Stocking a 40 Breeder

[If_Only]

Long story short I was gonna a IM 25g lagoon because of the AIO and the Dimensions, I always liked 40breeders but I don't have the space for a sump but I don't want a ton of hang on equipment. Then finally I found a product called "Fiji AIO box" which you just slide into the tank and boom! its a AIO. So I'm going with a 40 breeder reef. Equipment and stocking are below.

 

Equipment

-Tunze 9001

-Chemipure blue

-Seachem Matrix

-Poly filter pad

-Ehiem Jager 150w heater

-Micro ATO

-Eflux 600 powerhead

-Current USA marine orbit (Will upgrade if I ever want to try harder corals)

-60 LBS of LR

-40 LBS of Arag-alive

 

Corals

-Zoas

-Toadstool Leather

-Finger Leather

-GSP (separate rock)

-Blasto

-Hammer

-Frogspawn

-Maybe a torch

 

Fish & Inverts

-1 Flame Angel

-1 Yellow Corris Wrasse

-Pair of OCC. Clowns

-1 Watchmen & shrimp pair

- 3-4 trochus snails

- 3-4 Narrsarius snails

-1 Cleaner shrimp

-1 Tuxedo urchin

 

Is this a good list? Is there anything you would change or take out? Any thoughts much appreciated.

[CoralStorm]

how big is the tank? if its nowhere near 70 gallons at least the tank is quite small for so much live rock

 

and a side not about zoas is based on my experiance they can just 'melt' for no apperent reason

[If_Only]

2 minutes ago, CoralStorm said:

how big is the tank? if its nowhere near 70 gallons at least the tank is quite small for so much live rock

 

and a side not about zoas is based on my experiance they can just 'melt' for no apperent reason

Its a 40 breeder so 40 gallons I might drop it down to 50 pounds but the LFS I help out at occasionally said they can order me any rock I like but it has to be in drops of 80lbs so I figure that I can just chisel off the parts of rock that I don't like and use roughly 60ish lbs. The dimensions of the tank are 36' x 18'

[CoralStorm]

use how much you like just make sure you have enough for those fish especially that flame angel they like space and also i think you can also get some more fish if you are looking for that

[If_Only]

2 hours ago, CoralStorm said:

use how much you like just make sure you have enough for those fish especially that flame angel they like space and also i think you can also get some more fish if you are looking for that

Alright im probably gonna just go with the 5 fish...

 

[Tangina20]

I agree on less rock. I have a 40 breeder with about 50 pounds and I’m about to take a lot of it out. I had an orbit light and I really don’t recommend it even for lps corals. I decided to go with a Chinese led black box light and I am getting a lot better growth. You should be fine with all of those fish but I have heard from a lot of people to stay away from flame angels, I really wanted one for myself but they will eat coral when they get big enough which isn’t worth the risk for me.

 

Here is a link to my 40b stock list and build. 

 

[mcarroll]

3 hours ago, If_Only said:

I always liked 40breeders but I don't have the space for a sump but I don't want a ton of hang on equipment.

Might want to consider a Tunze Reefpack 250:

 

Quote

Comline^® Reefpack 250

The Comline^® Reefpack 250 features an optimum combination of technical filter components for seawate... mehr

0250.000

 

213.96 USD

 

That set integrates flow, media reactor, skimmer AND hides your heater (which you supply) and ATO sensor (which you supply).

 

3 hours ago, If_Only said:

-Chemipure blue

-Seachem Matrix

-Poly filter pad

 

The first two are nearly redundant.  Carbon+GFO and Carbon, respectively.   Neither one should be used all the time.  Use carbon as needed.  Use GFO as needed.

 

If the third one on the list is this...

...then it's a good one to keep around, but also not needed continuously.  Use as-needed.

 

If you meant a generic poly(ester fiber) filter pad, then you can skip it altogether.

 

Unless you're running a peculiar system, then all three should mostly be not-needed.   I can count on one hand the number of times I've bought any of those over the last 10 years.  Should be similar for you.   (All three are fine products in their own right, BTW.)

 

3 hours ago, If_Only said:

-Ehiem Jager 150w heater

That's A LOT of heater for such a small tank.  If you go with the Reefpack system you'll be able to use a MUCH smaller heater. 

 

In fact the Reefpack filter unit maxes out at 75 watts on the heater for safety.....but since the heater gets placed inside a filter module, it's also much more efficient that just running in an open body of water.  You might not even need 75 watts.

