Almost embarrassed to ask this

[JurisReefer]

Basically, I might have some diatoms. The tank is fully cycled (0,0, .5-.10 ppm). I managed to avoid any bad diatoms during the cycle, but maybe 2 weeks later I can't seem to shake these brown, "stringy" diatoms on the sandbed and rock work. I'm starting to think they might not be diatoms because all of my corals seem to be closed up, and even with water changes and siphoning the sand, they come back.

 

I've started using Polyplab's One, and since then all of my corals have been closed up, so it could also be that. Does anyone have any thoughts to share on this?

 

Sorry for the blue in the pictures, but you can best tell in the one of the rock, and I just ripped some of it off this morning, but you can see it from the acan in the bottom right corner of the second picture

.

 

[ReefGoat]

Not sure about the nuisance algae ID. Try to use a more white light setting for better visual. But I do have a question. Why are you dosing that stuff? That's a kh, mag and calcium mixture. In such a new tank there's no way its consuming more than what your weekly water changes should be replenishing. 

[specore]

5 minutes ago, ReefGoat said:

Not sure about the nuisance algae ID. Try to use a more white light setting for better visual. But I do have a question. Why are you dosing that stuff? That's a kh, mag and calcium mixture. In such a new tank there's no way its consuming more than what your weekly water changes should be replenishing. 

Yep.  K.I.S.S, no need to dose at this point.  Don't add anymore livestock at the moment, feed very conservatively if you already have fish, and do regular water changes until you have ridden this out.  

[Oldsalt01]

Looks more like cyano to me, but again, without a closer whiter pic it’s hard to tell.

[JurisReefer]

Here are some shots with the blue light off 

[ReefGoat]

 (0,0, .5-.10 ppm) -----------Those levels you posted. Is that standing for 0 ammonia, 0 nitrate, .5 phosphate and .10 nitrate? Or .5 nitrate and .10 phosphate? 

[JurisReefer]

Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Those were the things I was testing for during the cycle. Phosphates were .50ppm last I checked two days ago

[ReefGoat]

.50 is pretty high for phosphates and you have hardly any nitrates. Those two being so out of balance could be causing this. 

 

 

 

Additionally-----I've only dealt with diatoms slightly in my other tank. But at no point did they string upwards like that. Nor were they slimy and algae like. They were more of a rusty colored dusting. Also, I didn't see your test results for ALK, CALCIUM AND MAGNESIUM. You've said you been dosing that supplement. Test those levels and make sure you aren't overdoing it causing your corals to react in a negative manner. 

[Oldsalt01]

I had similar nasties in low flow areas of my tank and my LFS, who has 20+ years in the business said they think it’s a form of cyano, which i agree with. I had to empty my tank to move it and while it was empty i did some serious rock cleaning and a thorough cleaning of the sand. That seemed to help a lot. Do you vacuum your sand during water changes?

[Donnan]

I had cyano like that in my tank and the only thing that got rid of it for good was when I stopped adding food to the tank. I'm not sure if you have any fish or not but that's what did it for me. A 3 day blackout worked but it was only temporary as the cyano came back soon after. I now only feed my fish one pellet at a time in which they eat before it hits the sand.

[JurisReefer]

Thanks for all of your responses. Bummed its cyano, but at least now I can figure out what to do.

[FISHnChix]

5 minutes ago, LegalReef said:

Thanks for all of your responses. Bummed its cyano, but at least now I can figure out what to do.

Bummed its cyano?. Shoot that's the easiest to get rid of. Don't worry keep doing weekly water changes and dont over feed and you will be fine! What's your flow look like? take fts so we can see your scape and power head placement.  My bet is you probably need more flow as well. Does it seem to be forming in the "dead spots "

[Lula_Mae]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it actually looks a lot like dinos to me.  Where the strings go upward, do you ever see air bubbles forming on the strings?  It certainly could be a cyano but it looks a lot like dinos to me.

[RayWhisperer]

13 minutes ago, Lula_Mae said:

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it actually looks a lot like dinos to me.  Where the strings go upward, do you ever see air bubbles forming on the strings?  It certainly could be a cyano but it looks a lot like dinos to me.

