New law on fish medication

[Humblefish]

On 6/30/2019 at 6:40 AM, Mark2442 said:

This is pathetic, I have had my tank running for 20 years, I have saved many of my fish from disease and death from medications. I have a silver dollar that’s been with me for 15 years and he needs antibiotics which I now can’t get from the store. I’ve called 5 and all but one said they can’t prescribe meds for fish since they have no experience with fish. One vet said I have to bring the fish in and they weren’t in for a few days. So my 15 year old fish has to die a slow deaths because of the Canadian government... losers

We're living in a world gone mad. There has to be regulations but also common sense applied. Did the Canadian government ever provide a clear explanation for the ban?

[Clown79]

2 hours ago, Humblefish said:

We're living in a world gone mad. There has to be regulations but also common sense applied. Did the Canadian government ever provide a clear explanation for the ban?

Yes they did.

 

It is for the protection of animals and humans.

 

People medicating without having the proper credentials to diagnose and treat leads to over use of meds and a slew of issues.

 

https://www.cahi-icsa.ca/news/effective-december-1--2018-a-veterinary-prescription-will-be-needed-to-use--medically-important-antibiotics-in-animals

[Humblefish]

12 hours ago, Clown79 said:

Yes they did.

 

It is for the protection of animals and humans.

 

People medicating without having the proper credentials to diagnose and treat leads to over use of meds and a slew of issues.

 

https://www.cahi-icsa.ca/news/effective-december-1--2018-a-veterinary-prescription-will-be-needed-to-use--medically-important-antibiotics-in-animals

This deals with ABX, but what about the copper ban?

 

I guess the day all this happens in the US will be my cue to exit the hobby.

[Clown79]

47 minutes ago, Humblefish said:

This deals with ABX, but what about the copper ban?

 

I guess the day all this happens in the US will be my cue to exit the hobby.

Couldn't tell you about the copper, probably because it's a medication.

 

It's very limiting. The cost of a Vet visit is a lot and most don't deal with fish.

 

You can't get pure ammonia here and good luck trying to dose nitrates.

[NaturallyKait]

This reminds me I need to see if any of the local vets here will help with fish. I already know our usual vet that sees our cat doesn’t. I wonder if I may have luck with the veterinary school here, they do have clinics and see animals, if nothing else they may use it as a teaching opportunity. If they don’t I’m betting none of the vets will. 

 

Thanks to the med ban I’ve seen a few stores beef up their quarantine processes. Building bigger, better QT systems and keeping fish longer in hopes of making sure the fish that make it to sale are healthier. It’s been really frustrating for them too, they’re losing money on fish who die in QT that would have been able to be treated with access to meds. 

[Reefkid88]

Wow,this is insane and incredibly stupid.. 

 

 

[Melfy77]

Yup I watched my previous tank being wiped out by a ich/velvet combo...no copper. I fear everytime I buy a new fish. And really sometimes it makes QT a little useless. If the fish has ich then you can try ttm or hypo, but anything else and you're basically watching your fish die. Only good thing is at least you're just killing one fish (because that's how I felt...a fish killer 😕 )

[Clown79]

It's awful because there is unnecessary loss of life that otherwise could be saved.

[Humblefish]

History just keeps repeating itself... A little bit of governing is fine, but once it gets too big it just gets in everybody's way.

[Melfy77]

The majority is paying for a minority who didn't know better...and pretty sure didn't have reef tanks lol 

[Tamberav]

My vet told me he has never treated fish but if I brought in literature and the fish he would research it to prescribe the meds I was asking for. I bring my cats to him so we already have an established relationship which helps.

 

 

 

[Melfy77]

Speaking of the devil...my wrasse is showing signs of velvet!!! Are you f*ing kidding me?!!!! I added a fang blenny that has been at my LFS Qt for weeks!! Shows no sign of disease...I swear when they die I am buying corals and then nothing for 3 months!!! And then I'm getting a freaking pair of sterile captive bred clownfish and that's it! I am done with this nonsense!!! I am soooooo mad!!!!!

[NaturallyKait]

I actually just got back from the LFS and the employee there told me she called every single vet on our island to see if anyone would consider prescribing for fish and no one would. Even the vet school. They just lost a gorgeous porcupine puffer last week because they couldn’t get the meds to treat him. Such a shame, we saw it last weekend and it was swimming happily. The owner was going to make it the centrepiece of their upcoming display tank. 

[Matteo]

Poor Canadians. Fish lives matter. 

