Low Maintenance First Tank - Questions

[fulltang]

Hello everyone,

 

I had originally posted in the Pico subforum, but after some more research I think my questions will be better suited for this one.

 

Allow me to preface this by saying that I've never owned a fish tank in my life. I live near the ocean (Monterey bay area), and as a younger person I was surfing every day, my life essentially revolved around the ocean. The ocean was my therapy. Sadly, I had to give it up due to health issues, and it took me a long time to cope with that loss. The other day I was browsing Youtube and stumbled on coral reef tanks! They totally blew me away.

 

The thought of cultivating a small piece of that beauty in my own home is extremely enticing. Combine that with my propensity for hobbies, especially photography, I have to try it out in one way or another.

 

Over the past few days I've come to terms with the fact that I don't have the time and energy that is required to maintain a serious nano tank. In addition to that, I have a 4-6 week international trip planned for next year and I don't want to detract from that by worrying about my tank. I understand that in most cases, stability and (visually interesting) ultra low maintenance tanks are earned, not given. In a sense, I'd like heavily involved frequent maintenance to be an option rather than a requirement.

 

I'd like softies (zoa especially)/gorgs/a small amount of macroalgae. I would like the option of adding some LPS in the future, if that won't require weekly water changes. I'm undecided on fish, it will be something very small and possibly just inverts, I just don't feel good about the idea of keeping a fish in a small tank. I will say that I think a lot of shrimps/inverts are really interesting, so that's an option. I'd be lying if I said I didn't think a goby and shrimp pair sounds cool! I'm primarily interested in the beauty of coral, though.

 

With that in mind, my goals are as follows:

 

1. A silent AIO tank as it will be going in my bedroom

2. Ideally monthly water changes, 2.5/3 week max, no more than a few gallons at a time

4. Keep the tank in the 4 to 10g range. My room gets hot a few days every summer, in the 80's, so I think that might also dictate the capacity?

5. Stay relatively affordable

 

 

I welcome any suggestions for tanks/setups that cross off all of those, if it's even possible for a diligent noob to achieve such things. I think a cube form factor would be ideal for the space I'm planning on using. Would I be better off going with a sort of sandless/coral only/with a good lid to minimize evaporation setup? One that I absolutely love is Gena's stripped down IM10 . I do understand that it takes a long time to get to where that tank is at, and I do want to keep it as interesting as possible in the early days

 

Here's where I'm planning on putting my tank, my old 3D printing cabinet!

 

 

 

[ninjamyst]

are you planning on keeping the door closed?  You do nee ventilation for the tank for oxygen exchange.  You can definitely do an IM 10 with just a shrimp / goby pair and keep it low maintenance.  

[fulltang]

30 minutes ago, ninjamyst said:

are you planning on keeping the door closed?  You do nee ventilation for the tank for oxygen exchange.  You can definitely do an IM 10 with just a shrimp / goby pair and keep it low maintenance.  

 

I was planning on keeping it shut at night when I'm asleep, but I hadn't considered the ventilation requirement. I can just take the door off if it's silent enough.

 

Interestingly enough, I actually installed the door in such a way that there's a gap at the top and I installed 2 120mm fans in the back of the cabinet,  leftovers from my 3d printing days. I won't assume that these two factors will be good enough without expert opinions, though.

 

 

[ninjamyst]

I would be worried about temperature too if you live somewhere that gets hot in the summer.  The two fan and the door gap definitely help but I will let others weigh in.

[fulltang]

26 minutes ago, ninjamyst said:

I would be worried about temperature too if you live somewhere that gets hot in the summer.  The two fan and the door gap definitely help but I will let others weigh in.

 

Here are the temps for the September of this year, my room will get into the 70s on average, mid to low 80s on the hotter days and one or two days in the high 80s. The wall that the cabinet is up against gets beaten down by the sun. What ambient temperature is the max that is generally acceptable for tanks in that capacity range? I've never monitored the temp inside the cabinet itself, but perhaps I can further modify it to keep it cool.

