Stange brown water and mysterious fish death

[CoralStorm]

recently i have been getting stange cloudy water thst has a beige hue to it i have done tests and everything checks out like it is a brand new fully cycled tank as that is what my tank the water is not foamy nor has an unusual odor to it my filters are due for a change but i doubt that has much to do with it also i had a strange fish death as my bi-color blenny after 2 to 3 weeks in tthe tank was found dead it looked attacked because of its damahed fins which if so only eyes me down to a few possible things it could be my saddleback clown pair, a diamond sleeper goby or my yellowtail damsel any help eould be very appericiated

[mcarroll]

Can you post a pic of the tank that shows what you're talking about?   

 

Can you post any/all test results you have?

 

I'd run some activated carbon vs any potential toxins until you can conform what you're dealing with.

[Tamberav]

+1 activated carbon. What size tank? Full list of fish stock? How long ago was it cycled?

 

Could be aggression but disease will also cause tattered fins.

 

As fish age they get more aggressive and if there isn't sufficient territory they may dispatch of those around them.

[CoralStorm]

2 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Can you post a pic of the tank that shows what you're talking about?   

 

Can you post any/all test results you have?

 

I'd run some activated carbon vs any potential toxins until you can conform what you're dealing with.

it does not seem bad from the front until you see the side but the camera sort of exagerates it a little my tests were

 

salinity- 1.025

nirite 0 ppm

nitrate 0.25 ppm

ammonia 0 ppm

 

[CoralStorm]

weird thing is that all my fish a reltuvley young currently i have 1 tomato clown in quarantene for ick but my full list is

1 diamond sleeper goby

a pair of saddleback clowns

a yellowtail damsel

6 blue-green chromis

30 blue legged hermits

5 red legged hermits

2 emerald crabs

1 pacific cleaner shrimp

1 fire shrimp

1 tomato clown

some coral frags and an anemone

[Tamberav]

What size tank?

How old is the tank?

Where do you get your water from? Tap? RO? Rodi? LFS?

How often do you do water changes and how many gallons?

What do you use for filtration? 

Do you clean the sand?

What do you use for flow?

Is that green hair algae on the rocks? Hard to tell.

 

Basically give us all the info you can about the tanks equipment and maintinance routine.

 

I would suspect the water is a bacterial or algae bloom.

 

 

 

[CoralStorm]

tank size-55 gal

tank age - 3 and a half months

water is decholirinated tap water

i use a 75 gallon mechanical filter

50 gallon fluval powerhead for flow

i dont have sand i have crushed coral

i dont clean my crushed coral

i do water changes every few days well sorta i always keep refilling my tank with fresh new water every other day

average temp is 77.7 F°

i am battleinh green algea but that is dieing off now i feed my fish twice a day with 2 small cubes of brine shrimp

(it seems like alot but my fish eat alot and sually my shrimp dont get any if i put less

i have a really good heater (dont remember the brand name all i remember i it starts with an e)

[Tamberav]

19 minutes ago, CoralStorm said:

tank size-55 gal

tank age - 3 and a half months

water is decholirinated tap water

i use a 75 gallon mechanical filter

50 gallon fluval powerhead for flow

i dont have sand i have crushed coral

i dont clean my crushed coral

i do water changes every few days well sorta i always keep refilling my tank with fresh new water every other day

average temp is 77.7 F°

i am battleinh green algea but that is dieing off now i feed my fish twice a day with 2 small cubes of brine shrimp

(it seems like alot but my fish eat alot and sually my shrimp dont get any if i put less

i have a really good heater (dont remember the brand name all i remember i it starts with an e)

Okay you are not going to like this but...

 

You are adding fish way too fast, that is 10 fish in 3.5 months with another in QT and multiple pairs of clownfish will likely eventually kill each other in a tank so small. Every-time you add a fish, the tank needs time to properly adjust to the fish load. It is best to wait several weeks between each fish and then only add more if the tank is running well. Exceptions are when fish need to be added in pairs/groups but you still want to wait between. 

