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NitrAtes!! Questions!?


FrancineJ

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If you had read the full post ( I know there is a lot lol). But I am keeping the sponge because I have Chaeto and because it has not started growing real well yet and is new it has little tiny pieces of break off.... so what I had said is that I had wanted to get 3 more sponges so I could swap them once a week... when I remove the one that would have been in the tank I would wash it out really good and let it dry out and it would not go back into the tank for another month (because I would have 3 others) if a sponge sits out and drys out for a month (probably less but I wanted to be safe) anything that’s on it dies... bacteria detritus everything would be gone and dead by the time it was time to replace it again... BUT since I could not buy any in Canada (like no where) I have purchased a nitrate reducing sponge type thing... it’s thinner than the original sponge (about half) and its cut to fit.... so as mentioned above I am going to try and use that in place of the sponge and then replace it once a week and throw out the old one... (it’s not that expensive a little bit more than filter floss and if it doesn’t work I am just going to cut a piece of the InTank floss and do the same... shove it in there and replace and throw away every week) 

 

As for the water changes and doing large ones- I have read it many many times (not from forums but in my research written by like marine biologists and actual like scientist people lol)

 

Because what happens is the minerals in the salt obviously get depleted over the course of time.... but slowly....and without all the science speak lol they basically said it’s much healthier for your fish to do no more than 30% changes (unless in an emergency situation obviously) because the shock on the fish and inverts of going from the depleted minerals to having 50% of their “world” changed so drastically in such a short time can effect them negatively (this is not really meant to mean a 1 or 2 time change will kill your fish) it’s more I suppose for the people who either 1- overstock their tanks and then do huge changes to compensate or 2- people who don’t like doing weekly changes so they do a big one every month instead.... it has to do with the osmoregulatory (if that’s a word lol but you know what I mean) of the way the fish’s internal organs and such take in the minerals through drinking the water and such...so basically when the Minerals are depleted slowly the fish adjust and when you do a small water change is does not drastically change the water chemistry that they are used to...however when you do a large one it changes the water chemistry too quickly and they don’t adjust as well...

Its like when you read on here about someone’s fish being sick and then you realize that they have 20 fish crammed into a nano tank and wonder why their fish or corals are not doing well even though their parameters are fine and they do 50% water changes every week... they are basically saying that it’s obviously 1- due to the over stocking but also because they are changing the chemistry of the water so much so quickly... it’s why the things like the AWCer are becoming more and more popular now because it’s much healthier for your fish to have say half a gallon of water changed everyday then to do a huge one every couple weeks... that way their bodily systems are used to having all the minerals they need being replenished regularly rather than a huge change.... The articles explain it much better... it’s like one of those things that if I went and did a 50% water change will it kill my fish? No.. but if I continually do them then it will have adverse effects on them and say a fish that could have lived for 5 years may die in 2....because it also causes them stress... I’m not as good at explaining it as they were lol And with my small bioload would it make much of a difference probably not because it’s been a week so they most likely have not used up the minerals yet and I probably didn’t even have to do a water change at all but I’d rather keep with it (until I get a chance to hook up the AWC) of doing it weekly....

i will see if I can find one or 2 of the links and I’ll share...

 

and yes I do know that 20 is not that bad but like I’ve said I’d just rather get it down now with my minimal stock then trying to fight an uphill battle later on...with a tank full of fish and a shrimp and CUC.... btw the new test (the regular Red Sea showed 10ppm lol so I’m going with it’s between 10-20ppm somewhere lol) I just don’t get how so many tests can read such a broad range... it baffles me... these are all the top named tests that people use on a regular basis... I ordered a salifert one just because I really want to sit down and take each test one day on the same day same time and see how different they read... it’s sparked my interest lol does anyone truly know what their nitrAtes even are??

if I would have stuck with one of those tests and hasn’t had others around or tried others I would have just assumed that that’s what my nitrAtes were when who knows what they are lol.... 

