Tropic Marin All In One Dosing?

[Andreww]

Interesting. Following along for more info. Looks like a fine option for nanos.

[Travis]

I also decided to give the "optional" elements a try while I was at it.

 

 

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/pro-coral-k-trace-2-tropic-marin.html

 

From the Tropic Marin Website

Quote

To further intensify the colour of the corals, we recommend the trace elements solution Tropic Marin^® K⁺ELEMENTS; the A^- ELEMENTS are already contained in the product. 

 

[MrObscura]

Maybe I'm missing something, but he doesn't seem to say it does anything for mag. He's seems to be talking about cal and Alk all in one's. 

 

Im still not sure an Alk component and a mag component can be combined based on what he's said in the past. 

[Travis]

2 minutes ago, MrObscura said:

Maybe I'm missing something, but he doesn't seem to say it does anything for mag. He's seems to be talking about cal and Alk all in one's. 

 

Im still not sure an Alk component and a mag component can be combined based on what he's said in the past. 

Just posted the question.

[MrObscura]

So did I. Lol

[Travis]

And here’s the answer for anyone not following the other thread 🙂

 

Quote

It will deliver as much as they put in, but I do not know how much that is, and to some extent, the magnesium demand is guesswork as it varies between coralline and various types of corals.  

[Andreww]

5 minutes ago, Travis said:

And here’s the answer for anyone not following the other thread 🙂

 

Not a deal breaker . For us who dose manually (still), and dose ALK in the morning and CA in the afternoon, it would take one dose out of the schedule. 

 

Edit: Magnesium is dosed intermittently on most tanks. Even so, for ppl using dosing pumps, it would free up a channel to dose something else .

[MrObscura]

Guess I was wrong. I wish he'd have gone into how exactly mag can be combined with the other elements but oh well. 

[RayWhisperer]

He did. You just can’t read between the lines. There is no carbonate in solution. Therefore nothing that would cause mag to precipitate out, or be useless. The product uses calcium acetate. As the biological components of your tank metabolism the acetate, the byproduct is carbonate. So, what you are doing, is dosing the tank with calcium. The bacteria utilize the solution the calcium is in, producing carbonate as a byproduct. In simplest terms. Calcium now, alkalinity as the bacteria provide it.

[Travis]

18 minutes ago, RayWhisperer said:

He did. You just can’t read between the lines. There is no carbonate in solution. Therefore nothing that would cause mag to precipitate out, or be useless. The product uses calcium acetate. As the biological components of your tank metabolism the acetate, the byproduct is carbonate. So, what you are doing, is dosing the tank with calcium. The bacteria utilize the solution the calcium is in, producing carbonate as a byproduct. In simplest terms. Calcium now, alkalinity as the bacteria provide it.

Calcium Formate not Acetate. 

 

But the implemitation is genius.  😄

[RayWhisperer]

Formate, acetate, whatever. The rest is right.

[Tamberav]

Very interesting.... 

 

I wonder how the alk as bacteria provide it effects sps. Slower release sounds better but will it always be the same amount?

 

In winter my house is all closed up so I'd be curious as to the pH drop.

 

It sounds like we also don't know how much magnesium? Could it become too much? Too little? Since we dose based on alk it's not like we could just add more or less mg in an all in one.

[Travis]

I’ve got a fuge running on my tank so added co2 isn’t actually a bad thing lol. 

 

I think that the alk being matabalized slowly is a non issue. After the first day the alk should stabilize as dosing continues daily. 

[RayWhisperer]

Mag is easily replenished via water changes, Epsom salts (mag sulfate) or mag chloride or a combination of the two. It shouldn’t be precipitated out, so a weekly check should suffice. So, even if the product has a lower amount than typically needed (which I doubt since they’ve been making salt, 2 part, and other reef products) you can easily raise it. 

 

The ph drop is due to bacterial respiration. A simple skimmer, or refugium would easily counter any ph drop due to that. During the daylight hours, corals will be photosynthesizing, so I doubt you’d see much more than any usual wintertime ph drop. If it’s that troublesome, open a few windows just a crack for a few hours. Your furnace will cycle a bit trying to keep up, but that should straighten any ph problem pretty quickly.

 

As for the alk increase. Amount would depend on how much you dose. Time would be determined by the bacterial population within your system. Obviously, the more you have, the quicker they utilize the carbon source. However, this brings up the other side of the product. You’re basically carbon dosing your system. So, with every dose, you should be increasing bacterial populations dramatically.

[Tamberav]

I wonder the impact with the carbon dosing? If a tank already has low nutrients than seems like it could have a negative impact. But perhaps is is a tiny amount. Usually people who carbon dose use a skimmer but not all nanos have skimmers. 

 

The idea of it seems fantastic though for certain tanks. alk + ca + mg + carbon dosing AIO. 

[Travis]

Non Detectable nitrate and phosphate isn’t an issue if you are vigilant about feeding coral foods like reef roids and reef chilly. Dosing ammino acids too. 

[Travis]

And according to RHF, a skimmer is not necessary for carbon dosing. 

I’ll be putting that “quote” to the test as I dont run a skimmer. 

[RayWhisperer]

I've carbon dosed without skimming. However, it was to feed very large amounts of sponges. Without something to consume all that bacteria, I'd be worried. If Randy says it can be done, I have no reason to believe he would purposely steer someone wrong.

[Tamberav]

Yeah I would not want to do it without skimming, it can be done as scorched does it but it's not something I would want to add another 'variable' to go wrong... someday. When I used vinegar years ago my stuff would slime up enough to quickly clog the floss and filter socks because my skimmer sucked. Guessing not enough carbon in that product to cause such problems though. 

 

 

[William]

Hmm.... I may try this out 

[Tamberav]

1 hour ago, Travis said:

And according to RHF, a skimmer is not necessary for carbon dosing. 

I’ll be putting that “quote” to the test as I dont run a skimmer. 

Take this pill... this pill has side effects so take this other pill for that pill...

 

Big fan of feeding 🙂 I do like not like 0 though regardless. Makes me nervous.

 

All this is interesting, when I run out of 2part/kalk I will give it a go in my 25g. Thats a dirty ass tank anyways. Keep us posted!

[Travis]

1 minute ago, Tamberav said:

Yeah I would not want to do it without skimming, it can be done as scorched does it but it's not something I would want to add another 'variable' to go wrong... someday. When I used vinegar years ago my stuff would slime up with bacteria and the floss in the back chambers get clogged and overflow because my skimmer sucked. Guessing not enough carbon in that product to cause such problems though. 

 

 

That’s what I am thinking too. Supposedly ca formate carbon doses less than ca acetate. 

 

As I understand it, the product itself dosnt contain a carbon source. A carbon source is created when the ca and the formate separate and the formate breaks down in the water. 

[Travis]

If I see a white sheen of bacteria on the glass I’ll know it’s boosting the bacteria populations. 

 

At least we are finding ways to keep this hobby interesting 😆

[Tamberav]

14 minutes ago, Travis said:

If I see a white sheen of bacteria on the glass I’ll know it’s boosting the bacteria populations. 

 

At least we are finding ways to keep this hobby interesting 😆

Apex needs to release that auto alk/ca/mg tester than just release a system to measure and dose based on its test and I can just live the lazy life pretending I am successful at keeping corals and not my automated robots! 😄

 

 

[FSTanks]

Maybe a stupid noobie question but could the be dosed from an ATO... like some do with kalk?

If yes, pros/cons?