paulsz Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Hi all, I have been battling what looks like cyano. It's been always there but in the last month or so has really gotten heavy. My tank has been up for about 11 months now and this stuff is everywhere. The glass, the overflow pane, the sand, rocks and some snail shells. I used chemiclean over the weekend and did my 20% wc last night after the full 48 hours. It did not clear up much. So during last night's wc, I siphoned what I could. It was almost stuck to the substrate and so it didn't really come off. The substrate had just turned over and so it looked white (and the cyano now under the substrate). Today I come home from work and the tank is full of it again (see pics). I Ian't tell whether it is in fact cyano or spirulina (or maybe Dinos). I put some in a cup last night with some tank water and 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide to see if it turns pink and it doesn't look like it has turned pink. Any help would be appreciated. I didn't remove this stuff before doing my chemiclean treatment and so I may redo this week but siphon everything I can beforehand Quote Link to comment
specore Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Looks like cyano to me. I would suggest limited feedings, being very careful not to feed more than your fish will consume, along with frequent water changes and daily turkey baster blasting. Quote Link to comment
paulsz Posted November 6, 2018 Author Share Posted November 6, 2018 32 minutes ago, specore said: Looks like cyano to me. I would suggest limited feedings, being very careful not to feed more than your fish will consume, along with frequent water changes and daily turkey baster blasting. Okay and would I have to have a filter sock/floss in the sump to catch it all? I've been running my skimmer only for the last few months back Quote Link to comment
Clown79 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Here come a lot of questions. Lol. Sorry, it's really to try to get an idea of what's going on and how to attack the situation. 1.What size tank and livestock in it 2. What water are you using, purchased at lfs, distilled, or rodi from home 3. Filtration media- what is used and how often is it maintained. 4. Do you vacuum your sand/blast rocks with every water change? 5. What do you feed, do you dose anything? For right now, you can in between waterchanges suck up the cyano with a Turkey baster During waterchanges and with a Turkey baster in between, suck out as much as possible off the walls, off the rock, off everything You can remove the sand in sections and wash it to remove the cyano. I would use filter floss and change it often during this time. 1 Quote Link to comment
specore Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 25 minutes ago, paulsz said: Okay and would I have to have a filter sock/floss in the sump to catch it all? I've been running my skimmer only for the last few months back That's probably part of your issue. There are a lot of ways to do things with a reef tank; however, I personally believe using filter floss (or less ideally a filter sock) to catch detritus is a must. Quote Link to comment
paulsz Posted November 6, 2018 Author Share Posted November 6, 2018 11 minutes ago, Clown79 said: Here come a lot of questions. Lol. Sorry, it's really to try to get an idea of what's going on and how to attack the situation. 1.What size tank and livestock in it 2. What water are you using, purchased at lfs, distilled, or rodi from home 3. Filtration media- what is used and how often is it maintained. 4. Do you vacuum your sand/blast rocks with every water change? 5. What do you feed, do you dose anything? For right now, you can in between waterchanges suck up the cyano with a Turkey baster During waterchanges and with a Turkey baster in between, suck out as much as possible off the walls, off the rock, off everything You can remove the sand in sections and wash it to remove the cyano. I would use filter floss and change it often during this time. 1. 35 g cube + 20 high sump (total volume of water about 40g per my calculations). Has only a yellow clown goby and a blue green Chromis. A few frags of Montis, one frag Birdsnest, one frag green slimer, some xenia, mushroom and gsp. 2. rodi at home (0 TDS) with red Sea coral pro 3. Just a skimmer. Cup is cleaned as needed 4. I only vacuum every few weeks. 5. Feed a bit of flakes or pellets and some frozen mysis. I have been feeding more than usual lately in an effort to raise nutrients as I have undetectable NO3 and PO4 and I believe it's affecting growth and coloration of my corals. Quote Link to comment
Clown79 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 9 minutes ago, specore said: That's probably part of your issue. There are a lot of ways to do things with a reef tank; however, I personally believe using filter floss (or less ideally a filter sock) to catch detritus is a must. Everything sounds fine. I'd vacuum the sand every week. It surprisingly gets pretty nasty in there. I would definitely use filter floss to trap detritus. This should be changed twice a week but more so during an outbreak. Finding a balance of nutrients can be challenging. Trying to feed more tends to get us into problems sometimes. Quote Link to comment
