Kdsd731 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 I have been treating my 2 clowns, royal gramma and flame angel for ich with cupramine. The angel was the only one showing symptoms but I quarantined and medicated all for the past week. I didn't read that dwarf angels are sensitive to copper meds until after I had dosed the tank per the bottles instructions of 1/2 dose then the other 1/2 48 hours later. For the next 5 days my flame angel didn't eat and was lethargic. The other fish were just fine. A few days ago I started removing the medication in an effort to rehabilitate the angel. Today he finally started eating again and is moving around the tank. Now, I still need to medicate them for the ich. Can someone recommend another medication that may be suitable for the angel? Or you think it was just a matter of how quickly the cupramine was dosed? The past 36 hours or so the cupramine was barely traceable and he wasn't eating. I don't know if I started over again and ever so slightly increased to a 1/2 dose that he would be fine or if I would have the same issue again and should use something else. Any input? Quote Link to comment
Tamberav Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 I like tank transfer method. 1 Quote Link to comment
Kdsd731 Posted January 23, 2019 Author Share Posted January 23, 2019 I do too, but it's not doable for me both space, time and cost wise. Quote Link to comment
Humblefish Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Chloroquine phosphate is optimal to use on angels: https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2013/2/fish But it can be difficult to obtain. My backup plan is a chelated copper product, such as Copper Power. IME; angelfish handle that better than ionic copper e.g. Cupramine. 2 Quote Link to comment
Tamberav Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Kdsd731 said: I do too, but it's not doable for me both space, time and cost wise. I just use 2-5g of water in cheap rubber made bins with throw away airstones and cheap salt with tap water and prime. I rotate two cheapo small heaters and just dry everything in between. 3 Quote Link to comment
mcarroll Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Just curious how the four fish in question are acting and how they look? Pics? Quote Link to comment
GlassHouse Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Tank transfer or get your hands on chloroquine phosphate from a reputable source. As has been stated previously, you can easily do tank transfer method with with 3.5-5 gallon buckets, heater, and an airstone. There really isn't any other option that is sure to work. Quarantine your fish in the future and set up a quarantine tank for incoming inverts and coral (5 weeks minimum), otherwise you'll be dealing with this in the future and I'm sure you've learned it's not much fun. 1 Quote Link to comment
Kdsd731 Posted February 1, 2019 Author Share Posted February 1, 2019 All the fish are looking great and thriving. No signs of ich in a week. Just the original outbreak that fell off after 3 days on the flame angel. I'm currently not dosing anything. Maybe I'm crazy but I'm just going to monitor them for the next several weeks and will medicate with copper power if I see any signs of ich returning. Quote Link to comment
GlassHouse Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Probably just the calm before the storm. Here’s the lifecycle of ich. You are probably in stage 4. https://blog.marinedepot.com/education-center/charts-diagrams/marine-ich-life-cycle-diagram-cryptocaryon-irritans-treatment 1 Quote Link to comment
Kdsd731 Posted February 2, 2019 Author Share Posted February 2, 2019 49 minutes ago, GlassHouse said: Probably just the calm before the storm. Here’s the lifecycle of ich. You are probably in stage 4. https://blog.marinedepot.com/education-center/charts-diagrams/marine-ich-life-cycle-diagram-cryptocaryon-irritans-treatment Hmmmm... maybe I am crazy then. I was thinking a week later maybe I lucked out since they weren't seeming stressed and no sign of it. I'm going to throw a crazy idea out there and I'm sure I'll get a lot of flak for it. Since I know some people don't medicate and just try and keep the fish eating and healthy and hope ich doesn't go rampant, is it possible that the fish remain healthy if they aren't stressed and they go back in the main tank? Or is it pretty much a 100% chance they'll get it again soon? I don't know if since I removed the fish the day I saw one with ich before the ich fell off and medicated them for a week in QT (while simultaneously I raised my main tank temp) that maybe it would be very low ich numbers in the main tank and they may be fine if happy, healthy and eating right now? Quote Link to comment
Tamberav Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Raising temp is for freshwater ich... I don't believe it has any effect here. They could have had ich in the gills dropping off before you ever saw it on the body. If they are already in QT...I would just keep them there and go fallow rather than risk catching the all over. 2 Quote Link to comment