3 hours ago, If_Only said:

-60 LBS of LR

-40 LBS of Arag-alive

That's a lot of live rock and a lot of sand. 

 

I'd consider using LESS than 40 pounds of rock.   (Less than 1 pound per gallon.)   I'd try for the tank to visually be no more than 1/3 full of rock.  This will be more than adequate for the bio-load.  (Please use real, actual live rock for best results.  Other stuff is mostly decoration/mounting places for corals and not much more.)

 

Sand quantity is really up to you, but more than an inch of sand usually becomes a problem unless you really know what you're doing.   (Having no sand is very easy to maintain and is a perfectly legitimate option if you hadn't considered it.)

3 hours ago, If_Only said:

Current USA marine orbit (Will upgrade if I ever want to try harder corals)

As long as you're buying one of their Orbit IC's, the Current USA light is perfect for corals.  FYI, the lower-end non-IC Orbits are fine for very shallow tanks....40B is on the edge of shallow, so if corals were in the upper half of the tank they'd be fine even under the non-IC's.

 

3 hours ago, If_Only said:

-1 Flame Angel

-1 Yellow Corris Wrasse

I'd pass on these.  The rest of the list looks fine.  (Possibly I'd slant the snail population about 80% toward algae eating snails vs about 20% detritavores like the nassarius.  But you'll have to update your CUC as conditions change over time anyway.  :)

[Jesterrace]

23 hours ago, If_Only said:

Long story short I was gonna a IM 25g lagoon because of the AIO and the Dimensions, I always liked 40breeders but I don't have the space for a sump but I don't want a ton of hang on equipment. Then finally I found a product called "Fiji AIO box" which you just slide into the tank and boom! its a AIO. So I'm going with a 40 breeder reef. Equipment and stocking are below.

 

Equipment

-Tunze 9001

-Chemipure blue

-Seachem Matrix

-Poly filter pad

-Ehiem Jager 150w heater

-Micro ATO

-Eflux 600 powerhead

-Current USA marine orbit (Will upgrade if I ever want to try harder corals)

-60 LBS of LR

-40 LBS of Arag-alive

 

Corals

-Zoas

-Toadstool Leather

-Finger Leather

-GSP (separate rock)

-Blasto

-Hammer

-Frogspawn

-Maybe a torch

 

Fish & Inverts

-1 Flame Angel

-1 Yellow Corris Wrasse

-Pair of OCC. Clowns

-1 Watchmen & shrimp pair

- 3-4 trochus snails

- 3-4 Narrsarius snails

-1 Cleaner shrimp

-1 Tuxedo urchin

 

Is this a good list? Is there anything you would change or take out? Any thoughts much appreciated.

I'd skip the Flame Angel.  They tend to be more aggressive to their tank mates and all dwarf angels can be coral nippers.  Add in the fact you are putting it in a generally smaller than recommended tank and your chances of long term success aren't great.  I had one in my 36 gallon and he was a jerk on both counts.  The Yellow Corris Wrasse in a 40 is also really pushing it as it gets between 5-6 inches when fully grown.  If you are going to attempt a Halichoeres Wrasse, I would go with the Red Lined (Biocellatus) as they tend to stay a bit smaller.   These type of Wrasses are super active and need a fair bit of horizontal swimming space (I have an  H.Melanurus in my 90 gallon and it definitely makes use of every inch of it).   If you are dead set on a dwarf angel, I would look into a Cherubfish or a Coral Beauty.  The Coral Beauty tends to be more mild in temperament than the Flame. 

 

https://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+1379+3075&pcatid=3075

 

 

As for the equipment, I agree definitely skip a Current Orbit Marine.  They are fully customizable but the lighting is super weak.  Their IC Pro line is better, but for the money you can get better lights on a tank 36 inches or smaller.  The Chinese Black Box is a good budget option, but if you want a solid light plus customization then the AI Prime HD is an incredible value (It's $200 per light plus mounting brackets though).  I would cut it back to 40lbs of LR, 60lbs will literally leave you with no space for the fish or anything else to move in a tank that size.  

[Donny41]

I have a 40 breeder as well and i tend to agree with the others in scaling back the amount of rock and choosing a different lighting option. I use an aqua illumination t5/led hybrid and my hydra 26 recently crapped out so I've been using my old current USA orbit to give my tank some sunrise/sunset as i don't have a dimmer for my t5s. It runs for an hour at full power before and after my t5s and its really dim and doesn't do much for my corals. 