I wish my cousin lives closer... him and his wife are in the US and are both marine biologists so I bet they would have access to top of the line equipment and I would be curious to see if they had something to measure it with lab grade stuff just to see what test is actually the closest.... 

And no I’m not overthinking it... I’m not like freaking out or anything lol I just wanted to know if anyone had used anything successfully to get them down... without having to do a huge water change or repeated water changes that’s all... trying to take the easier way (if there was one) lol 

Like if I could pop in a bag of nitrate remover for a week and then take it out (like people do with phosguard and such when they get a spike and then remove it when it comes down...) 

Thags another thing people run that in their systems all the time non stop and change it out like monthly or whatever but if you go to the website it’s not even meant to be run as a permanent part of your system according to seachem lol you’d think they would be like “ya sure run it all the time and change it out” more money for them right?  But I read on one of their forums that it’s to be used to bring them down until your next water change and be taken out... and only added back in if your phosphates increase again... it does just go to show you that I suppose everyone does everything differently...

But no don’t worry... not panicking lol just was looking to see what others have done... that’s all... I like options... and I research everything (probably because I never sleep lol I have a bad diagnosis of insomnia lol for example it’s 3:30 am right now and I haven’t slept yet 😡) So please excuse the typos and the blabbering on lol

 

Thanks for your help and input... but again I think it’s all good now... I’d close the thread but I have no idea how or if you can lol! 

 

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4 hours ago, FrancineJ said:

If you had read the full post ( I know there is a lot lol). But I am keeping the sponge because I have Chaeto and because it has not started growing real well yet and is new it has little tiny pieces of break off.... so what I had said is that I had wanted to get 3 more sponges so I could swap them once a week... when I remove the one that would have been in the tank I would wash it out really good and let it dry out and it would not go back into the tank for another month (because I would have 3 others) if a sponge sits out and drys out for a month (probably less but I wanted to be safe) anything that’s on it dies... bacteria detritus everything would be gone and dead by the time it was time to replace it again... BUT since I could not buy any in Canada (like no where) I have purchased a nitrate reducing sponge type thing... it’s thinner than the original sponge (about half) and its cut to fit.... so as mentioned above I am going to try and use that in place of the sponge and then replace it once a week and throw out the old one... (it’s not that expensive a little bit more than filter floss and if it doesn’t work I am just going to cut a piece of the InTank floss and do the same... shove it in there and replace and throw away every week) 

 

As for the water changes and doing large ones- I have read it many many times (not from forums but in my research written by like marine biologists and actual like scientist people lol)

 

Because what happens is the minerals in the salt obviously get depleted over the course of time.... but slowly....and without all the science speak lol they basically said it’s much healthier for your fish to do no more than 30% changes (unless in an emergency situation obviously) because the shock on the fish and inverts of going from the depleted minerals to having 50% of their “world” changed so drastically in such a short time can effect them negatively (this is not really meant to mean a 1 or 2 time change will kill your fish) it’s more I suppose for the people who either 1- overstock their tanks and then do huge changes to compensate or 2- people who don’t like doing weekly changes so they do a big one every month instead.... it has to do with the osmoregulatory (if that’s a word lol but you know what I mean) of the way the fish’s internal organs and such take in the minerals through drinking the water and such...so basically when the Minerals are depleted slowly the fish adjust and when you do a small water change is does not drastically change the water chemistry that they are used to...however when you do a large one it changes the water chemistry too quickly and they don’t adjust as well...

