LPS turning black

[KNelson]

Hi there, I have an alve that sustained duncan singing damage many months ago.  The polyps on that area eventually died but the others are (were) thriving.  I noticed today that some are turning necrotic.

 

 

The tips of some of the others are brownish. 

 

What's more, the neighboring goni which had been thriving is showing the same symptoms. 

 

 

Any ideas? 

[KNelson]

This is what I got after lights out. 

[SaltyBuddha]

My first impression is that your corals are bleached and the zooxanthellae leaving may be causing the browning.

 

How long have you had the corals?

Have they always been that color?

 

 

[KNelson]

40 minutes ago, SaltyBuddha said:

How long have you had the corals?

Alve - 1 yr, 1 mo

Goni - 3 mo

 

I did a tank transfer in December.  Was able to move the light higher so I upped the power a little.  

43 minutes ago, SaltyBuddha said:

Have they always been that color?

I think the pictures are deceiving although the centers may be less green than a year ago.  I don't run a ton of blues and the lights were ramping down.  For comparison...

 

Old tank July '18, not as good of a picture though:  

 

New tank 1 month ago: 

 

 

The "tentacles" that were blackish are now mostly retracted or gone.  

[KNelson]

2 hours ago, SaltyBuddha said:

My first impression is that your corals are bleached and the zooxanthellae leaving may be causing the browning.

I hope that is all, that's an easy fix. 

[mcarroll]

what are your dissolved nutrient tests like? (no3 and po4)  

 

how have recent tests compared with tests you did back on the old tank? 

 

what was your indication that the surviving polyps were thriving as you mentioned in the first post?  

 

for example, were you seeing new polyps and skeletal expansion?

 

also, use some kind of light meter to ser how much the tank os really getting.  

(free app lux meter, handheld lux meter, par meter)

 

measure at the old distance and with the old settings as well so we have a comparison.

[KNelson]

4 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

what are your dissolved nutrient tests like? (no3 and po4) 

Overall slightly lower.  Old no3 was 10-15 with weekly 20% wc, po4 was always in the 30s and spikey when I tried to lower it (additionally, alk was a hot mess and usually around 6-6.5).  New tank has ~5 no3 and a slow creep up to low 20s po4 (I haven't checked it since I refreshed my Rowaphos 2 weeks ago but I will tonight) with a much more stable alk at 7.4-7.8 tested at nearly the same time after my blues come on - I do a 25% wc every 2-3 weeks.  I do not run a reactor, but I did add a Tunze 9004 to the new tank that is off a lot more often than it's on (mainly because I forget to turn it on before I leave for work).  I dose 3ml Reef Code A+B nightly after feeding (20-21gal twv).  

 

38 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

how have recent tests compared with tests you did back on the old tank? 

Besides those mentioned above, pH was about the same (I can't remember the reading) and no ammonia or trites.  One of either Ca or Mg was a little lower - when I get home I'll check my notes, retest and report back).

 

48 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

what was your indication that the surviving polyps were thriving as you mentioned in the first post?

I haven't really noticed any skeletal expansion, but some new polyps (4 new on my goni that only had 4 to begin with).  Besides that, nearly everything in my tank has grown quite a bit in the 2 months in the new setup.  Mushrooms I've had for over a year finally started splitting and pooping out babies.  2 of my leathers have doubled in size while the other 2 have grown at least 25%.  There are at least 3 new heads on my small acan and my GSP that was looking really rough is now lush.  My stylo and duncan are the only 2 without great growth - stylo is still steady but I've had to move the duncan a couple of times because my tube nem won't make up his mind as to where he wants to settle.

 

1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

also, use some kind of light meter to ser how much the tank os really getting.  

(free app lux meter, handheld lux meter, par meter)

 

measure at the old distance and with the old settings as well so we have a comparison.

I'll get back to you on this, but I can't compare old as it was a Fluval Edge 12g and the light was in the hood and basically at water level.  Now it's attached to an arm.  I accounted for this and raised the lighting 5%.  Perhaps it wasn't enough?  I was worried about a large leather that is on a top rock...

[SaltyBuddha]

Yeah pictures can be deceiving for colors.

 

Leathers can take a lot of light when acclimated. 

LEDs lose PAR very quickly being moved up in height and 5% may not be enough to compensate. 

What light are you using?

 

Is your PO4 in the low 20 PPMs?

That is very very high. It should be under 0.2PPM. Most stride for under 0.1 PPM

 

Reducing PO4 too fast can cause big problems in coral and reduction should be done very slowly.

I would do this with controlled watechanges over time rather than Phosguard (or other PO4 exporters) that could remove the phosphate too quickly.

Once you get the PO4 under 1ppm, then you can add Phosguard to maintain lower levels without shocking the corals. 

 

Of course, this is assuming you mean PPM 

[KNelson]

16 minutes ago, SaltyBuddha said:

What light are you using?

AI Prime HD 

 

16 minutes ago, SaltyBuddha said:

Is your PO4 in the low 20 PPMs?

