yes, but they aren't that aware. They don't need to be. There is a very big difference between thinking and the level of awareness of self required to understand "I am missing legs, and that's why I can't move. I feel bad that I can't move." Cats don't notice missing limbs. For example, a cat missing a back leg will sometimes still try to scratch its ear with that back leg, as can be seen by the way they move and the motion of the stump, and don't seem to understand why it doesn't work. Crabs are not more intelligent than cats. Anything with a brain can think, but thinking and awareness of self to the extent you're describing are two very different things. Quote Link to comment
EthanPhillyCheesesteak Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 33 minutes ago, Tamberav said: Other then missing legs, it sounds like he can fully move the claws he does have? Cleaner shrimps are jerks when it comes to food. I swear I could give them food and they would still try to grab more and more even though they couldn't fit more in their mouth. Yea, he can move his claws and the rest of his body just as well as any other crab. And yes, my cleaner shrimp is also an extreme jerk Quote Link to comment
EthanPhillyCheesesteak Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 32 minutes ago, Tired said: Animals can think, yes, but they aren't that aware. They don't need to be. There is a very big difference between thinking and the level of awareness of self required to understand "I am missing legs, and that's why I can't move. I feel bad that I can't move." Cats don't notice missing limbs. For example, a cat missing a back leg will sometimes still try to scratch its ear with that back leg, as can be seen by the way they move and the motion of the stump, and don't seem to understand why it doesn't work. Crabs are not more intelligent than cats. Anything with a brain can think, but thinking and awareness of self to the extent you're describing are two very different things. You really think that a cat doesn’t notice that it’s missing a leg? My grandma has a cat that’s missing a leg and I know for a fact that it knows that it’s missing it’s leg. It looks at it’s missing leg like it misses it leg that it’s lost. I know that things notice this kinda stuff Quote Link to comment
mitten_reef Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 47 minutes ago, EthanPhillyCheesesteak said: I have multiple crabs in that tank, but for some reason Jerry just didn’t like it. so Jerry was in a tank with multiple other crabs? And he lost his limbs, could be some fighting? And once moved back to the main tank, hasn't molted since? like i said, they only regenerate through molting. And crab like Jerry, you should see the old shell hanging around for sure, my hermits exoskeletons drift around for a day or so before fully broken down to smaller pieces. While I'm not the best person to make a point about testing and results, your continued assertion that your results are "where they should be" or "perfect" is useless to most other people. that information is not quantified similarly from one person to another, so it means nothing to me (and most everyone else) until you show the actual numbers or picture of the testing. If you don't know, say you don't know. If you test it, say the numbers or snap a picture. Don't say they're great, perfect, or whatever - that provide no means for others to help asses/quantify your actual testing results. Quote Link to comment
EthanPhillyCheesesteak Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 55 minutes ago, mitten_reef said: so Jerry was in a tank with multiple other crabs? And he lost his limbs, could be some fighting? And once moved back to the main tank, hasn't molted since? like i said, they only regenerate through molting. And crab like Jerry, you should see the old shell hanging around for sure, my hermits exoskeletons drift around for a day or so before fully broken down to smaller pieces. While I'm not the best person to make a point about testing and results, your continued assertion that your results are "where they should be" or "perfect" is useless to most other people. that information is not quantified similarly from one person to another, so it means nothing to me (and most everyone else) until you show the actual numbers or picture of the testing. If you don't know, say you don't know. If you test it, say the numbers or snap a picture. Don't say they're great, perfect, or whatever - that provide no means for others to help asses/quantify your actual testing results. No, he was in the tank by himself at the time. I put the other crabs in a few weeks later. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear enough. I’ll make sure to test my water for you when I get home. 1 Quote Link to comment
Tired Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Your cat is not looking at its leg and thinking "I wish I had a leg". Cats aren't that aware. You're anthropomorphising. Quote Link to comment
A.m.P Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Tired, do you mind throwing up any sources? I keep up-to-date on most neuroscience-related goodies interpretable-enough to versed-laypeople, but mostly pertaining to we sapiens (and our slow-acceptance that soft-determinism may be the best we can hope for philosophically). That said I haven't seen much if anything at all regarding phantom-locomotion and awareness in animals, no offence but in the absence of studies most of what you stated sounded awfully anecdotal and I'd love to see the trials and research methodology behind unraveling the function, in absence, of those extra cerebral-layers we take so for-granted. Given our currently nebulous, at best, understanding of what constitutes or defines "awareness" outside of some decidedly-sapien "tests" with methodology poor enough the land them in the same circles as "alpha theory" and other circa -60'-80's attempts at describing animal-behavior I'm decidedly a tad-bit skeptical. 2 1 Quote Link to comment
Tamberav Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Cats probably have phantom limb feelings or even pain like anything else. Personally I don't pretend to know what my cats or dogs are thinking and I doubt science really knows shit either. I swear my golden retriever knows English better than me though. 2 3 1 Quote Link to comment
EthanPhillyCheesesteak Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Amphrites said: Tired, do you mind throwing up any sources? I keep up-to-date on most neuroscience-related goodies interpretable-enough to versed-laypeople, but mostly pertaining to we sapiens (and our slow-acceptance that soft-determinism may be the best we can hope for philosophically). That said I haven't seen much if anything at all regarding phantom-locomotion and awareness in animals, no offence but in the absence of studies most of what you stated sounded awfully anecdotal and I'd love to see the trials and research methodology behind unraveling the function, in absence, of those extra cerebral-layers we take so for-granted. Given our currently nebulous, at best, understanding of what constitutes or defines "awareness" outside of some decidedly-sapien "tests" with methodology poor enough the land them in the same circles as "alpha theory" and other circa -60'-80's attempts at describing animal-behavior I'm decidedly a tad-bit skeptical. Thank you, you were pretty much saying what I was saying, but a whole lot smarter than me😂 Got some pictures from the tank. It looks great. Quote Link to comment
EthanPhillyCheesesteak Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 Found the emerald crab just waving his arms in the air like he just don’t care😂 Also the ring asterina star Haven’t seen him in a while 5 Quote Link to comment
EthanPhillyCheesesteak Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 Well hello there😂 2 1 Quote Link to comment
EthanPhillyCheesesteak Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 Also, why does my goby have a blemish on his cheek??? Conch was also out and about 4 Quote Link to comment
EthanPhillyCheesesteak Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 This is what the miyagi tort acro is supposed to look like when I get it. He sent me an exact picture of the frag that I would most likely get. It almost looks more like a Cali tort than a miyagi tort. I’m also probably gonna get all of these mushrooms. The bounce ones that are kinda like interstellar bounces except they are different colors, a small green bounce and a large black and green frilly mushroom. I’m also probably gonna get a Duncan that’s in the bottom left corner 2 1 Quote Link to comment
EthanPhillyCheesesteak Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 Its gonna be a moderately big order, it’s my Christmas present from my dad pretty much. He asked me what I wanted and I told him corals and he just stared at me like I was crazy😂 Quote Link to comment
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