 

Another option is to put it in my closet, which has been converted into more of a storage area, as I've installed a shelf that spans the entire width and depth. I believe it stays quite a bit cooler in there during that time of year. My only concern with that is the sound of the tank as it's literally right next to my bed.

 

edit: I just learned that chillers are a thing, so maybe I'll have a look at those. That will be quite a bit cheaper than many alternatives, especially because my window won't really allow for an easy AC installation.

 

double edit: Or I can swap out one of the regular case fans with one or two of these and a temp controller: https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-Cooling-Ventilation-Projects/dp/B009OWVUJ0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525491245&sr=8-1&keywords=pancake+fan&dpID=51bOaftinkL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

[Clown79]

If you want an easy set up that requires less maintenance, sticking with softies is the way to go.

 

Lps will require frequent testing and then eventually dosing alk and ca as they consume both. Alk stability is very essential to LPS.

 

Most Gorgs need regular feeding which can lead to higher nutrients.

 

Any stand you choose will need to be able to withstand the weight of the tank. Water is 8lbs/gallon plus sand and rocks.

 

Good ventilation is needed as well.

 

Another thing is lighting. There needs to be room for the light and ventilation for it.

 

 

Also a main consideration is how difficult will it be to do maintenance on the tank like removing media, doing waterchanges, vacuuming sand, vacuuming the back chambers, etc. Consider this with the location of the tank.

[fulltang]

8 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

If you want an easy set up that requires less maintenance, sticking with softies is the way to go.

 

Lps will require frequent testing and then eventually dosing alk and ca as they consume both. Alk stability is very essential to LPS.

 

Most Gorgs need regular feeding which can lead to higher nutrients.

 

Any stand you choose will need to be able to withstand the weight of the tank. Water is 8lbs/gallon plus sand and rocks.

 

Good ventilation is needed as well.

 

Another thing is lighting. There needs to be room for the light and ventilation for it.

 

 

 

Understood, I've decided against keeping the tank inside the cabinet. I'll likely be replacing it with something more substantial given the weight of the tank. Do you happen to know of a particular tank/journal that might fit the bill, or might be a source of inspiration for my goals? I appreciate the help.

[Clown79]

There are tons of builds on here for 10g aio.

 

You can do a search and probably spend days going through them. Lol.

 

There is an Innovative marine thread on here with a lot of 10g tanks.

[fulltang]

30 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

There are tons of builds on here for 10g aio.

 

You can do a search and probably spend days going through them. Lol.

 

There is an Innovative marine thread on here with a lot of 10g tanks.

 

I have been browsing the IM 10g thread, there's a lot to absorb there 🙂

 

How quiet is your 10g? It's hard to get a sense for how loud these little tanks are as most videos I've found have music or a ton of voiceover.

[Clown79]

8 hours ago, fulltang said:

 

I have been browsing the IM 10g thread, there's a lot to absorb there 🙂

 

How quiet is your 10g? It's hard to get a sense for how loud these little tanks are as most videos I've found have music or a ton of voiceover.

Mine is really quiet. I don't hear any noise from it, maybe a tiny bit of water trickle noise but that will happen with tanks.

It's a simple set up.

 

I upgraded the pump and use no powerhead. I have a heater, inkbird controller for the heater, media basket, and light. That's it.

 

I manually top up but if you want little maintenance an ato will be required. Not sure how loud those are.

 

 

[fulltang]

1 hour ago, Clown79 said:

Mine is really quiet. I don't hear any notice from it, maybe a tiny bit of water trickle noise but that will happen with tanks.

It's a simple set up.

 

I upgraded the pump and use no powerhead. I have a heater, inkbird controller for the heater, media basket, and light. That's it.

 

I manually top up but if you want little maintenance an ato will be required. Not sure how loud those are.

 

 

 

Gotcha!

 

I've narrowed it down to the Fluval 13.5, IM10 and IM14 as it seems the water change amount will be roughly the same for all. Is there any clear winner between these in regards to design and aftermarket? It'll be going in a corner if that matters.

[Clown79]

IM's are very popular. Thicker glass, I believe larger back chambers.

 

The evo is nice and gaining a following but most will say the IM.

 

I have a fluval spec and 2 IM's. the IM's are my favourite.

