Fusion 20...March Update

[Tamberav]

On 4/4/2019 at 11:14 AM, TatorTaco said:

Small update:  just purchased the Innovative Marine Auqashield 9W UV Ultra Violet Light on Amazon.  A lot of freshwater reviews for something called the "green killing machine", but I thought a bit of brand loyalty might work in my favor from IM.  Fingers crossed it'll be here Saturday 4/6 and I'll have (good) news to report a few days later. 

Keep us updated on the UV, I am curious how well the IM 9W will work/if do anything. Seems like everyone has dino lately... seasonal? 🤔

[TatorTaco]

Just finished installing the sterilizer, so I’m gonna wait and see what happens for a few days to a week. 

 

Had an interesting convo with a fellow local hobbyists about my poor coral growth, whom suggested my tank may be “too clean” based on the following information:

5 nitrates

0 nitrites

0 ammonia

0 phosphate

0 TDS

no algae grows on the glass

My weekly water changes is usually closer to 40-60%. 

 

His assumption does sound credible, considering I have zero trouble with SPS growth, but my zoas, leathers, and shrooms simply do not grow. 

 

Current treatment plan is to reduce water changes to 10% total tank volume twice a month, and I’ll start that in a few weeks. With the UV sterilizer, I expect SOMETHING will have changed in regards to tank health - whether good or bad. I’ll reevaluate the situation in a month and then will likely resume water changes once a week, but stop changing so much water. 

[thecoralbeauty]

i LOVE the dimensions of this 20gal. I enjoy the space of my cube, but I love me a shallow tank. 🙂 

 

Read back a little and noticed that you added some macro algae.... I did as well and that seemed to trigger the dino's for me. When i took them out, everything I did to combat the dinos seemed to work a little better. My tank just doesn't seem to like macros.  Just food for thought. Hopefully the UV sterilizer works well for you- I fortunately didn't have to try that, so I'll be curious. 

[thecoralbeauty]

23 hours ago, TatorTaco said:

Just finished installing the sterilizer, so I’m gonna wait and see what happens for a few days to a week. 

 

Had an interesting convo with a fellow local hobbyists about my poor coral growth, whom suggested my tank may be “too clean” based on the following information:

5 nitrates

0 nitrites

0 ammonia

0 phosphate

0 TDS

no algae grows on the glass

My weekly water changes is usually closer to 40-60%. 

 

His assumption does sound credible, considering I have zero trouble with SPS growth, but my zoas, leathers, and shrooms simply do not grow. 

 

Current treatment plan is to reduce water changes to 10% total tank volume twice a month, and I’ll start that in a few weeks. With the UV sterilizer, I expect SOMETHING will have changed in regards to tank health - whether good or bad. I’ll reevaluate the situation in a month and then will likely resume water changes once a week, but stop changing so much water. 

Also, sorry for the double post- but this seemed to be the case with me. Adding macroalgaes seemed to make my water TOO clean, and let the dino's have the upper hand. I'm sure you'd rather have hair algae than dinos, so get it dirty!! 🙂 

[billygoat]

8 hours ago, mwhitelock said:

Also, sorry for the double post- but this seemed to be the case with me. Adding macroalgaes seemed to make my water TOO clean, and let the dino's have the upper hand. I'm sure you'd rather have hair algae than dinos, so get it dirty!! 🙂 

So I was reading Julian Sprung's "Algae: A Problem Solver Guide" (yes, an actual paper book; I'm one of those), published way back in 2002, and I noticed that the suggestions he offers for controlling dinoflagellates include:

 

1) Discontinue water changes for the duration of the outbreak

2) Boost Alk to raise pH

3) Use activated carbon to remove "humic substances" that promote dino growth

and most interestingly, 4) Employ an algal turf filter (the back-in-the-day equivalent of today's Chaetomorpha refugium) to limit growth via competition for nutrients

 

This last point in particular strikes me as rather strange, since multiple users here on N-R have beaten dinos by raising nutrient levels rather than lowering them - with @mwhitelock here being an excellent example! It's so interesting how the conventional wisdom seems to have changed over the years. Or maybe it just depends on the type of dinos you're dealing with? 🤔

[kimdawg]

I like the detailed journal, and the people that tell the good, bad, and show the ugly.  I learn more from reading the things that you like about your reef and the things that you had problems with.

[TatorTaco]

On 4/8/2019 at 3:11 AM, kimdawg said:

I like the detailed journal, and the people that tell the good, bad, and show the ugly.  I learn more from reading the things that you like about your reef and the things that you had problems with.

Thanks.  It's not nearly as exciting as other's post where they get to rave about all their new purchases.  I mean, nothing's wrong with that at all.  I just needed an avenue to journal my failures and help keep track of what works and what doesn't.  I thank you for checking it out though.  

