RedPhotog Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Hello! I just wanted to see what the community has to offer in terms of caring for Ricordia Yumas. I am really at a wits end trying to get this coral to blossom the way it did for me during the first week or two I had it in my tank. After acclimating it to my light and positioning it in its official spot, the mushroom did not open up as much as it did during acclimation. This made me put it back to the corner of my tank out of direct light. I now have it underneath some shadowing, under a rock overhang in hopes it will bloom. There is not any slime or mucus excreting from the mushroom. I did however notice brown decaying food perhaps being pushed out of the mouth, could that maybe be why its been so closed and not as open as I once saw it after putting it in my tank? I have read hit and miss things about ricordias, particularly yumas in terms of care. Are these corals really that hard to get acclimated to a system? I have a somewhat young reef, been up for about 7-8 months. All corals i have put in my tank have been doing really well. I have an elegance coral, montipora purple haze, zoanthid, kenya tree, and blasto. All have noticeable growth and are very healthy. My params are rock solid, I do a 20% water change religiously every 10 days, replace evaporation RO water by hand, i feed once a day. My levels are 0 ammonia, 5-10 nitrate, 9 DKH, 450 calcium 1380 MG, phosphates arent on the salifert radar. The coral hasnt started bleaching yet, I am gonna keep it under the ledge or awhile in hopes it will swing back to its blooming glory, about 4 inches diameter. Now its about 1 inch. I have noticed on the rock it was given to me on from the LFS, there are little green dots, that glow exactly like its flesh is under the cap. Not sure what these are, if the foot has left something behind or what. I read that these reproduce by splitting? Its almost as if the coral knows these green fleshy dots are under it and its not blooming so it wont cover the green dots. Could these be new mushrooms growing? Thank you in advance. Have a great day! Quote Link to comment
hayseed777 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 They're picky little $#!×s. I've noticed they like being lower on the rock work and in a low flow/ light area. They seem to get annoyed any time something (detritus, sand, etc.) lands on them. So positioning them at an angle to prevent things from landing flat on them seems to help. Also, gentle turkey bastering to get any detritus off of them helps keep them happy. I've had yumas melt away on me for no obvious reason. Once they start gaping and expelling their zooanthelle, it's all down hill, in my experience. Quote Link to comment
mcarroll Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 hour ago, RedPhotog said: I did however notice brown decaying food perhaps being pushed out of the mouth, That's probably him in the process of bleaching, expelling dino's from his mouth. (That's how it happens.) 1 hour ago, RedPhotog said: 5-10 nitrate Good. 1 hour ago, RedPhotog said: phosphates arent on the salifert radar. This is why he's bleaching. PO4 is used in the chemical reaction of PSI and PSII as well as for building their photoprotection systems/pigments when they have to adapt to new light conditions (e.g. different color, different intensity, different light angles, et al). The accumulating nitrates are related. Every form of life needs to use up some phosphates at the same time they use up nitrates in order to grow, repair, reproduce, etc....(in approximately the Redfield Ratio)...so that's not happening, leaving nitrates behind in the water to accumulate unused. The nitrates are probably making the situation worse since the dino's in the coral tend to grow in numbers under (relatively) higher nitrate levels, causing an even greater need for phosphates by the coral. Your nitrate levels are find IF there was a normal supply of phosphates...so you either need to STOP removing phosophates from your system (GFO, et al) or you need to add some. Using something like Seachem Flourish Phosphate is the most direct, most precise and quickest way to address the issue. Target 0.03 ppm of PO4. Dose it, then test again to see the increase on your test. (It'll be a faint difference, so have good light to do your readings in.) Test again in an hour to see if it's back down to zero. If it is, re-dose and re-test again in an hour. (Etc.) I doubt you'll have to go as far as re-dosing, but you might. The idea is that you want around 0.03 ppm of residual phosphate in the water after you're done. (Most of the time, in fact.) Just make sure you affirm it with your test kit. Reducing light or moving the coral or overfeeding "can" address the issue, but all are less precise, less direct and MUCH less quick to have an effect. (Because P is what the coral really needs....not less light or a move or an overfed tank.) Quote Link to comment