I came here to say this.

[JurisReefer]

Definitely dinos. Thanks everyone for the responses. I've been away for a couple of days and they're still going strong. Going to get my fuge running again, introduce some pods, and decrease my photoperiod and feeding.

[Reefkid88]

Black out the tank,empty the water replace it with C16 and light it. Sit back and enjoy lol. 

 

 But no really,try a black out period. JediBen can help with dinos he has had it a million times. 

[JurisReefer]

On 12/22/2018 at 12:39 PM, Reefkid88 said:

Black out the tank,empty the water replace it with C16 and light it. Sit back and enjoy lol. 

 

 But no really,try a black out period. JediBen can help with dinos he has had it a million times. 

We share the same of humor. I've joked too many times about just filling the thing with gasoline, putting in some NoPox, and lighting a match. Somehow people still miss the joke. They probably don't know how much money I have sunk into this glass box 

[mcarroll]

On 12/13/2018 at 12:59 PM, LegalReef said:

Basically, I might have some diatoms. The tank is fully cycled (0,0, .5-.10 ppm).

Those are dino's.   Can you clarify what those numbers are for?

 

Do you have a microscope available?  Even a $10-20 toy scope will work, it doesn't take anything fancy.  Post pics for confirmation, or google for example dinoflagellate micro-photos.

 

If not (get one! :)), take a sample of the algae with some tank water and shake it up to break it up really good and homogenize it.  

Then let it sit for a while under lights and see if it reconstitutes into globs or strands again.  

If it does:  dino's.  

If not, maybe diatons or maybe cyano.  

Run another test but instead of shaking it up, just add a bunch of peroxide.  

If it bubbles O2, then cyano.  

If not, diatoms.

[Andreww]

Dinoflagellates will show their ugly head in a Nitrate limited environment.

3 day blackout did it for me but you need to fix the PO4/NO3 ratio.

If your Nitrates are 0 and Phosphates that high, you can’t rely on food to bring up Nitrates. Don’t wanna suggest dosing Nitrates but it’s something you might wanna consider if NO3 is really depleted in your system.

[mcarroll]

Dino's clumping behavior is (among other things) protection from light, so they only do it during the day.  (Forgot that one...if the bloom doesn't change during lights-out, then it's not dino's.)

 

Their blooming behavior seems to be triggered by starvation though...and notably, they are terrible at nutrient uptake, so they have a tendency toward starvation.   That tendency probably explains their adaptation to switch from autotrophy (using sun+dissolved nutrients) to phagotrophy (eating stuff like bacteria) when they starve.  Bacteria is an almost limitless food supply, even in a tank, so the dino's bloom in numbers to the point that you can visibly see their daytime colonies.  (Where normally they are an invisible tank resident that lives epiphytically among your green algae....they seem to especially like chaeto.)

 

Maybe surprisingly, dino's actually don't seem very affected by blackouts.  They really seem to require low-light environments.

 

During the dark, they seem to simply disperse into the tank and substrate until the lights come back on.  Then photosynthesis starts working again, causing them to gather and mucus up for protection again, becoming visible to the naked eye again as strands or mats.

 

This is why fixing the nutrient levels is so important....without that, the tank remains dysfunctional and the dino's will ultimately return to bloom.

 

Healthy green algae, coraline algae, corals and their microbial cohorts (or even diatoms or cyano, at first) are what you need to replace the dino blooms....and they all need a stable supply of dissolved macro and micro-nutrients in order to do it successfully.

 

If you confirm that it really is dino's that are blooming, I recommend using Seachem Floursih Phosphorous or any similar product that comes with dosing instructions and concentration levels on the label, and I recommend testing and dosing as often as necessary to maintain a phosphate level of 0.10 ppm until there are signs of healthy growth (as noted above).  Once something healthy is growing, you might be able to stop or reduce dosing....still make sure that phosphate levels do not drop below 0.03 ppm until the tank has matured.   Mature tanks recycle nutrients, including nitrogen and phosphorus, much more efficiently than a new tank, which has almost no capacity for recycling....so dissolved levels of NO3 or PO4 approaching zero are much less critical.  Most folks still find that corals grow best and look best with a steady supply, not zero.