 

My fish stocking is similar to yours (pair of clowns, watchman/pistol, fairy wrasse, purple firefish, tail spot blenny) so the size tank can definitely handle that  bio-load as long as you add stuff slowly

[mcarroll]

22 minutes ago, Jesterrace said:

Their IC Pro line is better, but for the money you can get better lights on a tank 36 inches or smaller.  The Chinese Black Box is a good budget option, but if you want a solid light plus customization then the AI Prime HD is an incredible value (It's $200 per light plus mounting brackets though).

Those are all fine lights.  I think AI has some of the best software and setup in the biz.

 

But I'm not sure you can do better on bang-for-your-buck than Current without going no-name/no-warrany/Chinese.   A pair of Primes would be required for good coverage, and that's more than double the cost of an Orbit IC for this tank.

 

Comparing a light from a US company that backs their product with excellent customer service and a great warranty to chinese no-names is not comparing apple-to-apples.  

 

Plus, current's offerings are MUCH less expensive than most other US companies that offer actual customer service and a warranty.

 

The fact that almost every other option is a spotlight and Current is one of the few to offer a strip format (more like T5 light) is another consideration.  Light from an Orbit IC gives your tank and corals nice, even coverage, and a very good intensity level.

 

Not talking "in my opinion" or "how I like it"....just talking with respect to coral needs.   Someone would still have to decide if they like it vs other options.....that's why seeing a light in action prior to purchase is a VERY good idea when possible.   Looking at tanks online is second best, but might be someone's best available option....in that case, look at videos more than pics since the colors tend to be more true and aren't as easy to doctor up with fake color as pics. 

 

(For what it's worth for background:  I'm using Ocean Revives these days, and I like em a lot....but they pretty much fit into the chinese value-mould.  I admit I haven't needed to try the warranty on their US distributers, so they might be OK to deal with during an issue vs the many vendors that do NOT have US distributors...but I can't claim to know.  I used DIY LEDs prior to this, and a Coralife halide-only light before that.  Had good results with all.  I did demo a Current IC Pro on my tank, but it wasn't my favorite look....I come from halides and still kinda like the drama.  The lights I have now are kind of a half-way design between T5-like and halide-like.  Spread is better than typical black boxes due to better emitter spread.)

[Sharbuckle]

100% agree with everyone saying less rock. I only had about 25 lbs in my 40 breeder. mind you i did have a sump and refugium, but anything more than 30lbs IMO is unnecessary. 

[mcarroll]

11 minutes ago, Sharbuckle said:

100% agree with everyone saying less rock. I only had about 25 lbs in my 40 breeder. mind you i did have a sump and refugium, but anything more than 30lbs IMO is unnecessary. 

+1 (again)

 

I have less rock in my 125G than I had in my original 37 gallon.   (Lots more coral tho.)

[Jesterrace]

2 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Those are all fine lights.  I think AI has some of the best software and setup in the biz.

 

But I'm not sure you can do better on bang-for-your-buck than Current without going no-name/no-warrany/Chinese.   A pair of Primes would be required for good coverage, and that's more than double the cost of an Orbit IC for this tank.

 

Comparing a light from a US company that backs their product with excellent customer service and a great warranty to chinese no-names is not comparing apple-to-apples.  

 

Plus, current's offerings are MUCH less expensive than most other US companies that offer actual customer service and a warranty.

 

The fact that almost every other option is a spotlight and Current is one of the few to offer a strip format (more like T5 light) is another consideration.  Light from an Orbit IC gives your tank and corals nice, even coverage, and a very good intensity level.

 

Not talking "in my opinion" or "how I like it"....just talking with respect to coral needs.   Someone would still have to decide if they like it vs other options.....that's why seeing a light in action prior to purchase is a VERY good idea when possible.   Looking at tanks online is second best, but might be someone's best available option....in that case, look at videos more than pics since the colors tend to be more true and aren't as easy to doctor up with fake color as pics. 

 

(For what it's worth for background:  I'm using Ocean Revives these days, and I like em a lot....but they pretty much fit into the chinese value-mould.  I admit I haven't needed to try the warranty on their US distributers, so they might be OK to deal with during an issue vs the many vendors that do NOT have US distributors...but I can't claim to know.  I used DIY LEDs prior to this, and a Coralife halide-only light before that.  Had good results with all.  I did demo a Current IC Pro on my tank, but it wasn't my favorite look....I come from halides and still kinda like the drama.  The lights I have now are kind of a half-way design between T5-like and halide-like.  Spread is better than typical black boxes due to better emitter spread.)