Its like when you read on here about someone’s fish being sick and then you realize that they have 20 fish crammed into a nano tank and wonder why their fish or corals are not doing well even though their parameters are fine and they do 50% water changes every week... they are basically saying that it’s obviously 1- due to the over stocking but also because they are changing the chemistry of the water so much so quickly... it’s why the things like the AWCer are becoming more and more popular now because it’s much healthier for your fish to have say half a gallon of water changed everyday then to do a huge one every couple weeks... that way their bodily systems are used to having all the minerals they need being replenished regularly rather than a huge change.... The articles explain it much better... it’s like one of those things that if I went and did a 50% water change will it kill my fish? No.. but if I continually do them then it will have adverse effects on them and say a fish that could have lived for 5 years may die in 2....because it also causes them stress... I’m not as good at explaining it as they were lol And with my small bioload would it make much of a difference probably not because it’s been a week so they most likely have not used up the minerals yet and I probably didn’t even have to do a water change at all but I’d rather keep with it (until I get a chance to hook up the AWC) of doing it weekly....

i will see if I can find one or 2 of the links and I’ll share...

 

and yes I do know that 20 is not that bad but like I’ve said I’d just rather get it down now with my minimal stock then trying to fight an uphill battle later on...with a tank full of fish and a shrimp and CUC.... btw the new test (the regular Red Sea showed 10ppm lol so I’m going with it’s between 10-20ppm somewhere lol) I just don’t get how so many tests can read such a broad range... it baffles me... these are all the top named tests that people use on a regular basis... I ordered a salifert one just because I really want to sit down and take each test one day on the same day same time and see how different they read... it’s sparked my interest lol does anyone truly know what their nitrAtes even are??

if I would have stuck with one of those tests and hasn’t had others around or tried others I would have just assumed that that’s what my nitrAtes were when who knows what they are lol.... 

I wish my cousin lives closer... him and his wife are in the US and are both marine biologists so I bet they would have access to top of the line equipment and I would be curious to see if they had something to measure it with lab grade stuff just to see what test is actually the closest.... 

And no I’m not overthinking it... I’m not like freaking out or anything lol I just wanted to know if anyone had used anything successfully to get them down... without having to do a huge water change or repeated water changes that’s all... trying to take the easier way (if there was one) lol 

Like if I could pop in a bag of nitrate remover for a week and then take it out (like people do with phosguard and such when they get a spike and then remove it when it comes down...) 

Thags another thing people run that in their systems all the time non stop and change it out like monthly or whatever but if you go to the website it’s not even meant to be run as a permanent part of your system according to seachem lol you’d think they would be like “ya sure run it all the time and change it out” more money for them right?  But I read on one of their forums that it’s to be used to bring them down until your next water change and be taken out... and only added back in if your phosphates increase again... it does just go to show you that I suppose everyone does everything differently...

But no don’t worry... not panicking lol just was looking to see what others have done... that’s all... I like options... and I research everything (probably because I never sleep lol I have a bad diagnosis of insomnia lol for example it’s 3:30 am right now and I haven’t slept yet 😡) So please excuse the typos and the blabbering on lol

 

Thanks for your help and input... but again I think it’s all good now... I’d close the thread but I have no idea how or if you can lol! 

 

I actually did read every post. Some were a bit hard to follow (paragraphs help break up long trains of thought so they're easier to read and process). The point I was trying to make about the detritus is that even if you wash the sponge and dry it out, there may still be detritus in the cells of the sponge. Detritus is just waste, not a living organism (mostly). I was trying to save you a potential headache. 

 

We have actual scientist people on here. I'd be interested to know there thoughts on this so I'll tag them. @yoshii @Subsea You're also welcome to share these articles because we have a lot of smart people on here who might find them an interesting read.

 

Most people on here are not cramming 20 fish in a nano and when they do, they are encouraged to take some back to the store.

 

I did say you had the right idea to get it under control now before fully stocking the tank. 

 

I neither thought nor suggested that you were panicking, merely that you were overthinking it. I was trying to be helpful to a newcomer, as I am wont to do, but I can see my help is neither wanted nor needed. Best of luck navigating this complex and wonderful hobby. 

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@FrancineJ

 

Please send a link with product specifications for the denitrate sponge you are using.

 

Did I understand you to post that you have 200 tanks? 

 

I saw a tank thread dated Oct 12, 2018.  Is that the tank with the nitrate question?

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A lot of ppl with reef tanks use chaeto and with no sponge and do not have issues with their pumps clogging or pieces floating in their tank.