 

Tap water is usually full of crap that promotes algae growth, 99% of us use RODI or distilled water. 

 

Crushed coral traps debris, I bet if you siphoned it, you would find a lot of nasty stuff. I would slowly remove it and replace it with sand so your diamond goby can clean it for you. I stirr/siphon mine but the goby might do the work for you. 

 

Refilling with fresh water (evaporation) is not a water change, as you are not removing fish poop/debris. You need to change the water weekly or monthly depending on filtration with a GOOD source of water (RODI or Distilled mixed to correct salinity/temp). Then you need to top off with RODI/Distilled.

 

Even if you defeat one type of algae, another will spring up and take its place and you will be in a never ending battle until changes are made.

 

What is in the mechanical filter? What type of filter? Aquaclear? Biowheel? Many things used in freshwater tanks in those filters are not appropriate for salt water. 

 

If you want this tank to function properly, a lot of changes need to be made. People use tap and such in the fresh water world but the salty side is a different beast. 

 

The tank is savable with changes and many of us make these mistakes starting out. 

 

I must say I am impressed you have a QT tank though, many people don't and it bites them in the butt. 

 

 

 

[CoralStorm]

i have been aware of my tap water and am soon moving to rodi water just at the moment my budget towards fishkeeping is very limited  due to out of hobby problems i am also planning a much more planned out aquarium for those fish once i have the budget i will be setting up a new 300 gallon with everything calcium reactors sumps you name it

 

my fish just to correct confusion were confusing but i have only 3 clowns which i had one small one who was established then added a pair which stay on their end of the tank and they dont bother eachother i only have 3 clowns just to clarify my one in qt is one that i included on the stock list sorry if that confused you

 

thanks for the help anyway i have a diamond sleeped goby which sifts all the crushed coral anyway so debris is usually taken care of the fish had death from aggression was tje only possible thing cayse it was the next day i do waterchanges of 20 percent every 2 weeks

[mcarroll]

4 hours ago, CoralStorm said:

nitrate 0.25 ppm

That's essentially zero - not the best for your corals or algae.

 

Can you get a test done for phosphates?  If it's zero-ish too then you'll want to know. 

 

Healthy algae and corals both need access to SOME dissolved nutrients or things go south.  Corals get unhealthy or die, and it's typical to end up with a nasty algae like dinoflagellates under these conditions....they don't require dissolved nutrients since they have the option of eating things like bacteria.  Dino's also have high chances of being toxic.

 

All just to say get your phosphates checked so you know.  Don't get surprised.

 

4 hours ago, CoralStorm said:

i have 1 tomato clown in quarantene for ick

Did he go into the QT directly from the store, or was he in the tank before getting moved to QT?

 

4 hours ago, CoralStorm said:

1 diamond sleeper goby

a pair of saddleback clowns

a yellowtail damsel

6 blue-green chromis

30 blue legged hermits

5 red legged hermits

2 emerald crabs

1 pacific cleaner shrimp

1 fire shrimp

1 tomato clown

some coral frags and an anemone

 

12 fish.   That's a lot for this tank by any measure. 

 

Definitely stop collecting fish until your next tank is actually up and running and after it has matured a bit.   It's almost always a bad idea to buy today for the tank you "may" set up "tomorrow".   Especially when it comes to livestock.

 

I would unload as many fish as you can stand to see go.

 

The clowns would be a nice complement to the tank all by themselves if you could let the rest go.

 

The Cromis would even fight to the death in your next tank, so expect them to be reduced to 0 or 1 whether you intervene or not.  I would try to find someone with a bigger tank while you still have the whole set.

 

The Sleeper Goby is borderline....he'll starve if all he's getting is scraps from your sand bed as he's really too big for the tank.  But if you give up the cleaning function and be sure to feed him along with the rest of your fish he will probably do well enough.