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree.  I just don't feel that anything that Current puts out promotes good overall coral growth outside of the IC Pro line (which is quite a bit more than either the plain IC or just regular Orbit Marine varieties).  Every time I compare them the other lights mentioned they just are dim by comparison.  I agree that the warranty and customization are definitely better than the Black Box variety, but then again is it better to have $200 lights that do a great job at promoting coral growth and take a bit of a risk on warranty or take a $136 light with a good warranty but marginal coral growth at best?  Only the person making the purchase can answer that question.

[If_Only]

I think I will drop the amount of rock, I might do two AI primes, but im kinda on a medium sized budget so If I do buy the 40 breeder ill do 2 AI primes, or I might do a smaller tank like a IM nuvo 20 and get a good light and get high quality equipment. But if I do the 40 breeder, (budget/ "boss of the house" 😉 allows it" cause filling the 40 breeder with coral might be a bit expensive, but thanks for all the help, and if a 40 breeder isn't big enough for a flame angel I might skip him, even though I love those fish...

[Jesterrace]

What about a Flameback Angel?  it's a pygmy like the Cherubfish:  

 

https://www.liveaquaria.com/product/446/flameback-angelfish?pcatid=446&c=15+16+446

 

 

Oh and have you considered Flasher Wrasses?  

 

https://aquarium-fish.liveaquaria.com/search?w=Flasher Wrasse

 

Might be a better alternative than the Halichoeres Wrasses since they stay smaller

[Tamberav]

Personally I wouldn't hesitate to put a small female coris in a 40. Never found them to be fast growers.

 

I would do a Chinese box over the 40b. I had one over a 40 from reef breeders and I had no problems with clams or bubbletips..ect.

 

I believe ocean box design makes an aio box and melves reef maybe and others .... Be sure to research you aio options to make sure it fits the equipment you want. Pointless to spend 130 on a box and can't get any good skimmers in it.

 

 

Just now, Tamberav said:

Personally I wouldn't hesitate to put a small female coris in a 40. Never found them to be fast growers.

 

I would do a Chinese box over the 40b. I had one over a 40 from reef breeders and I had no problems with clams or bubbletips..ect.

 

I believe ocean box design makes an aio box and melves reef maybe and others .... Be sure to research you aio options to make sure it fits the equipment you want. Pointless to spend 130 on a box and can't get any good skimmers in it.

 

 

 

On 12/2/2018 at 3:10 PM, If_Only said:

Long story short I was gonna a IM 25g lagoon because of the AIO and the Dimensions, I always liked 40breeders but I don't have the space for a sump but I don't want a ton of hang on equipment. Then finally I found a product called "Fiji AIO box" which you just slide into the tank and boom! its a AIO. So I'm going with a 40 breeder reef. Equipment and stocking are below.

 

Equipment

-Tunze 9001

-Chemipure blue

-Seachem Matrix

-Poly filter pad

-Ehiem Jager 150w heater

-Micro ATO

-Eflux 600 powerhead

-Current USA marine orbit (Will upgrade if I ever want to try harder corals)

-60 LBS of LR

-40 LBS of Arag-alive

 

Corals

-Zoas

-Toadstool Leather

-Finger Leather

-GSP (separate rock)

-Blasto

-Hammer

-Frogspawn

-Maybe a torch

 

Fish & Inverts

-1 Flame Angel

-1 Yellow Corris Wrasse

-Pair of OCC. Clowns

-1 Watchmen & shrimp pair

- 3-4 trochus snails

- 3-4 Narrsarius snails

-1 Cleaner shrimp

-1 Tuxedo urchin

 

Is this a good list? Is there anything you would change or take out? Any thoughts much appreciated.

 

[If_Only]

17 hours ago, Tamberav said:

Personally I wouldn't hesitate to put a small female coris in a 40. Never found them to be fast growers.

 

I would do a Chinese box over the 40b. I had one over a 40 from reef breeders and I had no problems with clams or bubbletips..ect.

 

I believe ocean box design makes an aio box and melves reef maybe and others .... Be sure to research you aio options to make sure it fits the equipment you want. Pointless to spend 130 on a box and can't get any good skimmers in it.

 

 

 

 

What light do you have, does it utilize a ramp up and down feature? those are some of the reasons I love the AI primes but I also like the Current USA pros but I've heard there not the best lights.