RedPhotog Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, mcarroll said: That's probably him in the process of bleaching, expelling dino's from his mouth. (That's how it happens.) Good. This is why he's bleaching. PO4 is used in the chemical reaction of PSI and PSII as well as for building their photoprotection systems/pigments when they have to adapt to new light conditions (e.g. different color, different intensity, different light angles, et al). The accumulating nitrates are related. Every form of life needs to use up some phosphates at the same time they use up nitrates in order to grow, repair, reproduce, etc....(in approximately the Redfield Ratio)...so that's not happening, leaving nitrates behind in the water to accumulate unused. The nitrates are probably making the situation worse since the dino's in the coral tend to grow in numbers under (relatively) higher nitrate levels, causing an even greater need for phosphates by the coral. Your nitrate levels are find IF there was a normal supply of phosphates...so you either need to STOP removing phosophates from your system (GFO, et al) or you need to add some. Using something like Seachem Flourish Phosphate is the most direct, most precise and quickest way to address the issue. Target 0.03 ppm of PO4. Dose it, then test again to see the increase on your test. (It'll be a faint difference, so have good light to do your readings in.) Test again in an hour to see if it's back down to zero. If it is, re-dose and re-test again in an hour. (Etc.) I doubt you'll have to go as far as re-dosing, but you might. The idea is that you want around 0.03 ppm of residual phosphate in the water after you're done. (Most of the time, in fact.) Just make sure you affirm it with your test kit. Reducing light or moving the coral or overfeeding "can" address the issue, but all are less precise, less direct and MUCH less quick to have an effect. (Because P is what the coral really needs....not less light or a move or an overfed tank.) I only run a sponge and bagged activated carbon. I have a very simple 12g with an aqua clear hob, I have a koralia nano for flow. I was hoping to run this tank without dosing, managing trace elements and nutrients with WCs. I use Red Sea coral pro, and my alkalinity never goes below 9 or above 10 with the rate I do them. Would cutting back on the WC help with the phosphate issues? Bi weekly changes? 1 Quote Link to comment
mcarroll Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 18 minutes ago, RedPhotog said: Would cutting back on the WC help with the phosphate issues? Bi weekly changes? That fits in with overfeeding, moving the coral, etc. It "can" address the issue, but less directly, less precisely and (most importantly) more slowly. Your coral may get worse, bleach or even die in the mean time if that measure isn't enough. And you'll have no way of knowing if it is or not until it's too late. In contrast, you can dose a precise amount of phosphate, which will immediately remedy the corals internal issues. Easy and cheap, too. Regardless, definitely STOP on the water changes since that'll just make things worse. (Although you can dose phosphates into the water change water at the correct rate to avoid causing further problems.) Do a water change based ONLY on your test results. Alk being low is a great reason to do one UNLESS nitrates or phosphates are already at zero. In that case, I'd dose some alkalinity....maybe some nutrients as well. Doesn't sound like you're gonna have high nutrients (eg nitrates >50 ppm or phosphates >1.0 ppm A little bottle of phosphates is about $5 and you won't have to dose more than a few times most likely (once might even do it), so there shouldn't be any big reason to avoid doing this. What are the tank's current nutrient inputs like? (eg feeding) BTW: Setting up a stony coral tank with no intention of dosing is kinda wishing for a bad ending - most stony tanks need it if they are successful to any significant degree. IMO, either come up with a plan for dosing that suits you or cut WAAAAY back on your stony coral population....like close to zero. (There are MANY MANY ways to dose...doesn't have to be expensive OR complicated...we can even help you pick one.) Quote Link to comment
Nano sapiens Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 IME, if tank parameters are within 'normal', more than anything it's just the specific type of Yuma that determines if it will adapt to your reef aquarium. Wild Yumas are very often difficult. I find that the most difficult ones are those that sport a straight line of larger bubbled tentacles from the mouth to the outer rim. Those with all the relatively same sized and colored tentacles tend to adapt better. Buying aquacultured is best if you can find one. The 'little green dots' are fairly common on rock, especially Yuma rock. In the few times I've seen them they have always disappeared in a few short weeks. Try not to move them around too much... Quote Link to comment