 

The Yellowtail would be OK to keep if you get rid of the other fish, maybe including the clowns.  Yellowtails and Azure's are by far two of the nicest damsels out there.

 

Cleaner wrasses rarely survive long...almost considered disposable.  If/when he goes south, just don't replace him.

 

That's also A LOT of hermit crabs.  A LOT A LOT.  Did these come when the tank was set up, or were they added as a response to the algae growth?   I'd look at them a potential suspect in the murder of your blenny.  IMO thin out your hermits by about 80% and replace them with snails.   Replace hermits 1 : 1 with snails if you really think you need that many, but consider replacing each 5 hermits you remove with just 1-3 snails and then adding more snails later if needed.

 

 

4 hours ago, CoralStorm said:

tank size-55 gal

tank age - 3 and a half months

water is decholirinated tap water

i use a 75 gallon mechanical filter

50 gallon fluval powerhead for flow

 

3 months is still brand new.  It would be ideal for it to still have mostly no large animals in it.

 

Any chance you've forgotten to dechlorinate?   I know you mentioned that you would be switching to RODI.   Does your local store sell RODI water?  (Most do.)  I'd buy water from them if at all possible.  Depending how easy you find that to me you might be able to put off buying an RODI system until your next tank.  (It's definitely cheaper in the long run - ie. per gallon - to run your own RODI system.  Consider buying one used or a refurb from Spectrapure if the up front cost is the big problem.)

 

Mecahnical filters are fine to use, but they need to be kept clean when used on a reef tank.   This is in contrast to how they're used on freshwater where they're often just cleaned once a month or a couple times a year.  That kind of maintenance routine will generate an algae problem in a reef tank.  So clean as often as necessary to keep filters clean.

 

I doubt one "50 gallon" power head is doing much for water flow in that large of a tank.  You need the flow to be able to move and lift waste from the sand bed up to the corals/fish/mechanical filters.  Corals need the flow to be strong enough to get things to and from them through their boundary layer.  (More info.)   A pair of Tunze 6045's would be my pick for this tank.  $78/ea, which is a bargain vs competitive pumps.  They could be purchased used to save more $.   They could also be purchased and added one at a time to defray costs over more time.  At the very minimum I would suggest adding another pump like the one you have to the opposite wall of the tank.

 

 

 

4 hours ago, CoralStorm said:

i am battleinh green algea but that is dieing off now

Do you know what caused the bloom?  Did it start when the fish were added?

 

Why is it dying off now?

 

What's your best guess for explaining the brownish water?   When did it seem to show up?  Does it vary at all from first thing in the morning vs last thing before lights-out?

 

Speaking of that, what lights are you running?  (watts and brand if possible)

[CoralStorm]

all my fish are under 5 inches my lfs does sell it for 40 dollars for 4 gallons of premixed rofi saltwater which to me is bullcrap the cloudyness is like dirt i have photos above of it

[dandelion]

20 minutes ago, CoralStorm said:

all my fish are under 5 inches my lfs does sell it for 40 dollars for 4 gallons of premixed rofi saltwater which to me is bullcrap the cloudyness is like dirt i have photos above of it

Buy bottles of distilled water from your local grocer. Just over a dollar a gallon here. 

[CoralStorm]

2 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Cleaner wrasses rarely survive long...almost considered disposable. 

my cleaner is probobly the weirdest in existance then since it has been feeding off algae and even my brine shrimp i feed them

 

 

2 hours ago, mcarroll said:

The clowns would be a nice complement to the tank all by themselves if you could let the rest go.

 

The Cromis would even fight to the death in your next tank, so expect them to be reduced to 0 or 1 whether you intervene or not.  I would try to find someone with a bigger tank while you still have the whole set.

 

The Sleeper Goby is borderline....he'll starve if all he's getting is scraps from your sand bed as he's really too big for the tank.  But if you give up the cleaning function and be sure to feed him along with the rest of your fish he will probably do well enough.

