Low Maintenance First Tank - Questions

[fulltang]

2 hours ago, Clown79 said:

You can save on lights too. There are many budget lights that are good lights.

 

Abi tuna blue par38

Hipargero

Aquamaxx nemolight

Micmol

 

Softies don't require high light.

 

 

 

 

I'll research those, thank you!

 

I'm heavily researching my rock options at the moment. While I really want TBS live rock, I don't think I can justify the cost with my experience level, seems too risky. I noticed that use you the Caribsea rock, which seems like a good alternative, considering I'm not a fan of the white rock look. After researching the Caribsea rock, I can't really find a clear answer, should I treat it like a normal dry rock in regards to cycling?

[Clown79]

4 minutes ago, fulltang said:

I'll research those, thank you!

 

I'm heavily researching my rock options at the moment. While I really want TBS live rock, I don't think I can justify the cost with my experience level, seems too risky. I noticed that use you the Caribsea rock, which seems like a good alternative, considering I'm not a fan of the white rock look. After researching the Caribsea rock, I can't really find a clear answer, should I treat it like a normal dry rock in regards to cycling?

I often use liverock mysrlf but have used caribsea liferock in my upgrade and adding it to an existing tank as it doesn't cause spikes.

 

Its injected with bacteria but an ammonia source would need to be added to start a cycle. 

 

[fulltang]

15 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

I often use liverock mysrlf but have used caribsea liferock in my upgrade and adding it to an existing tank as it doesn't cause spikes.

 

Its injected with bacteria but an ammonia source would need to be added to start a cycle. 

 

I see! I can't find any tutorials for cycling Liferock from tank startup, but I'll keep looking. I think that's what I'm gonna pick up.

 

In other news, I ordered the Fluval Evo.. this is happening! I'm also ordering this steel stand, and I'll be making some custom magnetic bamboo plywood panels for it

[Clown79]

Liferock is just dry Rock.

 

It will not cause a cycle. There is nothing to die off on it as it is a man made rock.

 

 

[fulltang]

Just now, Clown79 said:

Liferock is just dry Rock.

 

It will not cause a cycle. There is nothing to die off on it as it is a man made rock.

 

 

 

Oh sorry I misunderstood, the injected bacteria just replaces the need for the bottled stuff?

[Clown79]

7 minutes ago, fulltang said:

 

Oh sorry I misunderstood, the injected bacteria just replaces the need for the bottled stuff?

The injected bacteria will help a bit but without an ammonia source, the tank will not go through a cycle. 

 

I wouldn't rely on the injected bacteria to be able to handle a bioload right away. 

[Firefish15]

11 hours ago, Clown79 said:

Hipargero

+1. Euphyllinme has it on one of his tanks too. He's growing softies and LPS.

[Jesterrace]

On 12/11/2018 at 1:14 PM, Clown79 said:

You can save on lights too. There are many budget lights that are good lights.

 

Abi tuna blue par38

Hipargero

Aquamaxx nemolight

Micmol

 

Softies don't require high light.

 

 

 

 

Yes and No.  I had a soft leather mushroom that didn't make it under cheap lighting and several other supposedly easy to grow corals as well.  I would go with a black box on that tank personally.  The more basic models will set you back $100 and they will grow a wide range of corals, whereas the cheaper lights can be really hit and miss:  

 

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_8?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=165+watt+led+for+reef+tank&sprefix=165+watt%2Caps%2C187&crid=JAXMO0O9YRS1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3A165+watt+led+for+reef+tank

 

 

[mcarroll]

On 12/10/2018 at 11:27 PM, fulltang said:

Here are the parts I'm considering at the moment:

 

IM14 - $180

Jebao DCS-1200 DC return pump - $60 (I heard the stock pump is loud, and from what I've read this one is quiet. Do you think this is enough of a flow upgrade to eliminate the for a power head in the tank?)

Finnex 100w heater - $45

inTank basket - $50

AI Prime - $200

Smart ATO - $134

Refractometer - $35

15lbs reef cleaner's rock - $40

Flipper nano - $30

Chemipure blue nano - $12

Purigen - $10

Filter Floss - $13

Gravel pump - $7

If you're considering a square tank, then depending on your aesthetic preferences a single spotlight can be a great option.