RedPhotog Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 34 minutes ago, Nano sapiens said: IME, if tank parameters are within 'normal', more than anything it's just the specific type of Yuma that determines if it will adapt to your reef aquarium. Wild Yumas are very often difficult. I find that the most difficult ones are those that sport a straight line of larger bubbled tentacles from the mouth to the outer rim. Those with all the relatively same sized and colored tentacles tend to adapt better. Buying aquacultured is best if you can find one. The 'little green dots' are fairly common on rock, especially Yuma rock. In the few times I've seen them they have always disappeared in a few short weeks. Try to move them around too much... My Yuma resembles what you are writing about. The bigger tentacles seem to radiate from the center, where the mouth is circled by smaller tentacles. There seems to be a star pattern stretching out from the mouth with bigger ball like tentacles. This thing was was absolutely gorgeous the first week in my tank and actually bloomed way bigger than when it was in the LFS tank. Pic below of its current state... 1 Quote Link to comment
RedPhotog Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 hour ago, mcarroll said: That fits in with overfeeding, moving the coral, etc. It "can" address the issue, but less directly, less precisely and (most importantly) more slowly. Your coral may get worse, bleach or even die in the mean time if that measure isn't enough. And you'll have no way of knowing if it is or not until it's too late. In contrast, you can dose a precise amount of phosphate, which will immediately remedy the corals internal issues. Easy and cheap, too. Regardless, definitely STOP on the water changes since that'll just make things worse. (Although you can dose phosphates into the water change water at the correct rate to avoid causing further problems.) Do a water change based ONLY on your test results. Alk being low is a great reason to do one UNLESS nitrates or phosphates are already at zero. In that case, I'd dose some alkalinity....maybe some nutrients as well. Doesn't sound like you're gonna have high nutrients (eg nitrates >50 ppm or phosphates >1.0 ppm A little bottle of phosphates is about $5 and you won't have to dose more than a few times most likely (once might even do it), so there shouldn't be any big reason to avoid doing this. What are the tank's current nutrient inputs like? (eg feeding) BTW: Setting up a stony coral tank with no intention of dosing is kinda wishing for a bad ending - most stony tanks need it if they are successful to any significant degree. IMO, either come up with a plan for dosing that suits you or cut WAAAAY back on your stony coral population....like close to zero. (There are MANY MANY ways to dose...doesn't have to be expensive OR complicated...we can even help you pick one.) I feed once a day alternating from the hikari s pellets and frozen mysis. I also feed reef chili to the colors about 1-2 a week. I habe a clownfish and 6 line, emerald crab, hermits and trochus, pistol shrimp. Trying to keep things simple, I don’t have a whole lot of room. The dosing sounds interesting I just envisioned myself keeping things basic with WC but my tank is starting to get “too clean” with the rate that I’m going. Ill look into phosphate, I like sea chem products thanks for the advice and suggestions. Pic of the Yuma is below in another reply. Does it look like the coral is stretching for light? 1 Quote Link to comment
Snow_Phoenix Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I target feed my rics chopped pieces of shrimp biweekly. Just put a very small piece on its mouth, and the shroom will close up and ingest it (barring no hermit gets to it first). My largest yuma has been with me for almost a year now and has doubled in size since I first bought it. It's now around 6"++ when spread out. All my specimens are from the Indo-Pacific and are wild-collected. The key to keeping them healthy and long-lasting is by making sure they get enough light in a low-flow area, and have enough nitrates/phosphates in your tank. I generally have a 'dirty' tank, so most of my shrooms and softies benefit heavily from it. 1 Quote Link to comment