 

That's also A LOT of hermit crabs.  A LOT A LOT.  Did these come when the tank was set up, or were they added as a response to the algae growth?   I'd look at them a potential suspect in the murder of your blenny.  IMO thin out your hermits by about 80% and replace them with snails.   Replace hermits 1 : 1 with snails if you really think you need that many, but consider replacing each 5 hermits you remove with just 1-3 snails and then adding more snails later if needed.

 

Any chance you've forgotten to dechlorinate?   I know you mentioned that you would be switching to RODI.   Does your local store sell RODI water?  (Most do.)  I'd buy water from them if at all possible.  Depending how easy you find that to me you might be able to put off buying an RODI system until your next tank.  (It's definitely cheaper in the long run - ie. per gallon - to run your own RODI system.  Consider buying one used or a refurb from Spectrapure if the up front cost is the big problem.)

 

Mecahnical filters are fine to use, but they need to be kept clean when used on a reef tank.   This is in contrast to how they're used on freshwater where they're often just cleaned once a month or a couple times a year.  That kind of maintenance routine will generate an algae problem in a reef tank.  So clean as often as necessary to keep filters clean.

 

I doubt one "50 gallon" power head is doing much for water flow in that large of a tank.  You need the flow to be able to move and lift waste from the sand bed up to the corals/fish/mechanical filters.  Corals need the flow to be strong enough to get things to and from them through their boundary layer.  (More info.)   A pair of Tunze 6045's would be my pick for this tank.  $78/ea, which is a bargain vs competitive pumps.  They could be purchased used to save more $.   They could also be purchased and added one at a time to defray costs over more time.  At the very minimum I would suggest adding another pump like the one you have to the opposite wall of the tank.

 

 

 

Do you know what caused the bloom?  Did it start when the fish were added?

my algae started when diatoms came in after a months cycle which is normal and then about a week later green algae popped up an spread like wildfire its dieing now because of my hermits and cleanup crew and scrubbing the windows clean

 

also another side note i am not sure but i think my saddleback clown pair is spawning the male is showing aggression if a fish approachs the femal and the female is slightly bloated and staying in the same spot it only hangs around a small corner of the tank

 

lights are not permenent im exganging for 2 t5s and an led strip right now i have 2 200 watt alogens

 

and my blenny could not have been attacked by almost baby hermit crabs the blenny was like 10 times their size

[CoralStorm]

can get a gallon for 3 dollars multiply that times 55 that adds up really quickly

[dandelion]

4 minutes ago, CoralStorm said:

can get a gallon for 3 dollars multiply that times 55 that adds up really quickly

Wow distilled water sure is expensive in your area. But then this is an expensive hobby. Like everyone else said you added too many fish too fast, and ro/di or distilled water is almost a requirement. My tap water measuresabout 100ppm. My ro/di unit was damaged once and I used the water that measured 10ppm for top off and water change and I had algae outbreak.its not hard to imagine how 10x that would be how bad. 

[CoralStorm]

my tap water is usually very low at sometimes when i treat it gets at 0.10 ppm i usually dont treat my water i just did it once and yeah ot was a too long process that i can only do on the weekend and lately have been buay on weekends now so yeah thats a problem

[patback]

57 minutes ago, CoralStorm said:

my tap water is usually very low at sometimes when i treat it gets at 0.10 ppm i usually dont treat my water i just did it once and yeah ot was a too long process that i can only do on the weekend and lately have been buay on weekends now so yeah thats a problem

What are you measuring at .1?  No hobby grade TDs meter that I'm aware of goes that low and tap water is never that pure.  You also wouldnt be getting an accurate reading with nitrates at that level, and phosphates at .1 is pretty much a death sentence. 

[CoralStorm]

im talking abou ammonia in the tap water

[specore]

I'm pretty confident the tap water is your issue.  And adding a tomato clown with a pair of saddleback clowns is a terrible idea.  