On 4/7/2019 at 11:53 PM, billygoat said:

So I was reading Julian Sprung's "Algae: A Problem Solver Guide" (yes, an actual paper book; I'm one of those), published way back in 2002, and I noticed that the suggestions he offers for controlling dinoflagellates include:

 

1) Discontinue water changes for the duration of the outbreak

2) Boost Alk to raise pH

3) Use activated carbon to remove "humic substances" that promote dino growth

and most interestingly, 4) Employ an algal turf filter (the back-in-the-day equivalent of today's Chaetomorpha refugium) to limit growth via competition for nutrients

 

This last point in particular strikes me as rather strange, since multiple users here on N-R have beaten dinos by raising nutrient levels rather than lowering them - with @mwhitelock here being an excellent example! It's so interesting how the conventional wisdom seems to have changed over the years. Or maybe it just depends on the type of dinos you're dealing with? 🤔

Yeah, the information does seem to contradict itself ha ha - let's dirty it up and then clean it up at the same time. 

 

On 4/7/2019 at 3:25 PM, mwhitelock said:

i LOVE the dimensions of this 20gal. I enjoy the space of my cube, but I love me a shallow tank. 🙂 

 

Read back a little and noticed that you added some macro algae.... I did as well and that seemed to trigger the dino's for me. When i took them out, everything I did to combat the dinos seemed to work a little better. My tank just doesn't seem to like macros.  Just food for thought. Hopefully the UV sterilizer works well for you- I fortunately didn't have to try that, so I'll be curious. 

I'm super happy with the dimensions, but a part of me yearns for that 30L from IM.  I might have to try removing my dragon's breath.  It's growth has stalled anyway.  I'm a bit disappointed in my UV Sterilizer.  I kinda expected to see a rapid decline after 24 hours, and we're already on day 3 and I can't notice much of a difference.  I am wondering if it's going away because it seems as though my zoanthids are opening more, but maybe that's just wishful thinking.  

[thecoralbeauty]

4 hours ago, TatorTaco said:

Thanks.  It's not nearly as exciting as other's post where they get to rave about all their new purchases.  I mean, nothing's wrong with that at all.  I just needed an avenue to journal my failures and help keep track of what works and what doesn't.  I thank you for checking it out though.  

Yeah, the information does seem to contradict itself ha ha - let's dirty it up and then clean it up at the same time. 

 

I'm super happy with the dimensions, but a part of me yearns for that 30L from IM.  I might have to try removing my dragon's breath.  It's growth has stalled anyway.  I'm a bit disappointed in my UV Sterilizer.  I kinda expected to see a rapid decline after 24 hours, and we're already on day 3 and I can't notice much of a difference.  I am wondering if it's going away because it seems as though my zoanthids are opening more, but maybe that's just wishful thinking.  

I ran into the same contradictions when I did my research too. I say, try one approach, and if it doesn't, try the other. I kind of wonder if the strains of these things kind of cycle in and out of our hobby. 

 

Sorry to hear about the UV. Kinda makes me glad I didn't purchase one though, in hindsight. I was going to go that route if things didn't improve by raising nutrients. Maybe stick it out another few days and see? If it's not hurting anything, i don't think it would hurt, necessarily?

 

My corals are all very happy now that the dinos are gone- but my red ORA goni is still not quite fluffed up to her previous state. It was a month before she even got half-way inflated again after the dinos. So the fact that your zoos are looking happier already is promising!

[TatorTaco]

Yeah...I'm going to let it run for at least 7 days.  If this doesn't work, my next plan of action is to add pods and dose phtyo, but I think the UV Sterilizer will kill the phyto, so it'll go offline.  If that doesn't work, maybe I'll try a 3 day blackout?  I genuinely don't see how running the tank dark will kill such an algae with such a grip on my tank though.  

 

Now, if THAT doesn't work, I'm (obviously) just going to burn the tank down and bury it in the backyard.  Then, I'll copycat @billygoat with that saweet Carribean biotope. 

[thecoralbeauty]

10 minutes ago, TatorTaco said:

Yeah...I'm going to let it run for at least 7 days.  If this doesn't work, my next plan of action is to add pods and dose phtyo, but I think the UV Sterilizer will kill the phyto, so it'll go offline.  If that doesn't work, maybe I'll try a 3 day blackout?  I genuinely don't see how running the tank dark will kill such an algae with such a grip on my tank though.  

 

Now, if THAT doesn't work, I'm (obviously) just going to burn the tank down and bury it in the backyard.  Then, I'll copycat @billygoat with that saweet Carribean biotope. 

