Tropic Marin All In One Dosing?

[xM3THODx]

I've switched to Tropic Marin Carbocalcium, which is like super kalk, since Sept. 2018. I've heard about the ALL for Reef product after I started the Carbocalcium, but stayed with CarboC. I felt it was too risky to give up all control of the elements.  

 

 

[LiZhiYung]

So, I know it's been 1 year and you have stop using it. But, do you think it's ok to dose it manually ? And after each dose, keep it in the frige for freshness ? I'm gonna get an SPS pico 3.5 gallons reef, and thinking about this solution with 50% water change weekly.

[Travis]

Yeh that would probably be just fine.

But on a pico, a water change might be just as easy lol. 

[br88dy]

On 2/16/2019 at 6:32 AM, Travis said:

Well....problems....

 

The TM All The Reef has failed me...

 

My alk was dropping this past week so I started to bump up the dose but couldn't get it to come up.  Over the past week or two it has dropped from 10 to 8.2 this morning.

 

I had time today to inspect everything and what I found was disappointing. First, I found that the dosing line near the exit into the sump was clogged with a chuck of calcium carbonate, uggghhh.

 

But secondly, and most disturbingly was this.

 

 

Yeh, black goo growing on the bottom of the container. Bacteria I suppose? I only had about 200 mL left out of the 1000 mL.

 

Was TM All For Reef bad for my tank? No, it definitely grew coral.

As seen here.

 

With the clogged dosing line and bacteria growth inside the bottle, I'm not sure I can recommend this product anymore.

I wonder if what you saw wasn't mold, but a red/orange sediment. Other users are noticing a rust colored sediment while making a DIY All For Reef recipe (which comes to 1/3 the price of the 1L premixed bottle, and the recipe is provided by Tropic Marin themselves). If you're ever wanting to come back to All For Reef, Reef 2 Reef has a great thread where Hans-Werner himself answers great questions about "maximum" dosages, the science behind mixing K+ and A- in a single solution, and other really great pieces of info about All For Reef. The thread is titled "DIY All-For-Reef Recipe from Tropic Marin! Thanks Zack!". I'm not sure if there are rules that prohibit linking to other forums, but it's really easy to find. It was created Oct 28th, 2019 on Reef 2 Reef by randyBRS.

[mcarroll]

Incidental and maybe unrelated but "raw" calcium chloride (aka driveway salt) leaves a reddish-orange precipitate when dissolved in water. 

 

Not sure what it is, but it's mentioned in the purification process for making food-grade brine out of calcium chloride (dissolve the raw cacl2 in water and draw off the resulting clear liquid - your brine - and leave the sediment) and seems harmless to the reef when it's gotten into my tank. 

 

Guessing maybe it's some kind of phosphate residue since phosphates seem to have an affinity for calcium minerals just like GFO does, but I really don't know.  Maybe sulpher instead?  I've asked online about the residue from calcium chloride before and nobody would even hazard a guess.  (Plenty of folks used the question as an opportunity to make a marketing plug for their favorite chemical vendor tho. 🙄)

 

The USDA AMS has this document that has TONS of info on calcium chloride.....from it, seems like magnesium is likely to be the main component of the precipitate I see in the DIY calcium solution....with several other element of lesser concentration possible as well:

https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/Calcium Chloride 1 TR.pdf

 

I'm pretty sure I'm using the "94-97% pure anhydrous" product mentioned.  (Lines 135-137)

 

Hard to guess for sure what Tropic Marin would be using since their sources aren't here in the USA, but they might be pretty similar to one of few sources described in the doc.

[geekreef_05]

Over the last 2 weeks, Ive been dosing all-for-reef and the precipitate problem got me thinking about small aquariums. 

 

For my approximate 10.5 gallons of water volume Im dosing at the min between 0.1 and 0.2 ml at a time (2ml total per day). With very minimal dosing schedule, I feel like its really contributing to the build-up of precipitate. Yesterday I removed a nugget of white build-up and wondered how consistent this really is.... how many ml where in that nugget that didnt get into my tank...and what has that done to my (gasp) parameters? 

 

Ultimately gotta consider, is there a better way to dose?

What if my dosing line goes.. yikes...below the water line? 

 

[geekreef_05]

Hm, upon some googling others seem to put their dosing pump in the flow of the ATO. 

Im gonna try that over lunch break. 

[onthefly]

I'm going to be using the DIY version of this on my 90ga.  The one component that seems to get out of whack over time on some tanks (e.g. SPS dominant tanks) is Alk can start to trail off.  Per TM instructions, if the tank demands require more Alk (simply dose a bit of TM Balling B) to correct the deficiency, then continue with the 1-part.

 

for those who want to make the DIY version:

750ml RO/DI

add 140g TM CarboCalcium

   -mix

Add 12g TM Bio-Magnesium

Add 100mL Pro-Trace A-

Add 100mL Pro-Trace K+

   - mix until clear (~20min)

 

If you buy the largest versions of each...it will make 10L of DIY All-for-Reef for $130.  10L of All-for-Reef (1L at a time) = ~$330

[geekreef_05]

Pretty cool. Approximately how long do you think will that last you on the 90gallon? 

[A.m.P]

2 hours ago, onthefly said:

I'm going to be using the DIY version of this on my 90ga.  The one component that seems to get out of whack over time on some tanks (e.g. SPS dominant tanks) is Alk can start to trail off.  Per TM instructions, if the tank demands require more Alk (simply dose a bit of TM Balling B) to correct the deficiency, then continue with the 1-part.

 

for those who want to make the DIY version:

750ml RO/DI

add 140g TM CarboCalcium

   -mix

Add 12g TM Bio-Magnesium

Add 100mL Pro-Trace A-

Add 100mL Pro-Trace K+

   - mix until clear (~20min)

 

If you buy the largest versions of each...it will make 10L of DIY All-for-Reef for $130.  10L of All-for-Reef (1L at a time) = ~$330

Honestly you can make it infinitely-more affordable by skipping the trace elements, get them from waterchanges or something cheap like chaetogrow instead.

[onthefly]

2 hours ago, geekreef_05 said:

Pretty cool. Approximately how long do you think will that last you on the 90gallon? 

Not sure yet.....as I haven't started dosing.  I've seen people say they dose between 10-70ml/day depending on the tank.

[onthefly]

44 minutes ago, A.m.P said:

Honestly you can make it infinitely-more affordable by skipping the trace elements, get them from waterchanges or something cheap like chaetogrow instead.

Honestly though is $60 for 10L worth of trace elements not affordable?  For a small tank...completely agree -> more water changes!