[Andreww]

41 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Dino's clumping behavior is (among other things) protection from light, so they only do it during the day.  (Forgot that one...if the bloom doesn't change during lights-out, then it's not dino's.)

 

Their blooming behavior seems to be triggered by starvation though...and notably, they are terrible at nutrient uptake, so they have a tendency toward starvation.   That tendency probably explains their adaptation to switch from autotrophy (using sun+dissolved nutrients) to phagotrophy (eating stuff like bacteria) when they starve.  Bacteria is an almost limitless food supply, even in a tank, so the dino's bloom in numbers to the point that you can visibly see their daytime colonies.  (Where normally they are an invisible tank resident that lives epiphytically among your green algae....they seem to especially like chaeto.)

 

Maybe surprisingly, dino's actually don't seem very affected by blackouts.  They really seem to require low-light environments.

 

During the dark, they seem to simply disperse into the tank and substrate until the lights come back on.  Then photosynthesis starts working again, causing them to gather and mucus up for protection again, becoming visible to the naked eye again as strands or mats.

 

This is why fixing the nutrient levels is so important....without that, the tank remains dysfunctional and the dino's will ultimately return to bloom.

 

Healthy green algae, coraline algae, corals and their microbial cohorts (or even diatoms or cyano, at first) are what you need to replace the dino blooms....and they all need a stable supply of dissolved macro and micro-nutrients in order to do it successfully.

 

If you confirm that it really is dino's that are blooming, I recommend using Seachem Floursih Phosphorous or any similar product that comes with dosing instructions and concentration levels on the label, and I recommend testing and dosing as often as necessary to maintain a phosphate level of 0.10 ppm until there are signs of healthy growth (as noted above).  Once something healthy is growing, you might be able to stop or reduce dosing....still make sure that phosphate levels do not drop below 0.03 ppm until the tank has matured.   Mature tanks recycle nutrients, including nitrogen and phosphorus, much more efficiently than a new tank, which has almost no capacity for recycling....so dissolved levels of NO3 or PO4 approaching zero are much less critical.  Most folks still find that corals grow best and look best with a steady supply, not zero.

I assume you meant Seachem flourish Nitrogen? 

Because dosing phosphates in a system where those are already high with zero nitrates will keep giving you the same issues.

OP needs to balance these 2.

 

 

 

[mcarroll]

Can't tell what he meant by the numbers posted, as I mentioned earlier....just talking about the possibilities.

[ReefGoat]

1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

Can't tell what he meant by the numbers posted, as I mentioned earlier....just talking about the possibilities.

On December 13th in this thread his phosphates were .50 and his nitrates were basically undetectable. He mentioned that those numbers he posted were represented in this order. Ammonia, nitrite and then nitrate and then phosphate at .50

[mcarroll]

19 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Do you have a microscope available?  Even a $10-20 toy scope will work, it doesn't take anything fancy.  Post pics for confirmation, or google for example dinoflagellate micro-photos.

 

If not (get one! :)), take a sample of the algae with some tank water and shake it up to break it up really good and homogenize it.  

Then let it sit for a while under lights and see if it reconstitutes into globs or strands again.  

If it does:  dino's.  

If not, maybe diatons or maybe cyano.  

Run another test but instead of shaking it up, just add a bunch of peroxide.  

If it bubbles O2, then cyano.  

If not, diatoms.

Still need to know about this part before doing anything significant.

 

If PO4 is really in the 0.05-0.10 ppm range, I'm almost wondering if that's cyano coating some old hair algae.   Seems too wispy in the photo tho...appears more like dino's....but then that's why there are tests and microscopes to help figure it out.  :)

On 12/13/2018 at 12:59 PM, LegalReef said:

 

[ReefGoat]

1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

Still need to know about this part before doing anything significant.

 

If PO4 is really in the 0.05-0.10 ppm range, I'm almost wondering if that's cyano coating some old hair algae.   Seems too wispy in the photo tho...appears more like dino's....but then that's why there are tests and microscopes to help figure it out.  🙂

 

It's not .05-.10 phosphate. It's actually .50 according to him. I'm almost wondering if he didn't misread it.