I did a blackout for 24 hours initially to help me get a leg up on it. Its not a good long-term provision by any means, but it does slow it down a bit and buy whatever course of treatment you're going after some time to get its foothold in there too. I think the common misconception is that it will fix everything- and no. a blackout definitely won't. but it might you some time. 🙂

 

pods and phytoplankton and diverse bacteria (new live sand, sand from other reefers tanks, different sources of bacteria can all potentially help)is an excellent next idea! There's really no downside to that approach, so even if it doesn't make a dent, it certainly won't hurt, like a lot of other treatments. 

 

and NO TANK BURNING! You will beat this! 

[billygoat]

1 hour ago, TatorTaco said:

Yeah...I'm going to let it run for at least 7 days.  If this doesn't work, my next plan of action is to add pods and dose phtyo, but I think the UV Sterilizer will kill the phyto, so it'll go offline.  If that doesn't work, maybe I'll try a 3 day blackout?  I genuinely don't see how running the tank dark will kill such an algae with such a grip on my tank though.  

 

Now, if THAT doesn't work, I'm (obviously) just going to burn the tank down and bury it in the backyard.  Then, I'll copycat @billygoat with that saweet Carribean biotope. 

I of course love biotope aquariums, but your tank is so pretty as it is! 😄 I don't think you should give up on it just yet. I think there may well be something to raising nutrient levels. Multiple people seem to have had success against dinos with this approach.

 

If I were you, what I would do moving forward is try one thing at a time, so you can make sure that you know which treatments seem to have an impact and which seem to do nothing. Run the UV sterilizer for awhile, and if that doesn't seem to do it, add some pods and see if that has an effect. No luck? Up your nutrients, and maybe that will be the thing that does the trick. None of these changes are likely to be bad for your tank on their own (hell, running a UV sterilizer is probably a good idea just in general, and every aquarist would love to have more pods!), so don't be afraid to experiment! Dinoflagellates are tenacious, but you will find a way through them. All it takes is time 😊

[TatorTaco]

I have a super happy update!

 

Ran UV Sterilizer for about 2 days before I started to think the sterilizer might be working - misc algae floating around the tank that looked bleached.  After about 4 days I was pretty sure I had fixed the problem, and then about 7 days after installing the IM Sterilizer I'm happy to report no visible traces of dinos.  I was a bit concerned the dragon's breath algae might tank a hit, but it came out just fine - although it was a detritus trap for decaying dinos once they died and got stuck in the fronds/leaves.  

 

The gorgonians are still trying to extend their polyps as well as my long tentacle plate coral still hasn't completely fluffed up, but I hope they turn around.  I've bumped my lights up 5% to see if I get better polyp extension from them - especially my corky sea finger.  I've noticed zoas reaching too.  I think this is a result of my cutting my light intensity so much when I added the 2nd Prime.  

 

 

 

I picked up a cabbage leather coral from a local with the intention of putting it in my 10 gallon tank but it won't fit so it's been moved to the Fusion 20.  I also picked up another zoa frag (nothing special) and they seem to be doing well too. I had to turn the white lights up which made picking up the orange in the middle of the zoas difficult.  

 

This now leads me to my duncan corals....the clowns are starting to host in them!  Duncans seem a bit irritated by this, but from my research I think they'll be fine in the long run.  They'll retract a bit and then the clowns wonder off for a bit and the duncans expand just a minute or two later.  I'm pretty happy with the pairing as opposed to them calling the wavemaker home.  

 

Anyway, that's all I've got to report for now.  Thanks for checking in!

 

[Tamberav]

Thanks for the update, that is great news! 

[billygoat]

Great update! I am very happy to hear that the sterilizer did the trick. An infestation of dinos is right up there with massive outbreaks of Aiptasia on the "scary" scale. Glad you could overcome them with relative ease. 💪

 

Nice pictures too. I always love seeing clownfish host in anything that isn't an anemone. Those poor Duncans have their work cut out for them 😄

[TatorTaco]

I'm still not seeing much/any growth in corals.   I've bumped my lights up another 5% to see if I get better polyp extension from them and help with coral growth.  All gorgonians have responded well.  I think I’m now maxing out around 70% intensity whereas BRS was suggesting on their AB+ Schedule around 115%.  I’ll just keep bumping it 5% every couple of weeks until….something good or bad happens?

 

I picked up a Scarlett Hermit since I only have 1 Blue Legged Hermit remaining.  I also picked up a Fighting Conch, but I’m planning to trade him very soon since my tank might be too small for it.  I’ve also noticed a surge in coralline algae, so that’s nice. 

 

Lately I’ve really wanted to move some corals around.  My gorgonian on the left is getting closer and closer to the front glass.  I wish I would’ve mounted it further in the back of the tank.  It’ll definitely shade whatever is under it though, so maybe I’ll just frag a few inches off the top and leave it shorter.