 

If you're considering a rectangular tank, then a single light is a lot less great of an option.

 

Consider these images:

Spotlight on a square tank.  Not too bad - good overall fit.

 

Spotlight on a rectangular tank - no coverage on the ends!

 

Spotlight on a rectangular tank - tons of wasted light!

 

Instead, I'd suggest considering a strip LED that would better fit the length of a rectangular tank.   They're simpler to use as well since there's no mounting required...in most cases they lay right on the tank rim.  CurrentUSA's Orbit #4100 or Orbit IC #4104 would work well.  (Stick with the IC if you think high-light coral or clams will be your thing.  The plain Orbit should be great for "ordinary" corals.)

 

On 12/11/2018 at 12:04 PM, fulltang said:

And yeah, as much as I love the look of LPS, I need to start simple and get a feel for the level of commitment and reward I derive from this hobby first and go from there.

I'm pretty opposed to "beginner corals".  Best case scenario is that you get good at keeping coral you don't want or don't like...and that coral fills up your tank while you're figuring out what you really like.

 

That seems like a dubious use of resources considering that keeping any coral you're likely to find for sale isn't so hard in 2018.

 

So IMO, start the tank, save on gear where you can, but buy that expensive live rock you were looking at, and take your time/refine your process on that. 

 

Grow it out as well as you can learn to and then start adding corals from there.  Corals that you'll have PLENTY of time to research.  You'll probably have some corals on that live rock, which will be enough to deal with.  :)

 

BTW, starting with dead rock is the equivalent of leaving the tires off a race care.  Yeah, it'll still "go" but you're not really in the race.

 

Stay tuned in to n-r.com but also get some books while you're in learning mode.   Look for any of the authors Tullock, Riddle or Fenner just to get you started.  (Don't forget used books!)

 

Last, if you think stony corals will be on your "preferred list", then I'd suggest that you also start googling all the articles that have been written on alkalinity (and calcium) maintenance.  Look for articles by Bingman, Holmes-Farley or others.

 

 

[fulltang]

1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

If you're considering a square tank, then depending on your aesthetic preferences a single spotlight can be a great option.

 

If you're considering a rectangular tank, then a single light is a lot less great of an option.

 

Consider these images:

Spotlight on a square tank.  Not too bad - good overall fit.

 

Spotlight on a rectangular tank - no coverage on the ends!

 

Spotlight on a rectangular tank - tons of wasted light!

 

Instead, I'd suggest considering a strip LED that would better fit the length of a rectangular tank.   They're simpler to use as well since there's no mounting required...in most cases they lay right on the tank rim.  CurrentUSA's Orbit #4100 or Orbit IC #4104 would work well.  (Stick with the IC if you think high-light coral or clams will be your thing.  The plain Orbit should be great for "ordinary" corals.)

 

I'm pretty opposed to "beginner corals".  Best case scenario is that you get good at keeping coral you don't want or don't like...and that coral fills up your tank while you're figuring out what you really like.

 

That seems like a dubious use of resources considering that keeping any coral you're likely to find for sale isn't so hard in 2018.

 

So IMO, start the tank, save on gear where you can, but buy that expensive live rock you were looking at, and take your time/refine your process on that. 

 

Grow it out as well as you can learn to and then start adding corals from there.  Corals that you'll have PLENTY of time to research.  You'll probably have some corals on that live rock, which will be enough to deal with.  🙂

 

BTW, starting with dead rock is the equivalent of leaving the tires off a race care.  Yeah, it'll still "go" but you're not really in the race.

 

Stay tuned in to n-r.com but also get some books while you're in learning mode.   Look for any of the authors Tullock, Riddle or Fenner just to get you started.  (Don't forget used books!)

 

Last, if you think stony corals will be on your "preferred list", then I'd suggest that you also start googling all the articles that have been written on alkalinity (and calcium) maintenance.  Look for articles by Bingman, Holmes-Farley or others.

 

 

 

I decided on the Fluval Evo 13.5, which is rectangular. Great points about the spotlight coverage, they're so popular with this tank I didn't think coverage would be a huge issue. What you say makes total sense though, so if those CurrentUSA lights are somewhat comparable, I'll give them a serious look. I definitely want my tank to pop reasonably well, as photography is a passion of mine. 