[Tamberav]

1 hour ago, If_Only said:

What light do you have, does it utilize a ramp up and down feature? those are some of the reasons I love the AI primes but I also like the Current USA pros but I've heard there not the best lights.

I had a photon 24 over mine. This was years ago so mine was an older style but I would assume the new style is just an upgraded version. Yes they are controllable. Careful, it is powerful and if you crank it up, you can cook corals. 

 

AI prime x2 is probably fine for a mixed reef with more simple corals. Shadowing I would think is something you need to realize/consider for inhabitants. 

 

I personally wouldn't go with current USA pro, not the best bang for the buck. Ramping/control is literally just for you to toy with. Don't sacrifice light for your coral for control. They won't care about control.

[If_Only]

57 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

I had a photon 24 over mine. This was years ago so mine was an older style but I would assume the new style is just an upgraded version. Yes they are controllable. Careful, it is powerful and if you crank it up, you can cook corals. 

 

AI prime x2 is probably fine for a mixed reef with more simple corals. Shadowing I would think is something you need to realize/consider for inhabitants. 

 

I personally wouldn't go with current USA pro, not the best bang for the buck. Ramping/control is literally just for you to toy with. Don't sacrifice light for your coral for control. They won't care about control.

Alright, and do you know of any other AIO boxes like the Fiji cube I've heard there are others but I can't find them?

[Tamberav]

31 minutes ago, If_Only said:

Alright, and do you know of any other AIO boxes like the Fiji cube I've heard there are others but I can't find them?

The places I thought sold them only do smaller and rimless tanks now it looks like.

 

Looks like this Fiji thing will fit a cad pls 50 elite II or a aquamaxx ws-1 so I take it back...this Fiji aio should work fine. Only thing you may need to DIY a media basket as filter socks suck!!

[If_Only]

19 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

The places I thought sold them only do smaller and rimless tanks now it looks like.

 

Looks like this Fiji thing will fit a cad pls 50 elite II or a aquamaxx ws-1 so I take it back...this Fiji aio should work fine. Only thing you may need to DIY a media basket as filter socks suck!!

It comes with a media basket... but im struggling I would love I tank like the IM SR series but they are pricy, and if I due a larger system I want to have a 4 ft tank that can house a tang but all the 4ft tanks are EXPENSIVE, so I might go with this tank but the other member of the house hold has made it clear that this is the only tank I will be getting for the nest 4-5ish years until we move... so I don't want to get something I regret...

[Tamberav]

1 hour ago, If_Only said:

It comes with a media basket... but im struggling I would love I tank like the IM SR series but they are pricy, and if I due a larger system I want to have a 4 ft tank that can house a tang but all the 4ft tanks are EXPENSIVE, so I might go with this tank but the other member of the house hold has made it clear that this is the only tank I will be getting for the nest 4-5ish years until we move... so I don't want to get something I regret...

 

Why don't you just find a used big tank in good condition if you want a big tank? It doesn't sound like you want a nano to me!

 

I got a reef ready (deep blue) 75g with stand for 250 unused. Just had to look around. Turned out, I hated big tanks and sold it again 😉 BE careful what ya wish for lol

When stores have sales here, the 75g tanks are $75 bucks. Not drilled but drilling is actually super easy so whatever. 

[If_Only]

9 hours ago, Tamberav said:

 

Why don't you just find a used big tank in good condition if you want a big tank? It doesn't sound like you want a nano to me!

 

I got a reef ready (deep blue) 75g with stand for 250 unused. Just had to look around. Turned out, I hated big tanks and sold it again 😉 BE careful what ya wish for lol

When stores have sales here, the 75g tanks are $75 bucks. Not drilled but drilling is actually super easy so whatever. 

The boss of the house has banned me from drilling... kinda sucks but I feel that like a 75 gallon reef would be pricey and be a tough first reef tank... but the fish are cool, I also want to provide optimal conditions for  my coral and doing that on a large scale is expensive... so I have no clue what to do...

[Tamberav]

Hmm I think 75g is the starter noob size on other sites that arnt nano dedicated. 

 

That is a weird thing to be banned from. If I tried to ban my husband from anything he would laugh at me....it goes both ways though... If I can't ban him...he can't ban me!

 

I liked my 40 breeder but I am just as happy with small fish so it's easier for me. 😛

 

 

[Donny41]

You could go for a 65 which I believe is the same footprint as the 40 just taller