 

 

As for the proof of large waterchanges being an issues due to parameters changing- it's the reason why we advise ensuring parameters match when doing waterchanges.

Large waterchanges have been a long time practice and can be a very safe and beneficial one.

If anything, adding materials to reduce nitrates and phos are often more problematic than doing large waterchanges(especially with no corals)

 

People are trying to give you help and advice. it sometimes appears as though you become defensive/argumentative which can be off putting to those who are experienced and offering their knowledge and support.

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@FrancineJ

 

In a mature reef tank, coral and macro both absorb nitrate & phosphate in the ratio of 30:1.    So if you want to reduce nitrate e without doing water changes, then grow some coral and/or some macro.  Coral zoanthellia is

 

While I have used phosphate reducing resins with good results, I have not had confidence with nitrate reducing resins vendor claims.  

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I am not being defensive but my point was that I know water changes will decrease it... I wanted to know if anyone had used any other methods that’s all...

 

That was all I was wondering and it turned into this crazy mess....

 

All I was stating was that through my research it’s more healthy and beneficial for the fish ect... to do smaller water changes instead of larger ones because again, not to do with the salinity or any of that... but to do with the minerals and such that the salt adds to the water... the articles I read said that it’s better for fish long term and short term to do a series of smaller water changes over a week or do your regular ones once a week than to do a large one... because as the days go by the minerals are depleted slowly.... when you add new salt water it brings them all back up very quickly and can mess with their systems.... because it happens rapidly not slowly like when the deplete... that was all but again I would do 1 large water change because doing that kind of thing once or twice here and there will not kill your fish but if you do it every time or wait long periods and then do a large one it’s harder on the fish’s systems... I am by no means being defensive.... although it appears people are reading it that way..., but when sentences are followed by an “lol” it’s generally in a light hearted manner or joke... and I also thank everyone at the end of each post for their thoughts and ideas... but it’s just the same answer over and over... so there’s not much more to add... I can not do a large water change right now because of our equipment situation so that’s why again. I was seeing if anything had worked for anyone else... simply because I know once I get them down they will stay down because my water changes will be the same as all my other tanks and done maybe a day after a week... for example... all I have is 2 clowns and a couple snails... who aren’t producing hardly anything because there isn’t anything left for them to eat lol (hence why I only added a few right now)

 

If I had the equipment to do 1 big change right now then I would have just done it but I do not unfortunately so that’s why I was curious... everyone uses different set ups so I didn’t know if anyone had tried anything other than water changes.... that was all.... and no one has to agree with my about doing regular large water changes being worse then a series of small ones but I’ve done a lot of research and belong to nearly every salt water forum there is and people have offered me some great advice...and I have found some great scientific information to support it... 

 

For example if I could get my hands on a couple more sponges all you have to do is treat it like regenerating purigen... bleach, then water and prime and then let it dry... and it would have a month before needing to be placed back in the tank....that will kill all the detritus and anything else in there but I can’t get them in Canada so I went with trying these (see picture) 

 ((And no @Subsea  lol I do not have 200 tanks (this is my first salt water but I have MANY Freshwater and Brackish Tanks big and small.... 10 would be more like it... but I don’t count some of my small ones like 8 and 10g’s lol that was just an exaggeration lol.... although i would love 200 tanks if I didn’t have to maintain them all lol))

 

So in place of the sponge I’m trying cutting these filters (again see picture) I have idea if they will work but what’s the harm in trying... it will be tossed in a week anyway and I’ll know if they worked or not if they do...great...if they don’t then I’m just gonna shove some of my InTank filter floss in there and chuck it every couple days or in a week... it’s easy to see if it needs replacing...