 

I'm committed to using the TBS rock and I had the same thought, it comes with so much life that if I'm successful in keeping it alive, I'll have my hands full without actually buying any other lifestock. This is extremely daunting, because I'm essentially going 0-100 as a complete noob. I feel like I need to do some water changes with nothing in the tank just to get a few "dry" runs to practice my maintenance routine.

 

A new concern that I have is that my local water is treated with Chloramines. I had decided on a budget RODI system, but from my research even the expensive ones aren't guaranteed to trap Chloramines. So now I'm back to considering using distilled water, which shouldn't be that big of an issue once I get past the initial fill up and 50%+ water changes that using this live rock requires. One thing I did stumble across is people using Seachem Prime to eliminate Chloramines, would combing Prime with the budget BRS RODI unit actually be the better option? Longer term I'm planning on buying Autoaqua's AWC system, which requires pre-mixed saltwater in a reservoir, can I treat this premixed saltwater with Prime as well? I figured I can, but I just want to check before I commit to anything.

 

Random noob question, is it safe to use tap water to do a leaktest on my new tank, or should I play it safe and only ever let distilled touch the inside?

 

Thanks for the advice on Coral by the way!

[lkoechle]

my 100 days of nano tank has the current on it.  IMO, I don't like it for making coral pretty.  I would look for a used nanobox tide duo or something similar.  I like the current though for a very natural look and that tank is macro dominated so it looks really nice.  but it washes out coral and finding a balance of blues and whites on it is difficult.  or it was for me, someone else might like it better but not my cup of tea for anything you're wanting to glow.  

[specore]

I personally think the AI Prime would be fine over the Fluval.  Sure you'll have a little light spillage, but shouldn't be too bad and it is a better quality light that offers superior control to the Current. 

 

Keeping an eye out for a deal on a used Nanobox Duo would be another option if you are worried about the singular light point on the rectangular tank. 

[fulltang]

Thank you both, I'll keep my eye out in the used section.

 

In other news I contacted my local water district regarding the use of chloramines and this was their response:

 

"Thank you for your question regarding water treatment chemicals.

Soquel Creek Water District does NOT use chloramine for disinfection.  We use sodium hypochlorite, which is basically the chemical name for chlorine bleach.  It is stronger than household chlorine bleach however, and is highly purified so that it meets NSF 60 standards for chemicals used in drinking water treatment. http://www.nsf.org/services/by-industry/water-wastewater/water-treatment-chemicals/nsf-ansi-standard-60

Please let me know if you have any other questions,"

 

Given that information, do you think it's likely that I can safely use a budget brs rodi unit? @Clown79 I noticed that you've done research on chloramines, curious about your take on the situation.
 

[Tamberav]

My water has chloramines, I don't use any special chloramine filter for it (they do make them though), I use Marine Depot carbon block + prefilter and Spectrapures membrane + silica/DI stage. 

 

A cheap chlorine test kit can test for chloramines. Mine shows 0 after the RODI.

 

I change my sediment/carbon filters every 6 months regardless if the pressure/tds shows we need to. We use it for drinking too and marine depots pre-filters are not expensive. 

 

I basically go by what Randy-Holmes-Farley says and so far my tank hasn't exploded 😄

 

http://www.reefkeeping.com/authors/rhf.php

 

 

 

11 hours ago, fulltang said:

 

I decided on the Fluval Evo 13.5, which is rectangular. Great points about the spotlight coverage, they're so popular with this tank I didn't think coverage would be a huge issue. What you say makes total sense though, so if those CurrentUSA lights are somewhat comparable, I'll give them a serious look. I definitely want my tank to pop reasonably well, as photography is a passion of mine. 

 

I'm committed to using the TBS rock and I had the same thought, it comes with so much life that if I'm successful in keeping it alive, I'll have my hands full without actually buying any other lifestock. This is extremely daunting, because I'm essentially going 0-100 as a complete noob. I feel like I need to do some water changes with nothing in the tank just to get a few "dry" runs to practice my maintenance routine.