[lkoechle]

I would go with the peninsula IM 14 since you're reconsidering you're stand.  It's my 100 days of nanos tank (see link in signature) or you can just Google 100 days of nanos and find everyone's tank thread for that contest.  Your ato will be tricky because no one's reservoire lasts 4 to 6 weeks unless you go with a 5 to 10 gallon reservoir at least.  So you will want to consider that.  What are your plans as far as feeding as well? If you have fish or even inverts they will need food.  If you have some one feeding, they can switch ato containers for you.  Those are the two things I would be most concerned about.

[fulltang]

4 hours ago, lkoechle said:

I would go with the peninsula IM 14 since you're reconsidering you're stand.  It's my 100 days of nanos tank (see link in signature) or you can just Google 100 days of nanos and find everyone's tank thread for that contest.  Your ato will be tricky because no one's reservoire lasts 4 to 6 weeks unless you go with a 5 to 10 gallon reservoir at least.  So you will want to consider that.  What are your plans as far as feeding as well? If you have fish or even inverts they will need food.  If you have some one feeding, they can switch ato containers for you.  Those are the two things I would be most concerned about.

 

I have housemates who are willing to cover for me which solved that for the most part.

 

I started adding up the cost of everything and now I'm hesitating a bit, I'm going to continue researching though.

[specore]

14 hours ago, fulltang said:

 

Understood, I've decided against keeping the tank inside the cabinet. I'll likely be replacing it with something more substantial given the weight of the tank. Do you happen to know of a particular tank/journal that might fit the bill, or might be a source of inspiration for my goals? I appreciate the help.

That's a good call, as my immediate reaction was the same as @Clown79.  Tanks don't need as much support as many think, but a shelf without any sort of face frame is going to sag pretty badly.  

[lkoechle]

7 hours ago, fulltang said:

 

I have housemates who are willing to cover for me which solved that for the most part.

 

I started adding up the cost of everything and now I'm hesitating a bit, I'm going to continue researching though.

Keep in mind, there are many ways to do a reef. My first saltwater was a ten gallon walmart set up with two circulation pumps and an aquaclear 70 HOB filter.  I kept zoas, gsp and a couple clowns.  Nothing to brag about, but good practice with a low entry price point.  As we got more experienced, I kept a pico with a tank I got on sale. And then we found a really good ad for an 85 and that was our first really expensive tank. mainly because we decided to go all out and automate everything. But everything I learned on the smaller tanks from doing everything manually was vital in helping me understand what type of equipment I wanted on our large tank.  I still choose to automate any sps dedicated tank and have a super simple cheap tank (this is now the IM 14) that I can experiment with on the side.  

 

You can also look for a local group on FB. Say hey, I am starting my first tank, price point has me nervous. Anyone have any good deals on: and then list out what you need.

 

Most of us have enough equipment (including tanks) we are willing to get rid of for cheap. I just traded a full tank yesterday for some frags.  And was only looking to sell it for $40 and it was everything. Just add rock and water.  So there are good deals to be had. And most folks are generous.

[fulltang]

17 minutes ago, lkoechle said:

Keep in mind, there are many ways to do a reef. My first saltwater was a ten gallon walmart set up with two circulation pumps and an aquaclear 70 HOB filter.  I kept zoas, gsp and a couple clowns.  Nothing to brag about, but good practice with a low entry price point.  As we got more experienced, I kept a pico with a tank I got on sale. And then we found a really good ad for an 85 and that was our first really expensive tank. mainly because we decided to go all out and automate everything. But everything I learned on the smaller tanks from doing everything manually was vital in helping me understand what type of equipment I wanted on our large tank.  I still choose to automate any sps dedicated tank and have a super simple cheap tank (this is now the IM 14) that I can experiment with on the side.  

 

You can also look for a local group on FB. Say hey, I am starting my first tank, price point has me nervous. Anyone have any good deals on: and then list out what you need.

 

Most of us have enough equipment (including tanks) we are willing to get rid of for cheap. I just traded a full tank yesterday for some frags.  And was only looking to sell it for $40 and it was everything. Just add rock and water.  So there are good deals to be had. And most folks are generous.