[mcarroll]

11 hours ago, CoralStorm said:

all my fish are under 5 inches my lfs does sell it for 40 dollars for 4 gallons of premixed rofi saltwater which to me is bullcrap the cloudyness is like dirt i have photos above of it

 

I could be wrong but that odd-size (4 gal) sounds like pre-bottled seawater, not RODI water.  (It's not a terrible deal for what it is, but it's not what you're looking for.)

 

RODI water should be no more than a dollar a gallon, but most places seem to sell it a lot cheaper than that.

11 hours ago, CoralStorm said:

my cleaner is probobly the weirdest in existance then since it has been feeding off algae and even my brine shrimp i feed them

 

I hope I'm wrong and he lives forever, but even when they seem to be eating they don't usually last.  I'll be happy to be wrong when we're still having this conversation about him years from now.  :)

 

11 hours ago, CoralStorm said:

lights are not permenent im exganging for 2 t5s and an led strip right now i have 2 200 watt alogens

Halogens may be the cause of the extra-yellow/borwnish look for the water since the light they put off is VERY yellow.  At theh very least they are accentuating whatever color IS in the water, which may be perfectly normal.

 

Corals will not be happy under them due to lack of blue spectrum, but algae WILL be happy.  Plus 400 watts is probably too bright even if the spectrum was better....can you light the tank with just one instead of two until you can switch to something more reefy?

 

Do you have the T5's on hand or do they still have to be purchased?   (How much are you thinking of spending?)

 

FWIW a Current USA Model #4226 Orbit IC would be a good strip-LED replacement for your tank.  Some places have them on sale for <$200 now, regularly they're close to $300.  (Shopping used is SMART if budget is an issue.  Another point to consider is that T5's are expensive to run in the long-run too since the bulbs wear out at least once a year.  In contrast, LED's don't cost anything more once you have them.  Chances are they'll last longer than your reef.)

 

 

[mcarroll]

12 hours ago, CoralStorm said:

all my fish are under 5 inches

I assume this was regarding the comments about age of tank and number of fish?

 

Unfortunately adult length of fish isn't a very good guideline on how and when to add fish you a tank.  It's one data point.

 

The most important factor for you is the immaturity of the tank. 

 

Second is the inter- and intra-compatibility of your fish with each other. 

 

That they may ultimately "get too big for their tank" is also a factor, but it's a distant one and therefor less immediate in concern.

 

Something Else

Another side effect of having so many fish in a small  tank is that sleeping spaces become limited.   

 

Fish are smart and try to hide while sleeping.  If the can't hide far away from the opportunists in the tank, the opportunists can be counted on to be opportunists.   With this in mind I should also have levels suspicions at all your crabs not just the hermits.  Emerald crabs are just as opportunistic as any other crab.

 

Another factor is non-opportunists like the other fish in the tank....they will fight for these territories, including sleeping spaces, if space is short.

 

All of this amounts for a continuous, if low-grade, stress on the fish that can't find a safe spot, so it becomes a bigger problem as time goes on.

[specore]

19 hours ago, CoralStorm said:

 

water is decholirinated tap water

i use a 75 gallon mechanical filter

50 gallon fluval powerhead for flow

i dont have sand i have crushed coral

i dont clean my crushed coral

i do water changes every few days well sorta i always keep refilling my tank with fresh new water every other day

average temp is 77.7 F°

i am battleinh green algea but that is dieing off now i feed my fish twice a day with 2 small cubes of brine shrimp

(it seems like alot but my fish eat alot and sually my shrimp dont get any if i put less

i have a really good heater (dont remember the brand name all i remember i it starts with an e)

Just now re read this post and have some thoughts

 

water is decholirinated tap water

Serious issue and tank will never look good until you go to distilled or RO/DI

 

50 gallon fluval powerhead for flow

You have little to no flow, which is probably also contributing to the tank looking like stagnant pond water

 

i dont have sand i have crushed coral

i dont clean my crushed coral

Fine I guess, although I'm not sure if it has the buffering property aragonite has.  Should definitely be vacuumed though, as the goby is looking for and eating micro fauna rather than detritus

 

i do water changes every few days well sorta i always keep refilling my tank with fresh new water every other day

that's topping off, and is not even close to "sorta" changing water.  Since you are using tap water you are actually increasing undesirable trace elements and minerals, whereas a water change will (very slightly) decrease these same undesirables. 