mcarroll Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 On 2/1/2019 at 7:12 PM, Kdsd731 said: Hmmmm... maybe I am crazy then. I was thinking a week later maybe I lucked out since they weren't seeming stressed and no sign of it. I'm going to throw a crazy idea out there and I'm sure I'll get a lot of flak for it. Since I know some people don't medicate and just try and keep the fish eating and healthy and hope ich doesn't go rampant, is it possible that the fish remain healthy if they aren't stressed and they go back in the main tank? Or is it pretty much a 100% chance they'll get it again soon? I don't know if since I removed the fish the day I saw one with ich before the ich fell off and medicated them for a week in QT (while simultaneously I raised my main tank temp) that maybe it would be very low ich numbers in the main tank and they may be fine if happy, healthy and eating right now? You MAY be crazy, but healthy/recovering fish can kick a parasite. Fact, whether you're crazy or not. 😉 Ich's lifecycle is also a fact, however. So if you don't actually have the system's stress levels well in hand (double check with some more experienced folks if you're a newb) then you can pretty well be assured that one or another of your stressed fish will come down with ich sooner or later. For some examples: Adding new animals is stressful. Not controlling water chemistry can be stressful. Overstocking is stressful. Underfeeding is stressful. Treating with medications is stressful. Etc. (Also, check out Stress–It's Role In Fish Disease) Your fish is currently still in the main tank, correct? If he's acting normal, I wouldn't go wrecking the tank to get him out and treat him for a hypothetical ich infestation – that's a sure way to create one or more stressed-out fish whether they are already or not. Then you might have a real outbreak on your hands. I'd leave him in and just do your best to make a happy, stable reef and provide awesome foods for him. If you could easily get him out, or if he was accessible in a QT/observation tank, then I'd at most recommend taking him out for a closer inspection (mostly of the gills) with a magnifying glass/jewler's loupe or dissection microscope so you could be more-certain/confident of his current status. This would be more stressful than a simple catch-and-move, so you'd have to really want to know for sure. If disease does present again (indicating stress), you will probably have to consider one of the recommended treatments to get things on track....and perhaps consider making some bigger changes to reduce stress levels even more. 1 Quote Link to comment
Kdsd731 Posted February 8, 2019 Author Share Posted February 8, 2019 On 2/4/2019 at 6:39 PM, mcarroll said: You MAY be crazy, but healthy/recovering fish can kick a parasite. Fact, whether you're crazy or not. 😉 Ich's lifecycle is also a fact, however. So if you don't actually have the system's stress levels well in hand (double check with some more experienced folks if you're a newb) then you can pretty well be assured that one or another of your stressed fish will come down with ich sooner or later. For some examples: Adding new animals is stressful. Not controlling water chemistry can be stressful. Overstocking is stressful. Underfeeding is stressful. Treating with medications is stressful. Etc. (Also, check out Stress–It's Role In Fish Disease) Your fish is currently still in the main tank, correct? If he's acting normal, I wouldn't go wrecking the tank to get him out and treat him for a hypothetical ich infestation – that's a sure way to create one or more stressed-out fish whether they are already or not. Then you might have a real outbreak on your hands. I'd leave him in and just do your best to make a happy, stable reef and provide awesome foods for him. If you could easily get him out, or if he was accessible in a QT/observation tank, then I'd at most recommend taking him out for a closer inspection (mostly of the gills) with a magnifying glass/jewler's loupe or dissection microscope so you could be more-certain/confident of his current status. This would be more stressful than a simple catch-and-move, so you'd have to really want to know for sure. If disease does present again (indicating stress), you will probably have to consider one of the recommended treatments to get things on track....and perhaps consider making some bigger changes to reduce stress levels even more. They were removed the day I saw the ich. Treated for 1 week, then removed medication because the angel stopped eating. I ended up observing them for another 9 days and they looked and acted great. I put them back in the main tank and they seem great and healthy about a week later. I'm going to keep an eye on them and they will go in the qt again if it comes back. I left it up and running since it finished its cycle now and have different medication on hand if needed now too. Quote Link to comment
Humblefish Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 On 2/4/2019 at 8:39 PM, mcarroll said: You MAY be crazy, but healthy/recovering fish can kick a parasite. Fact, whether you're crazy or not. 😉 Not all parasites are created equally. While a fish's natural immune system is sometimes able to manage the presence of ich trophonts, more virulent parasites (e.g. velvet, brook) are more difficult to overcome. Water volume (dilution) also comes into play. As does species: A clownfish or wrasse (thick mucous coat) is more equipped to withstand parasites than, say, an Acanthurus Tang (thin slime coat). So I guess when it comes to managing parasites, one might say not all fish are created equally as well. 1 Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.