 

Thank you for the words of wisdom! I have noticed how supportive the reef tank community is, it's awesome! I checked out your thread by the way, beautiful im14 🙂

 

Here are the parts I'm considering at the moment:

 

IM14 - $180

Jebao DCS-1200 DC return pump - $60 (I heard the stock pump is loud, and from what I've read this one is quiet. Do you think this is enough of a flow upgrade to eliminate the for a power head in the tank?)

Finnex 100w heater - $45

inTank basket - $50

AI Prime - $200

Smart ATO - $134

Refractometer - $35

15lbs reef cleaner's rock - $40

Flipper nano - $30

Chemipure blue nano - $12

Purigen - $10

Filter Floss - $13

Gravel pump - $7

 

Still need to research what sand, salt and test kit to use.

 

That's adding up quickly. I'll check out the local groups as well, do you have any suggestions as to where I might be able to save some money given my tank parameters?

 

[Clown79]

Like @lkoechle has mentioned, there are many ways to have a beautiful reef that is cost effective.

 

You could do a standard tank(cheap), an hob filter, lights, powerhead, ato, heater. 

No need for pump, and with the hob you can just add a decent powerhead like the hydor 240 or 420(depending on tank size)

 

I started that way with my 55g and my 15g. 

 

Get all black equipment, have a black background and it all blends in nicely.

 

Buying carbon in bulk and putting it in a media bag cuts costs too.

 Chemipure doesn't last 4 mnths. It needs changing at least monthly...which gets costly.

 

You can buy floss in bulk. Many use pillow stuffing at walmart. Just ensure its flame retardant free. 

 

You could go bare bottom and save on the costs of sand which also cuts maintenance.

[fulltang]

2 hours ago, Clown79 said:

Like @lkoechle has mentioned, there are many ways to have a beautiful reef that is cost effective.

 

You could do a standard tank(cheap), an hob filter, lights, powerhead, ato, heater. 

No need for pump, and with the hob you can just add a decent powerhead like the hydor 240 or 420(depending on tank size)

 

I started that way with my 55g and my 15g. 

 

Get all black equipment, have a black background and it all blends in nicely.

 

Buying carbon in bulk and putting it in a media bag cuts costs too.

 Chemipure doesn't last 4 mnths. It needs changing at least monthly...which gets costly.

 

You can buy floss in bulk. Many use pillow stuffing at walmart. Just ensure its flame retardant free. 

 

You could go bare bottom and save on the costs of sand which also cuts maintenance.

 

I'm definitely the type of person who prefers to buy once, cry once, but I'll definitely research that path.

 

Question about sand, is there any problem with starting bare bottom and adding sand later? I really love the goby/pistol pair but it seems as though bare bottom really reduces the difficulty.

 

edit: I'm heavily considering the Fluval 13.5 right now. Although it's not as aesthetically pleasing overall, I really prefer the form factor over the taller IM 14

[Tamberav]

I have a IM10g next to my head right where I sleep and it is silent (it's currently my QT tank). The key is picking out equipment that is very quiet. 

 

Chillers are noisy when they kick on so avoid one if you can.

 

I personally wouldn't do HOB, at least not Aquaclears, mine was noisy. 

 

Jebao wave makers were noisy for me, not sure about the return pumps.

 

Some ATO's are noisy, I think the micro ATO you have picked out is quiet though as it uses a tiny pump. 

 

I went with a lower flow return pump and lower flow = quiet. And then supplemented with a MP10 on the lowest setting.. again silent. Having pumps run on such low settings keeps everything very quiet. 

 

I agree with Clown, stick to softies, LPS won't appreciate infrequent water changes, especially without dosing. The Ca/Alk just simply won't keep up. 

 

Here is what it looked like when I had it set up, was simple.

 

 

[fulltang]

5 hours ago, Tamberav said:

I have a IM10g next to my head right where I sleep and it is silent (it's currently my QT tank). The key is picking out equipment that is very quiet. 

 

Chillers are noisy when they kick on so avoid one if you can.

