Dosing, I've not done this before. Help a noob?

[Frag Factory]

Hey all,

 

Just managed to grab some calcium and magnesium test kits and thought it's about time I get on top of that. SPS and LPS have been growing, and in a 9G system there isn't much for them to take out before it's an issue. Up to now I've been doing water changes (25% weekly) but when I checked my KH 10 days ago it was down to 6!

 

Fresh salt values (Redsea coral pro):

KH: 11.5

Calcium: 450ppm

Magnesium: 1350ppm

 

My values as of 7 days ago:

KH: 6

Calcium: 380ppm

Magnesium: 1200

 

Since then I've been adding kalkwasser to my ATO (and a big water change), it seems to have helped. 

KH: 7.5

Calcium: 410ppm

Magnesium: 1180ppm

 

Obviously Kalk doesn't help with magnesium, so I'm going to switch tactics. I went to the LFS today on the way back from a meeting and picked up Reeflowers KH buffer, magnesium and calcium. I think this is a standard 2 part mix (+ Mg) chemical wise.

 

While I get my head around it I'll be manually dosing, I probably won't get a doser for a while to be honest. I can't see where I could put it... I manually feed corals anyway, it's not a problem adding 30 seconds more of dosing to my day.

 

So, I'm just posting this to sanity check what I am supposed to do. This is my plan:

1. Slowly bring up my tank parameters over the next few days to optimum levels (I'm going for KH: 9, Ca: 450ppm, Mg: 1350).

2. When I hit these numbers I will stop dosing for 5 days, do a standard water change and then test things again.

3. This should give me 5 days worth of what my tank uses, divide by 5 to get daily requirements.

4. Mix chemicals and work out daily amounts to dose.

5. Bring levels back up to optimum levels and then begin daily dosing

6. Periodically test and adjust levels to suit needs of new corals and bigger corals

 

Before I start pouring relatively cheap chemicals into my glass box of expensive pretty things, does this sound like I fully understand the process here?

 

Thanks!

 

[Andreww]

You’re mostly on your way. I say mostly because it seems to me like you’re over complicating things. 

 

If you want a 9dKh then get a salt that has 9dKh out of the box.

Dont dose then stop for 5 days.

Start with a smaller dose and test every 2 days or so. If the level drops add half a ml to your dose. If it rises, cut half a ml.

 

When it’s stable , you’ve got the right amount. I doubt you have to do larger doses than half a ml or 1 ml until you hit the right level in your 9 gallon tank.

 

You’ll probably have to adjust down the road when corals grow more etc

[MrObscura]

As long as you do weekly water changes with a quality salt you don't have to worry about Mag, or anything other than alk/cal. 

 

Just chose a salt with levels you like and do weekly waterchanges while maintaing those level which you should probably be able to do with just kalk in you ato. 

[Andreww]

7 minutes ago, MrObscura said:

As long as you do weekly water changes with a quality salt you don't have to worry about Mag, or anything other than alk/cal. 

 

Just chose a salt with levels you like and do weekly waterchanges while maintaing those level which you should probably be able to do with just kalk in you ato. 

Each tank is different.

If your Mag level drop you better keep an eye on it because it will affect everything in your tank.

 

Some people have always had good magnesium levels just with water changes. Me, not so much. Some corals use up way more Magnesium than others.Coraline algae will use up Magnesium as well.

 

I have to dose Magnesium in my tank otherwise it drops significantly and my salt is not low in Magnesium by any means.

 

Check out this article to better understand Magnesium.

https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/10/chemistry

[MrObscura]

True, but based on what I've come across it's very rare that decent size weekly waterchanges don't take care of Mag. 

 

 

[Frag Factory]

Hey guys,

 

Thanks for the feedback but I already am using a quality salt with the parameters of what I want and doing large 25% water changes every week. Corals and inverts are outstripping the supply of calcium, magnesium and alk.

 

10 minutes ago, Andreww said:

If you want a 9dKh then get a salt that has 9dKh out of the box

I've got 30kg of red sea coral pro to go through (11KH)....

 

11 minutes ago, Andreww said:

Dont dose then stop for 5 days.

Start with a smaller dose and test every 2 days or so. If the level drops add half a ml to your dose. If it rises, cut half a ml.

That makes sense and works also. I was hoping for something more scientific than trial and error though.

 

11 minutes ago, MrObscura said:

As long as you do weekly water changes with a quality salt you don't have to worry about Mag, or anything other than alk/cal. 

 

Just chose a salt with levels you like and do weekly waterchanges while maintaing those level which you should probably be able to do with just kalk in you ato. 

I tried that as the OP says, it does not meet the demand of my tank and I don't want to change more water than I already am doing as my nitrates are too low.

[Frag Factory]

4 minutes ago, MrObscura said:

True, but based on what I've come across it's very rare that decent size weekly waterchanges don't take care of Mag. 