sam_the_reefer Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 What light do you have? I think you have it in a good shaded spot if you have intense, non-diffused light. Under my old lights (par38 bulbs), my yumas didn't like direct light, they spat out brown colored stuff and didn't open much until I put them in the shade. But when I upgraded to an AI prime, they started thriving. under old par38 lights, I thought the yuma under direct light was doing fine, until it spat out brown stuff, but I noticed the smaller yuma in the shade was more expanded and looked better, so I moved the whole thing further in the rockwork. Same Yuma, currently under an AI prime (the weaker non-HD model). I think they prefer diffused, mid-intensity light. Quote Link to comment
sam_the_reefer Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Also, those green dots are indeed baby yumas, and yup, the older yumas "make way" for it. 1 Quote Link to comment
Snow_Phoenix Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 18 minutes ago, xellos88 said: What light do you have? I think you have it in a good shaded spot if you have intense, non-diffused light. Under my old lights (par38 bulbs), my yumas didn't like direct light, they spat out brown colored stuff and didn't open much until I put them in the shade. But when I upgraded to an AI prime, they started thriving. under old par38 lights, I thought the yuma under direct light was doing fine, until it spat out brown stuff, but I noticed the smaller yuma in the shade was more expanded and looked better, so I moved the whole thing further in the rockwork. Same Yuma, currently under an AI prime (the weaker non-HD model). I think they prefer diffused, mid-intensity light. I agree about the mid-intensity lighting, but mine thrived and grew under direct PAR38 LEDs. The only difference is that I placed all my yumas in the low-flow area of my tank. It took me a while to figure out a perfect spot for them. Quote Link to comment
Clown79 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I've had some rice that are super happy and others that are moody. The ones I have, some like moderate light while others favour low light. Flow can also affect them. In moderate flow mine expand more and high flow they seem to shrink. Nutrients is also important for them. 1 Quote Link to comment
sam_the_reefer Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I did have 2 PAR 38s over my tank, so that could have been why it wasn't happy in direct light. The distance of the bulb to the water surface also greatly affects the intensity. 1 Quote Link to comment
mcarroll Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Spitting out brown stuff is theme expelling dino's in an attempt to avoid bleaching, which is them expelling ALL dino's in an attempt to avoid being killed by them. As we mostly know, corals do not photosynthesize -- it's their dinoflagellate symbionts that do it. What we mostly DON'T know is that photosynthesis is a b**** and can kill a coral in short order. So the coral's job, rather than photosynthesis, is to keep their dino's happy while not being killed by the byproducts. Without the right materials (of which phosphate may be the most important) bleaching is certain, and death is likely. (Though corals do not require dino's to survive, they are not usually growing in areas with sufficient nutrients for them to succeed without the added metabolites from photosynthesis. It's a tricky spot to be in! Totally amazing that they pull it off...and have been for maybe 400-500 million years.) Check this article out: Is the coral-algae symbiosis really ‘mutually beneficial’ for the partners? 1 Quote Link to comment
RedPhotog Posted February 8, 2019 Author Share Posted February 8, 2019 22 hours ago, xellos88 said: What light do you have? I think you have it in a good shaded spot if you have intense, non-diffused light. Under my old lights (par38 bulbs), my yumas didn't like direct light, they spat out brown colored stuff and didn't open much until I put them in the shade. But when I upgraded to an AI prime, they started thriving. under old par38 lights, I thought the yuma under direct light was doing fine, until it spat out brown stuff, but I noticed the smaller yuma in the shade was more expanded and looked better, so I moved the whole thing further in the rockwork. Same Yuma, currently under an AI prime (the weaker non-HD model). I think they prefer diffused, mid-intensity light. I have a Kessil A80. My tank is 11.5 inches deep, light is about 5 inches above the surface. Everything seems to be responding well to the light. The Yuma was open and full and completely bridged the rock it was on for the first week in the tank. I should have left it in that spot longer. I really hope it pulls through. However this is my first tank with corals and I have yet to have fatality in this system. Fingers crossed. 1 Quote Link to comment
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