 

I personally wouldn't do HOB, at least not Aquaclears, mine was noisy. 

 

Jebao wave makers were noisy for me, not sure about the return pumps.

 

Some ATO's are noisy, I think the micro ATO you have picked out is quiet though as it uses a tiny pump. 

 

I went with a lower flow return pump and lower flow = quiet. And then supplemented with a MP10 on the lowest setting.. again silent. Having pumps run on such low settings keeps everything very quiet. 

 

I agree with Clown, stick to softies, LPS won't appreciate infrequent water changes, especially without dosing. The Ca/Alk just simply won't keep up. 

 

Here is what it looked like when I had it set up, was simple.

 

 

 

Interesting, so it's likely that a lower flow return pump and mp10 is going to run silent, in comparison to an upgraded return pump. I'll have to think about how much value I place on not having a power head in the display. Do you happen to have video with tank audio by chance?

 

And yeah, as much as I love the look of LPS, I need to start simple and get a feel for the level of commitment and reward I derive from this hobby first and go from there.

[Clown79]

8 minutes ago, fulltang said:

 

Interesting, so it's likely that a lower flow return pump and mp10 is going to run silent, in comparison to an upgraded return pump. I'll have to think about how much value I place on not having a power head in the display. Do you happen to have video with tank audio by chance?

 

And yeah, as much as I love the look of LPS, I need to start simple and get a feel for the level of commitment and reward I derive from this hobby first and go from there.

It depends on the pump.

 

I run maxijet 600 in my 10g which is silent, sicce's are silent, stock IM pump isn't quiet but not overly loud.

 

My upgraded aqueon pump in my 5g is silent too.

[ninjamyst]

13 hours ago, fulltang said:

 

Thank you for the words of wisdom! I have noticed how supportive the reef tank community is, it's awesome! I checked out your thread by the way, beautiful im14 🙂

 

Here are the parts I'm considering at the moment:

 

IM14 - $180

Jebao DCS-1200 DC return pump - $60 (I heard the stock pump is loud, and from what I've read this one is quiet. Do you think this is enough of a flow upgrade to eliminate the for a power head in the tank?)

Finnex 100w heater - $45

inTank basket - $50

AI Prime - $200

Smart ATO - $134

Refractometer - $35

15lbs reef cleaner's rock - $40

Flipper nano - $30

Chemipure blue nano - $12

Purigen - $10

Filter Floss - $13

Gravel pump - $7

 

Still need to research what sand, salt and test kit to use.

 

That's adding up quickly. I'll check out the local groups as well, do you have any suggestions as to where I might be able to save some money given my tank parameters?

 

Ditch the inTank basket.  Make your own if you need one from egg crates and zip ties.  Should cost you $5 - $10.  You don't need Purigen if you are running Chemipure Blue.  Skip the ATO for now.  You can get that later on.  Just manually add water and ask your roommates to add water when you are gone.  Get an use AI Prime for $150 or get the Kessil A80 for cheaper since you are only doing softies.  Heater, refractometer, flipper nano - you can find all those for cheaper than what you listed.  Either get them used or get them during a sale.  Look for local reef forums, plenty of people with big reefs that can give or sell you live rock / sand for cheap.  People THROW away GSP and xenia all the time.  There are many ways to save on a reef. 

[Tamberav]

1 hour ago, fulltang said:

 

Interesting, so it's likely that a lower flow return pump and mp10 is going to run silent, in comparison to an upgraded return pump. I'll have to think about how much value I place on not having a power head in the display. Do you happen to have video with tank audio by chance?

 

And yeah, as much as I love the look of LPS, I need to start simple and get a feel for the level of commitment and reward I derive from this hobby first and go from there.

I am not saying you have to buy a mp10....just that bigger pumps are generally louder but brand matters too. Also regardless what you choose many pumps tend to make noise when first set up and once they break in and slime up with bacteria they become quiet. So don't be alarmed when you first set up your tank.

 

 

[Clown79]

You can save on lights too. There are many budget lights that are good lights.

 

Abi tuna blue par38

Hipargero

Aquamaxx nemolight

Micmol

 

Softies don't require high light.