 

A new concern that I have is that my local water is treated with Chloramines. I had decided on a budget RODI system, but from my research even the expensive ones aren't guaranteed to trap Chloramines. So now I'm back to considering using distilled water, which shouldn't be that big of an issue once I get past the initial fill up and 50%+ water changes that using this live rock requires. One thing I did stumble across is people using Seachem Prime to eliminate Chloramines, would combing Prime with the budget BRS RODI unit actually be the better option? Longer term I'm planning on buying Autoaqua's AWC system, which requires pre-mixed saltwater in a reservoir, can I treat this premixed saltwater with Prime as well? I figured I can, but I just want to check before I commit to anything.

 

Random noob question, is it safe to use tap water to do a leaktest on my new tank, or should I play it safe and only ever let distilled touch the inside?

 

Thanks for the advice on Coral by the way!

 

 

 

 

[Clown79]

Chloramines are the hardest to remove, they can't really be fully removed from the research I did.

 

Proper Rodi set up when water is treated with chloramines is a 5 stage or 6 stage.

Sediment, carbon, chloramine carbon, membrane, di. 

 

BRS has a video on YouTube on the subject of chloramines and spectrapure has info regarding proper removal.

 

Distilled over time does get costly, rodi is a large one time cost but in the long run getting an rodi saves money and gives you more ease. 

 

Spectrapure often sell refurbished units for great prices. 

[Tamberav]

Found the article...

 

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-11/rhf/feature/index.htm

 

It is an interesting read. Was good enough assurance for me anyways. 

[fulltang]

2 hours ago, Tamberav said:

Found the article...

 

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-11/rhf/feature/index.htm

 

It is an interesting read. Was good enough assurance for me anyways. 

 

Fantastic article, thank you.

 

2 hours ago, Clown79 said:

Chloramines are the hardest to remove, they can't really be fully removed from the research I did.

 

Proper Rodi set up when water is treated with chloramines is a 5 stage or 6 stage.

Sediment, carbon, chloramine carbon, membrane, di. 

 

BRS has a video on YouTube on the subject of chloramines and spectrapure has info regarding proper removal.

 

Distilled over time does get costly, rodi is a large one time cost but in the long run getting an rodi saves money and gives you more ease. 

 

Spectrapure often sell refurbished units for great prices. 

 

I just ordered a free chlorine test kit, I'll cross reference my findings with what the water district said, although I do trust their word. I may just opt for the 5 stage Spectrapure chloramine kit anyway.

[specore]

16 hours ago, Tamberav said:

My water has chloramines, I don't use any special chloramine filter for it (they do make them though), I use Marine Depot carbon block + prefilter and Spectrapures membrane + silica/DI stage. 

 

A cheap chlorine test kit can test for chloramines. Mine shows 0 after the RODI.

 

I change my sediment/carbon filters every 6 months regardless if the pressure/tds shows we need to. We use it for drinking too and marine depots pre-filters are not expensive. 

 

I basically go by what Randy-Holmes-Farley says and so far my tank hasn't exploded 😄

 

http://www.reefkeeping.com/authors/rhf.php

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is there a chlorine test you recommend?

 

I have the test strips from BRS and frankly don't think they tell me a damn thing.  Pretty much looks looks like zero whether I test my tap (which I know has chloramines) or the RO/DI from my six stage unit.  I just make sure I change the carbon blocks every few months and figure if I keep up with my weekly water changes everything should be fine.  

[Clown79]

1 hour ago, specore said:

Is there a chlorine test you recommend?

 

I have the test strips from BRS and frankly don't think they tell me a damn thing.  Pretty much looks looks like zero whether I test my tap (which I know has chloramines) or the RO/DI from my six stage unit.  I just make sure I change the carbon blocks every few months and figure if I keep up with my weekly water changes everything should be fine.  

I opted out of wasting money on the chlorine tests, about 95% of the reviews on them said they were useless.

 

Good way to know if its working, test the water straight from the tap. Most municipalities use chlorine, some use both chlorine and chloramine. Therefore there should be a result with a test kit.

Most ppl find the result is 0 out of tap but have verified their city uses chlorine.

 

7 hours ago, fulltang said:

 

Fantastic article, thank you.

 

 

I just ordered a free chlorine test kit, I'll cross reference my findings with what the water district said, although I do trust their word. I may just opt for the 5 stage Spectrapure chloramine kit anyway.

I purchased a 4 stage and added a cartridge. Its 5 stage but was cheaper then buying the pre built 5 stage.

 

 

The most expensive part is the chloramine carbon block. Here is costs $30.