 

 

 

 

The top-down shot is probably the best place to ask this question:  do you see an area that I should consider adding another coral or two?  If so, what would you recommend?  I have that dark cave behind the long tentacle plate coral, but I’m not sure if anything would survive in there other than NPS like a sun coral (which would be a nice splash of color).

 

 

 

 

Below I circled an area in red that I’ve been thinking would look really nice with a rock flower anemone.  I keep seeing the zebra striped ones and I think that’d look pretty neat.

 

 

[lizzyann]

I loooove my sun corals, definitely recommend!

 

[kimdawg]

I think a RFA would look great in the circled area.  You could get a couple and you might get babies one day😁

[TatorTaco]

14 hours ago, lizzyann said:

I loooove my sun corals, definitely recommend!

 

Do you feed them daily? I’m trying to figure out the logistics of how to get food in the cave for them to eat. 

[TatorTaco]

8 hours ago, kimdawg said:

I think a RFA would look great in the circled area.  You could get a couple and you might get babies one day😁

I hope so. I’m aware of VIP Reef, so I’ll shop around for other vendors of RFAs online today. Let me know if you have a favorite. 

[lizzyann]

17 hours ago, TatorTaco said:

Do you feed them daily? I’m trying to figure out the logistics of how to get food in the cave for them to eat. 

I try to feed them every other day. Usually turn off pump and use a pipette to feed each polyp. It's a pain but I kinda love it!

[TatorTaco]

On 5/19/2019 at 12:45 AM, lizzyann said:

I try to feed them every other day. Usually turn off pump and use a pipette to feed each polyp. It's a pain but I kinda love it!

I might give it a shot.  I noticed many colonies on ebay, but my local guy has babies in their grow out tank that they'll be selling .  I'd prefer to tart with just a few polyps anyway so I'll just wait on them.  I offloaded a few misc corals to them and picked up some dry rock, xenia, and another frag of zoanthids.  I'll get around to pictures of them by the end of the week maybe. Planning to set up a third tank, but at my office for a xenia only tank.  Might create a new journal for that, but I reckon their won't be much to discuss with only one coral - and a pest coral at that. 

[TatorTaco]

Got a panicked phone call from the Mrs. that my tank was beeping really loud. Figured out it was my Inkbird temp controller fussing that the tank was too hot. 

 

Now, the lights on the tank are off.  It's not getting sunlight.  It's 70*F in the house.  Why is my tank at 83*F? I checked the thermometer and the little red light wasn't on.  Even then, the Inkbird should've turned it off.  Right? 

 

I borrowed a desk fan from work and went home to rig this monstrosity up:

 

 

 

Why yes, that is being held up by 2 yard sticks.  I tossed in an ice pack to the rear chamber to bring it down quickly.  Reviewed my Inkbird settings and I have the following going on.  Do these look correct to you? 

 

 

Temperature Set Value 79

Heating Differential Value  1

Cooling Differential Value  2

Alarm High Limit 84

Alarm Low Limit 76

 

 

Is there something else I should be reviewing to explain the high temperature of the tank?  It had a heater, a Jebao 0W-10, and a Sicce 1.5 running at the time.  Nothing else was on. 

 

Any insight would be appreciated. 

 

[Tamberav]

My tanks ran 85/86 in summer at my old apt without issue. Fast changes are not good though... but I doubt the ice pack did much anyways 😛  Let it drop slowly with evap and try and find the problem. 

 

Double check the temp with a regular thermometer, the ink bird could be the one malfunctioning. Otherwise maybe one of the pumps. 

[TatorTaco]

9 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

My tanks ran 85/86 in summer at my old apt without issue. Fast changes are not good though... but I doubt the ice pack did much anyways 😛  Let it drop slowly with evap and try and find the problem. 

 

Double check the temp with a regular thermometer, the ink bird could be the one malfunctioning. Otherwise maybe one of the pumps. 

I'll be sure to do that.  I'm still puzzled why the tank is 10+ degrees warmer the rest of the house with so little heating it. 

[TatorTaco]

Interesting development: I think my Inkbird needs to be recalibrated.

 

Everything looks fine in the tank. I’d verify my temperature is correct but I temporarily borrowed my extra thermometer for a pico pest tank that is being used in my office. I’d go pick up one from Walmart, but I’m tired from my 2nd job, it’s late, and it’s raining. 

 

I used a meat meat thermometer (ghetto, I know) and it says my tank temp is 70*. So...I pulled out an extra Cobalt Neotherm out of storage and it says the temp is 72*. That’s 2 sources against 1 so I’ve turned the fan off and unplugged the inkbird until Wednesday night when I can verify with a dedicated aquarium thermometer.

 

Until then, I’m trusting my tank to a Neotherm. I fear I won’t sleep well tonight until this is resolved.