[Tamberav]

I have never had velvet/ich/brook in my DT that I am aware of. I QT all my fish for several weeks but do not treat them with anything but prazipro although I do have all meds on hand. I just observe.

 

I have had brook/velvet/unknown crazy crap in the QT but the fish died quickly. 

 

I would suggest Canadians QT everything for several weeks and get them eating a wide variety of frozen foods with selcon to try and boost the fishes own immunity and observe before it goes into your DT. Also choose fish that are disease resistant. 

 

This has been working for me for 10 years now and while no guarantee it certainly has saved my DT from wipes outs. I once bought a $7 damsel that looked great and fiesty and eating, put it in QT and by the next day the fish looked like it was melting, it was dead by that night. That fish never made it to my DT. I don't trust fish just because its been at the LFS. 

 

This is my 'conditioning tank' (I also have a hospital tank with PVC but if you have no meds to treat with there is not much point). I use it as a low stress safe away from my other fish to adapt to life and fatten up. When I move the fish to the DT, they are typically out and eating that same day. They don't seem to take as long to adapt then if they were directly from the LFS. 

 

The big thing using this tank is I can FEED FEED FEED and not care about water quality which gives the fish a great start. They also don't need to complete with established fish. 

 

 

 

[Humblefish]

I recommend Canadians black molly QT: https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/406744-black-molly-quarantine/

 

The molly should "hit" before you put an infected fish in your DT.

 

 

 

[Clown79]

If you are any where near Cambridge Ontario, there is a Vet that does treat fish. 

[Tamberav]

I have seen that molly thing before and thought about it but personally I don't want mollies in my nano, they grow pretty large and I can't just toss them out 😞 I suppose the best way to save a 'test molly' is to put it back into total FW since no meds to save it with?

 

I asked some people who keep mollies in their DT because they want them and they said they are pretty hardy and resistant to disease even coming from FW so not sure what to think about that. 

 

 

[Humblefish]

12 hours ago, Tamberav said:

I have seen that molly thing before and thought about it but personally I don't want mollies in my nano, they grow pretty large and I can't just toss them out 😞 I suppose the best way to save a 'test molly' is to put it back into total FW since no meds to save it with?

 

I asked some people who keep mollies in their DT because they want them and they said they are pretty hardy and resistant to disease even coming from FW so not sure what to think about that. 

If a molly shows signs of ich, velvet, etc. then you can quickly convert the fish back to freshwater within a few hours to save him/her. Or the molly can go for a copper ride along with the rest of the fish you are needing to treat. However, once a molly has been exposed to a saltwater pathogen I no longer consider that fish suitable for testing purposes since it's immune system now has familiarity.

 

There has been less research done on a molly's resistance to velvet, but in this study a stable infection of Marine Ich was maintained for 2 years by using black mollies: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/250020176_Laboratory_Propagation_of_Cryptocaryon_irritans_on_a_Saltwater-Adapted_Poecilia_Hybrid_the_Black_Molly

[fish9]

There is so much wrong with the answers on here... So you think Canadians can keep fish without meds Eh!? 

 

90% of fish are trans-shipped in to canada. Having run one of the only shops in Canada that brings in and pays well for localy bred stock, I know there is no chance of us getting everything local. Local bulk vendors?: all tranship their stock. So there is no such thing as avoiding stress. Most of the fish you have kept were treated with dewormers and antibiotics upon arrival in to the country. In order to survive the trip, they were all (yes, every single one of them) prophylactically treated before they left and in their travel bags, in order to make it here. Hence, we will not see less resistant strains. It sucks that this is true, but it is an unavoidable fact of the industry. 

 

As for the simple matter of being a responsible pet owner: You should always be prepared for the worst. Ich lives in the gills of every fish on earth. Many other diseases can show up in perfectly healthy tanks, or be brought in with what looks like a perfectly healthy fish. If you can not prepare for/cure illness; you should not keep a given pet at all. With a "just don't use meds" mentality this wonderful hobby that has saved fish that would otherwise be extinct (zebra plecos, all lake victoria's cichlids, etc) would break down and be no more. 

 

If I believed for a second that this was about our health, i might support it. It is however all too apparent that this is a money grab by the veterinary society of Canada, and a lazy move by our government. The vast majority of antibiotics are used and dumped by the farming industry. Sell small containers and a higher price = problem solved. Meds should have been regulated, not banned.... but that would have taken some actual work instead of a lazy ban slapped over the issue. 

 

add: No LFS treats with copper... thats just a dumb comment. Most of them sell live neo. and Caridina shrimp now. Copper would kill everything.