[specore]

1 minute ago, Clown79 said:

I opted out of wasting money on the chlorine tests, about 95% of the reviews on them said they were useless.

 

Good way to know if its working, test the water straight from the tap. Most municipalities use chlorine, some use both chlorine and chloramine. Therefore there should be a result with a test kit.

Most ppl find the result is 0 out of tap but have verified their city uses chlorine.

 

I purchased a 4 stage and added a cartridge. Its 5 stage but was cheaper then buying the pre built 5 stage.

 

 

The most expensive part is the chloramine carbon block. Here is costs $30.

Yeah, I got 0 out of the tap too.  I run two chloramine blocks myself, no reason to take chances.  The only tank I have seen actually crash from chloramines though was one where he didn't do water changes and the chloramines just kept building up as he topped off.  I suspect a lot of people get by without worrying about chloramines because they do regular water changes, keeping the chloramine levels under control. 

[Clown79]

3 minutes ago, specore said:

Yeah, I got 0 out of the tap too.  I run two chloramine blocks myself, no reason to take chances.  The only tank I have seen actually crash from chloramines though was one where he didn't do water changes and the chloramines just kept building up as he topped off.  I suspect a lot of people get by without worrying about chloramines because they do regular water changes, keeping the chloramine levels under control. 

I didn't want to take chances either. Not overly worried but enough to buy 1 chloramine block and 1 regular carbon block.

 

 

 

[fulltang]

I ended up ordering the Spectrapure Chloramine 5 stage! I'm also getting a quote for some custom cnc'd bamboo plywood panels that I plan to magnetize with inset n52 magnets for this Imagitarium 40 gallon metal tank stand, making all sides completely seamless with the stand and fully removable. Exciting times!

 

I'm also going to be ordering the Autoaqua AWC for this setup, in conjunction with some 4.5 gallon dog food containers, which should give me enough capacity for 2% daily water changes for 2ish weeks. The game plan is to store the RO/DI water, and mix inside the 4.5 gallon reservior that the AWC will draw from. Any suggestions for salt that will keep this long? I've seen recommendations for Instant Ocean, but I'm not sure if I should get the reef crystals version or the standard stuff.

[Clown79]

Instant Ocean has no restrictions on storage time. I don't believe Reef Crystal's does either.

[specore]

5 hours ago, fulltang said:

I ended up ordering the Spectrapure Chloramine 5 stage! I'm also getting a quote for some custom cnc'd bamboo plywood panels that I plan to magnetize with inset n52 magnets for this Imagitarium 40 gallon metal tank stand, making all sides completely seamless with the stand and fully removable. Exciting times!

 

I'm also going to be ordering the Autoaqua AWC for this setup, in conjunction with some 4.5 gallon dog food containers, which should give me enough capacity for 2% daily water changes for 2ish weeks. The game plan is to store the RO/DI water, and mix inside the 4.5 gallon reservior that the AWC will draw from. Any suggestions for salt that will keep this long? I've seen recommendations for Instant Ocean, but I'm not sure if I should get the reef crystals version or the standard stuff.

People will poo poo Instant Ocean here, but it is a solid enough product.  .  Recently switched from ESV to Live Aquaria Professional Salt and have been pleased with the LA product as well.  It's inexpensive and mixes nicely. 

[Tamberav]

On 12/14/2018 at 6:59 AM, specore said:

Is there a chlorine test you recommend?

 

I have the test strips from BRS and frankly don't think they tell me a damn thing.  Pretty much looks looks like zero whether I test my tap (which I know has chloramines) or the RO/DI from my six stage unit.  I just make sure I change the carbon blocks every few months and figure if I keep up with my weekly water changes everything should be fine.  

 

I don't use strips, I know some of the strips don't test anything below 10ppm so likely users bought the wrong stuff, and strips just suck anyways. I woudn't use strips to test my Nitrate so why anything else?

 

 I used one from spectrapure. It definitely does NOT read 0 out of tap. (It is not a strip) I assume since its from them, its probably at least somewhat reliable for its range because they sell it to test the carbon blocks for their systems.

 

On a side note, prime must take care of it too because I use tap in my QT tanks treated with prime and everything seems to do well.

 

Sorry for late reply, worked a lot this week. Sounds like you have it covered anyways. It never hurts to be overly cautious.