paulsz Posted November 6, 2018 Author Share Posted November 6, 2018 30 minutes ago, Clown79 said: Everything sounds fine. I'd vacuum the sand every week. It surprisingly gets pretty nasty in there. I would definitely use filter floss to trap detritus. This should be changed twice a week but more so during an outbreak. Finding a balance of nutrients can be challenging. Trying to feed more tends to get us into problems sometimes. So would you recommend just keeping it clean and giving it time? The thing is up to now it's been fairly clean and I did not see much growth on my corals. And so people did recommend overfeeding to raise nutrients. Am I better off letting this cyano phase out and then in a few months, if all matures,I look into raising my nutrients? One last question. Would dosing nitrates directly help at all? Quote Link to comment
specore Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 20 minutes ago, paulsz said: So would you recommend just keeping it clean and giving it time? The thing is up to now it's been fairly clean and I did not see much growth on my corals. And so people did recommend overfeeding to raise nutrients. Am I better off letting this cyano phase out and then in a few months, if all matures,I look into raising my nutrients? One last question. Would dosing nitrates directly help at all? yikes. Definitely stop overfeeding. You can feed more frequently once the cyano is cleared up, but still be sure everything gets consumed. And my humble opinion,...some people worry too much about low nutrients. Just because they are undetectable doesn't mean they aren't there. ex. my wife sets an entire chocolate cake in front of me and leaves the room. She returns ten minutes later and the cake is "undetectable", but my waistline can assure you it was there 😉 Right now you may still have undetectable phosphate levels even though the cyano is going crazy since the cyano is consuming phosphate at an intense rate. 1 3 Quote Link to comment
paulsz Posted November 6, 2018 Author Share Posted November 6, 2018 8 minutes ago, specore said: ex. my wife sets an entire chocolate cake in front of me and leaves the room. She returns ten minutes later and the cake is "undetectable", but my waistline can assure you it was there 😉 Now I understand! Hahaha I'll go back to feeding what can be consumed and keeping up with my wc and siphoning. Thanks 🙂 Quote Link to comment
Lula_Mae Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 1 hour ago, paulsz said: 1. 35 g cube + 20 high sump (total volume of water about 40g per my calculations). Has only a yellow clown goby and a blue green Chromis. A few frags of Montis, one frag Birdsnest, one frag green slimer, some xenia, mushroom and gsp. 2. rodi at home (0 TDS) with red Sea coral pro 3. Just a skimmer. Cup is cleaned as needed 4. I only vacuum every few weeks. 5. Feed a bit of flakes or pellets and some frozen mysis. I have been feeding more than usual lately in an effort to raise nutrients as I have undetectable NO3 and PO4 and I believe it's affecting growth and coloration of my corals. For what it's worth, I found feeding flakes to be a major contributor to my persistent cyano. I switched to pellets and did ultimately have to use Chemiclean to knock it out (my walking dendro did NOT appreciate it) but it has not really come back except in a low flow spot which I'll be working to correct. 1 Quote Link to comment
paulsz Posted November 6, 2018 Author Share Posted November 6, 2018 17 minutes ago, Lula_Mae said: For what it's worth, I found feeding flakes to be a major contributor to my persistent cyano. I switched to pellets and did ultimately have to use Chemiclean to knock it out (my walking dendro did NOT appreciate it) but it has not really come back except in a low flow spot which I'll be working to correct. Interesting. I may ditch the flakes for the next little bit and see if it helps. Thanks for help 🙂 1 Quote Link to comment
ninjamyst Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 looks like what I had for months. a mix of cyano AND dino. good luck pal. what helped me was removing part of sandbed little by little. i also dose nitrate because nitrate and phosphate was 0 all the time. I try to maintain nitrate at 2-5ppm now. I learned that 0 nitrate and phosphate is bad, but feeding to increase nutrient is even badddddder because you end up adding tons of other crap to the tank. 1 Quote Link to comment
paulsz Posted November 6, 2018 Author Share Posted November 6, 2018 42 minutes ago, ninjamyst said: looks like what I had for months. a mix of cyano AND dino. good luck pal. what helped me was removing part of sandbed little by little. i also dose nitrate because nitrate and phosphate was 0 all the time. I try to maintain nitrate at 2-5ppm now. I learned that 0 nitrate and phosphate is bad, but feeding to increase nutrient is even badddddder because you end up adding tons of other crap to the tank. What did you do when you removed the sandbed? rinse in rodi water then put it back in? Quote Link to comment
specore Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 11 hours ago, Lula_Mae said: For what it's worth, I found feeding flakes to be a major contributor to my persistent cyano. I switched to pellets and did ultimately have to use Chemiclean to knock it out (my walking dendro did NOT appreciate it) but it has not really come back except in a low flow spot which I'll be working to correct. I agree. Pellets don't break apart the the way flakes do, which leads to less being left behind after a feeding. The problem is fish morereadily accept flake than pellets. 1 Quote Link to comment
mitten_reef Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 12 hours ago, specore said: And my humble opinion,...some people worry too much about low nutrients. Just because they are undetectable doesn't mean they aren't there. ex. my wife sets an entire chocolate cake in front of me and leaves the room. She returns ten minutes later and the cake is "undetectable", but my waistline can assure you it was there 😉 BEST ANALOGY for "undetectable" EVER!!! 1 Quote Link to comment