That is very very high. It should be under 0.2PPM. Most stride for under 0.1 PPM

 

Reducing PO4 too fast can cause big problems in coral and reduction should be done very slowly.

I would do this with controlled watechanges over time rather than Phosguard (or other PO4 exporters) that could remove the phosphate too quickly.

Once you get the PO4 under 1ppm, then you can add Phosguard to maintain lower levels without shocking the corals. 

 

Of course, this is assuming you mean PPM 

No no!  That's the Hanna Checker ULR reading.  That converts to ~ 0.06 ppm.

 

I have been using the Rowaphos for a year.   I try to maintain by adding a tablespoon to a bag when I see the phosphates start to climb, but every one in a while I have to start totally fresh. 

[SaltyBuddha]

Just now, KNelson said:

AI Prime HD 

 

No no!  That's the Hanna Checker ULR reading.  That converts to ~ 0.06 ppm.

 

I have been using the Rowaphos for a year.   I try to maintain by adding a tablespoon to a bag when I see the phosphates start to climb, but every one in a while I have to start totally fresh. 

LOL that makes a big difference.

 

I would guess it is the light then. From the pictures, it looks like the polyps on the bottom (shaded) are browning more so than the top. Points to not enough light. I would increase the % or drop it down lower and adjust from there (while watching closely for bleaching)

[KNelson]

7 hours ago, SaltyBuddha said:

LOL that makes a big difference.

 

I would guess it is the light then. From the pictures, it looks like the polyps on the bottom (shaded) are browning more so than the top. Points to not enough light. I would increase the % or drop it down lower and adjust from there (while watching closely for bleaching)

I will play with some locations tomorrow, I don't want to raise the lights too much as I have some shrooms attached to the main rock right up top.  I like my shrooms. 

 

I tested all I could again tonight and I was misremembering.  The Ca was higher than in the old tank.  The 12/22 test was the first full test after getting everything settled in the new tank.  I probably should not have run the skimmer all day.  Also, I got some more snails last week. 

 

              1/23        12/22

pH           8.2           7.9

NH3         0               0

NO2         0               0

NO3        0-5            0       

PO4        0.06         0.03

Ca           450           440

Mg         1395        1350

dKh         7.2            6.8

[mcarroll]

Consider 0.03 ppm phosphate (PO4) to be your absolute minimum and 0.10 ppm to be your comfort zone....don't start managing phosphates until they get >0.10 ppm.

 

Consider 5 ppm nitrate (NO3) to be your minimum and 10 ppm to be your comfort zone....don't start managing nitrates until they get >10 ppm.

 

As long as NO3 and PO4 are both available (as in your test on 1/23) then you shouldn't have a worry, even if they get over the comfort zone numbers.

 

As long as your current NO3 reading is a lot closer to 5 ppm than zero, then everything looks pretty good to me on your current tests.  (A zero there is a problem worth addressing.)

 

Why don't you leave the skimmer running all the time?   From the skimmer's point of view that would be ideal.  :)

 

Do you still have the old lights or are they not in your possession anymore?  If possible get some readings from it in air to compare with your current lighting.

 

And let us know when you have some lux numbers from the current light!  :-)   (galactica luxmeter is a decent one on IOS.....but order a $10-15 meter to have later)

[KNelson]

59 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Consider 0.03 ppm phosphate (PO4) to be your absolute minimum and 0.10 ppm to be your comfort zone....don't start managing phosphates until they get >0.10 ppm.

I had some hair algae in my old tank and some xfered to new - trying to finish that off since my turbo won't.  It's almost gone and I am not planning on adding any Rowaphos till phos is back up. 

 

59 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Consider 5 ppm nitrate (NO3) to be your minimum and 10 ppm to be your comfort zone....don't start managing nitrates until they get >10 ppm.

Until yesterday, I have not had my skimmer on in over a week and I overfeed.

 

59 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Why don't you leave the skimmer running all the time?   From the skimmer's point of view that would be ideal.  🙂

My house is small and is very quiet and my husband likes it that way.  My 'trates are already low. 

 

59 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Do you still have the old lights or are they not in your possession anymore?  If possible get some readings from it in air to compare with your current lighting.

 

And let us know when you have some lux numbers from the current light!  🙂  (galactica luxmeter is a decent one on IOS.....but order a $10-15 meter to have later)

I am using the light.  I have the wires all organized and zip tied and in not going to undo that. I'll look into a physical meter for delivery this weekend. 

[mcarroll]

1 hour ago, KNelson said:

My house is small and is very quiet and my husband likes it that way.  My 'trates are already low.

Ah, gotcha.  Just needs an appliance timer then.

 

1 hour ago, KNelson said:

I am using the light. 

For your old light, you can put your phone in a ziplock baggie to take app readings at the waterline without risk to your phone.  Same trick goes for the handheld meter if you want to use it below the water line when you get it.

[KNelson]

6 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Ah, gotcha.  Just needs an appliance timer then.

Duh.  We use them on so many other thing around the house I should have thought of that.  Thanks!