 

 

Fresh salt = 1350ppm, current tank levels are 1180ppm

 

I do 2.5 gallon water change on an 8 gallon tank every week without fail, sometimes twice if I've been feeding heavily.

 

It's not working for me, hence dosing.

[Andreww]

4 minutes ago, MrObscura said:

True, but based on what I've come across it's very rare that decent size weekly waterchanges don't take care of Mag. 

 

 

I agree with you. Most people don’t have a problem with Magnesium.

 

[Andreww]

OP, you might want to raise your ALK level to 11dKh then and keep it there.

 

Id change 1 gallon every week to avoid any Alk spikes and feed less if you have problems with high nutrients.

 

Theres nothing scientific about dosing the tank unless you wanna make it that way.

Yes you have to play with the 2 part until you get the levels dialed in. 

 

What kind of corals do you have in your tank?

[Clown79]

I would do a few smaller 10-15% water changes to naturally increase your alk to the salts levels.

 

Once it's up to the salts levels I would test alk every day for a full week to see how much I'd being consumed.

 

Then you can start properly dosing daily.

 

True 2 part buffers are dosed in equal parts. Like ESV bionic. You dose according to alk's needs. So if you need to dose 3ml alk buffer, you dose 3ml of ca too. 

 

I wouldn't worry about mag unless its low. Then it causes an imbalance in alk and ca

 

[Tamberav]

I see what you are trying to do by counting your salt as part of your dosing by testing AFTER the wc then dividing. I think the only iffy thing about the plan is the tank will swing, slowly over 5 days but its a swing non-the-less. Not sure how corals will react though I know some people do it this way. I think it just depends how low your tank actually gets in those 5 days. If you went from say 9 to say 5.5 I would think the corals would be stressed.

 

I would not raise the tank to 11 btw since you say your nitrates are low, may cause some burn.

 

 

[Andreww]

7 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

I see what you are trying to do by counting your salt as part of your dosing by testing AFTER the wc then dividing. I think the only iffy thing about the plan is the tank will swing, slowly over 5 days but its a swing non-the-less. Not sure how corals will react though I know some people do it this way. 

 

I would not raise the tank to 11 btw since you say your nitrates are low, may cause some burn.

 

 

I agree , the higher the ALK the higher the nutrients should be . 

[Frag Factory]

1 minute ago, Tamberav said:

I see what you are trying to do by counting your salt as part of your dosing by testing AFTER the wc then dividing. I think the only iffy thing about the plan is the tank will swing, slowly over 5 days but its a swing non-the-less. Not sure how corals will react though I know some people do it this way. 

 

I would not raise the tank to 11 btw since you say your nitrates are low, may cause some burn.

 

 

Yup I agree completely, 11 is too high but I have to factor in Alk will rise when I do a WC also.

 

I could go to doing 0.5g water changes every 2 days. That would take minutes to complete and lower the swing.

 

9 hours ago, Clown79 said:

I would do a few smaller 10-15% water changes to naturally increase your alk to the salts levels.

 

Once it's up to the salts levels I would test alk every day for a full week to see how much I'd being consumed.

 

Then you can start properly dosing daily.

 

True 2 part buffers are dosed in equal parts. Like ESV bionic. You dose according to alk's needs. So if you need to dose 3ml alk buffer, you dose 3ml of ca too. 

 

I wouldn't worry about mag unless its low. Then it causes an imbalance in alk and ca

 

 

The aquaforest stuff I have suggests to mix Mg and Ca together and dose as one solution. I'm not sure if it is "true" two part or not, but it seems similar.

 

I was only concerned about Mg as it was low (1180ppm), my fresh salt tested at 1340ppm so water changes were clearly not keeping up.

 

22 hours ago, Andreww said:

OP, you might want to raise your ALK level to 11dKh then and keep it there.

 

Id change 1 gallon every week to avoid any Alk spikes and feed less if you have problems with high nutrients.

 

Theres nothing scientific about dosing the tank unless you wanna make it that way.

Yes you have to play with the 2 part until you get the levels dialed in. 

 

What kind of corals do you have in your tank?

11 seems too high, I suffer low nutrients. If I increase the alk by too much my SPS will grow skeleton faster than it can grow flesh and that causes issues.

 

I've been changing 2-3 gallon weekly with no issues.

 

I keep SPS/LPS and a handful of zoas/softies. I'm seeing great growth from everything (probably due to heavy feeding). My filtration seems to be super efficient and is causing super low nitrates considering how much I feed.

 

I don't want to drop feeding levels, I could do smaller water changes but if this is the route I take then I need to dose more.

 

Thank you all for the help.

 

I've been doing more tests, alk seemed to not drop overnight, calcium actually increased slightly but not enough to suggest it wasn't the test kit (5-10ppm).

 

I think Kalkwasser might be holding Alk and Calcium level.

 

If this is the case can I just dose the magnesium from to keep levels up for now?

 

Kalk scares me slightly, seems to be a lack of control when it's just in my ATO water...