 

i am battleinh green algea but that is dieing off now i feed my fish twice a day with 2 small cubes of brine shrimp

(it seems like alot but my fish eat alot and sually my shrimp dont get any if i put less

Brine shrimp is junk, has little nutritional value and is messy.  You'd be better off feeding a quality pellet or flake food. And your shrimp will be just fine, don't worry about them getting food.  

 

 

i have a really good heater (dont remember the brand name all i remember i it starts with an e)

 

 

[CoralStorm]

7 hours ago, mcarroll said:

 

I could be wrong but that odd-size (4 gal) sounds like pre-bottled seawater, not RODI water.  (It's not a terrible deal for what it is, but it's not what you're looking for.)

 

RODI water should be no more than a dollar a gallon, but most places seem to sell it a lot cheaper than that.

 

I hope I'm wrong and he lives forever, but even when they seem to be eating they don't usually last.  I'll be happy to be wrong when we're still having this conversation about him years from now.  🙂

 

Halogens may be the cause of the extra-yellow/borwnish look for the water since the light they put off is VERY yellow.  At theh very least they are accentuating whatever color IS in the water, which may be perfectly normal.

 

Corals will not be happy under them due to lack of blue spectrum, but algae WILL be happy.  Plus 400 watts is probably too bright even if the spectrum was better....can you light the tank with just one instead of two until you can switch to something more reefy?

 

Do you have the T5's on hand or do they still have to be purchased?   (How much are you thinking of spending?)

 

FWIW a Current USA Model #4226 Orbit IC would be a good strip-LED replacement for your tank.  Some places have them on sale for <$200 now, regularly they're close to $300.  (Shopping used is SMART if budget is an issue.  Another point to consider is that T5's are expensive to run in the long-run too since the bulbs wear out at least once a year.  In contrast, LED's don't cost anything more once you have them.  Chances are they'll last longer than your reef.)

 

 

i jave blue leds with them

[CoralStorm]

7 hours ago, mcarroll said:

I assume this was regarding the comments about age of tank and number of fish?

 

Unfortunately adult length of fish isn't a very good guideline on how and when to add fish you a tank.  It's one data point.

 

The most important factor for you is the immaturity of the tank. 

 

Second is the inter- and intra-compatibility of your fish with each other. 

 

That they may ultimately "get too big for their tank" is also a factor, but it's a distant one and therefor less immediate in concern.

 

Something Else

Another side effect of having so many fish in a small  tank is that sleeping spaces become limited.   

 

Fish are smart and try to hide while sleeping.  If the can't hide far away from the opportunists in the tank, the opportunists can be counted on to be opportunists.   With this in mind I should also have levels suspicions at all your crabs not just the hermits.  Emerald crabs are just as opportunistic as any other crab.

 

Another factor is non-opportunists like the other fish in the tank....they will fight for these territories, including sleeping spaces, if space is short.

 

All of this amounts for a continuous, if low-grade, stress on the fish that can't find a safe spot, so it becomes a bigger problem as time goes on.

my fish are all working together my only issue is a suddenly aggesuve male clown cause they might be spawning which i assume is normal? and usually the fish put up with it

[mcarroll]

13 minutes ago, CoralStorm said:

my fish are all working together my only issue is a suddenly aggesuve male clown cause they might be spawning which i assume is normal? and usually the fish put up with it

After the lights out is a different environment for your fish than daytime.   Most of us asume the tank just sleeps and don't spend any appreciable time watching the tank after lights-out.

 

After lights-out can be one of the most dangerous times for a fish – even if they seem to be working together during the day.

 

Not to understate the potential of your clown situation....all stresses are cumulative.