Clown79 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 13 hours ago, paulsz said: So would you recommend just keeping it clean and giving it time? The thing is up to now it's been fairly clean and I did not see much growth on my corals. And so people did recommend overfeeding to raise nutrients. Am I better off letting this cyano phase out and then in a few months, if all matures,I look into raising my nutrients? One last question. Would dosing nitrates directly help at all? No. When an algae starts I don't let it go because it can become a big problem which takes more work. Finding the cause is the first step. It's usually something in maintenance not being done, over feeding, high bioload(we have erased that from your list), water quailty. Lack of flow. I would start using filter floss regularly. I also like using carbon. Buying bulk floss and carbon cuts costs. I bag my own carbon, use smaller quantities and change every 2 weeks. I would do an additional waterchange through the week, focusing on siphoning out the cyano and vacuuming the sand. Try to suck up the cyano off the sand as to not turn it over, then vacuum the sand. I would definitely vacuum sand every week. This is something that will prevent issues in the future. Adding small quantities of phosguard can help with outbreaks. Monitor phos regularly while using. Washing the sand bed may be a step that's necessary. You can suck up a portion with your waterchanges. Wash thoroughly under tap until it runs clean Final rinse with rodi water and prime. Return to tank. Do another section with the next waterchange. Adding another powerhead ane cutting a few hrs of photo period during this time can also help. Quote Link to comment
Clown79 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 11 hours ago, ninjamyst said: looks like what I had for months. a mix of cyano AND dino. good luck pal. what helped me was removing part of sandbed little by little. i also dose nitrate because nitrate and phosphate was 0 all the time. I try to maintain nitrate at 2-5ppm now. I learned that 0 nitrate and phosphate is bad, but feeding to increase nutrient is even badddddder because you end up adding tons of other crap to the tank. I had a huge outbreak in my 10g. Gha and cyano, mostly on the sand. The grain was larger than typical sand(black caribsea). I did everything I could manually and even after partial removal of the sand, I ended up just replacing the sand bed. Problem gone and never came back. Quote Link to comment
paulsz Posted November 6, 2018 Author Share Posted November 6, 2018 3 hours ago, Clown79 said: No. When an algae starts I don't let it go because it can become a big problem which takes more work. Finding the cause is the first step. It's usually something in maintenance not being done, over feeding, high bioload(we have erased that from your list), water quailty. Lack of flow. I would start using filter floss regularly. I also like using carbon. Buying bulk floss and carbon cuts costs. I bag my own carbon, use smaller quantities and change every 2 weeks. I would do an additional waterchange through the week, focusing on siphoning out the cyano and vacuuming the sand. Try to suck up the cyano off the sand as to not turn it over, then vacuum the sand. I would definitely vacuum sand every week. This is something that will prevent issues in the future. Adding small quantities of phosguard can help with outbreaks. Monitor phos regularly while using. Washing the sand bed may be a step that's necessary. You can suck up a portion with your waterchanges. Wash thoroughly under tap until it runs clean Final rinse with rodi water and prime. Return to tank. Do another section with the next waterchange. Adding another powerhead ane cutting a few hrs of photo period during this time can also help. Thanks! I will start doing that. Should i move those sps frags from the sand and glue them to rocks? They are getting enough flow (the polyps move), so i don't think they require more of it. But I worry the cyano will get to them. Quote Link to comment
Clown79 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 9 minutes ago, paulsz said: Thanks! I will start doing that. Should i move those sps frags from the sand and glue them to rocks? They are getting enough flow (the polyps move), so i don't think they require more of it. But I worry the cyano will get to them. Either that or a frag rack. Quote Link to comment
paulsz Posted November 9, 2018 Author Share Posted November 9, 2018 Took a piece of the brown stuff under a microscope. Is it in fact cyano or Dinos? Quote Link to comment
paulsz Posted November 10, 2018 Author Share Posted November 10, 2018 If Dinos, what can I do to beat it? Quote Link to comment
Lula_Mae Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 No idea on the microscope pics as I've never seen either magnified but I bet you can find pics somewhere on the web. There's lots of things to try with dinos, different strains respond to different things. I tried dosing bacteria and live phyto, no water changes, 4-5 day blackouts and more. They're tough to beat. I'd do some research to figure out an approach. Quote Link to comment
Tamberav Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 You could try this method out for IDing it: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2531708 Quote Link to comment
paulsz Posted November 10, 2018 Author Share Posted November 10, 2018 Thank you 🙂 it looks like prorocentrum after spending some time last night tying to ID it. Quote Link to comment
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