 

yes people do use Chaeto without the sponge but a lot of people also keep the sponge there to stop the bits from getting into their pump... and a lot of people just keep it there without the Chaeto with no issues... the same way people were able to keep the bioballs with no issues while other were not (in the old ones) but from the recommendations from InTank (it’s in their Fuge basket) and others I have chosen to keep something there... and it was based on a similar post to this one...

but the sponge is out not anyway and I have a cut of this filter pad in there for now... if I notice things going down hill then I’ll take it out... and just put the filter floss in...  I don’t quite understand how people think I am being argumentative... I’m only letting people know what I have read and what has been told to me.... it’s the same way when you are doing research and you come across a person that regularly posts on a forum and you find them giving 2 different people 2 different answers to the same question... I find it kind of funny... they tell person one thing and the other the opposite for the exact same question.... those are the people I tend to skip over their answers lol but by no means am I being rude (and that’s part of the problem with typing... no one can sense your tone... so while I could be laughing someone could be reading it as if I’m being argumentative when it was not the intention at all.... just gets lost in translation...)

 

so again i thank each and everyone of you guys (seriously, no sarcasm) for your time to respond to my post... and I thank you for your answers 🙂 

 

 

As for the filter pad in the picture it has all positive reviews that it works and it says it’s safe for freshwater, saltwater and ponds... so why the heck not try it out lol (I got it from amazon)

 

EF11A2E1-4255-410E-86D3-3DC500D5F801.jpeg

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26 minutes ago, Subsea said:

@FrancineJ

 

In a mature reef tank, coral and macro both absorb nitrate & phosphate in the ratio of 30:1.    So if you want to reduce nitrate e without doing water changes, then grow some coral and/or some macro.  Coral zoanthellia is

 

While I have used phosphate reducing resins with good results, I have not had confidence with nitrate reducing resins vendor claims.  

Thank you for that info! We are new to this so we are taking it really really slowly... we are going to work on adding and keeping our fish and cuc alive first and then try some corals down the road.... that’s why I was hoping to reduce them to around 5 or so before adding more fish and then trying to fight a bit of an uphill battle... because as of right now with just 2 clowns I have 0 waste (food wise) lol I drop in a couple NLS pellets or some mysis shrimp and nothing hardly hits the water lol I’m sure i could hand feed them already lol

 

and I do have macro... just waiting for it to grow... I only added it a week ago... it’s def. growing just at a slower rate because I don’t think I have quite enough to feed it... my nitrAtes are up but I have 0 phosphates so it’s just the waste from the 2 clowns and my very tiny cuc... 

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21 minutes ago, FrancineJ said:

Thank you for that info! We are new to this so we are taking it really really slowly... we are going to work on adding and keeping our fish and cuc alive first and then try some corals down the road.... that’s why I was hoping to reduce them to around 5 or so before adding more fish and then trying to fight a bit of an uphill battle... because as of right now with just 2 clowns I have 0 waste (food wise) lol I drop in a couple NLS pellets or some mysis shrimp and nothing hardly hits the water lol I’m sure i could hand feed them already lol

 

and I do have macro... just waiting for it to grow... I only added it a week ago... it’s def. growing just at a slower rate because I don’t think I have quite enough to feed it... my nitrAtes are up but I have 0 phosphates so it’s just the waste from the 2 clowns and my very tiny cuc... 

With respect to zero phosphates, I question the accuracy of the test kit.  Take sample to lfs and get a comparitive test done.  What light are you using over your macro?  What type of macro?

 

PS:  I reread thread and realized you did not test for phosphate.  I suggest you get it tested at the same time you get nitrates tested.   

 

 

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@FrancineJ

 

I suggest you start a tank thread so that all pertinent information for your tank is in one place.  This facilitates better communication with less repetitive questions for information:

 

What lights are you using?  What macro are you growing?

 

 

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See 2 other members told me to do the exact opposite... they told me to start a new thread if it’s for something else and just keep one question on one thread lol 

 

right now just the stock LED’s because I have nothing but the 2 clowns a a couple cuc

and I’m growing Chaeto... in the InTank Fuge using a JBJ nano glo light on the back... it’s almost doubled in size in about a week but there is still not much there... I started with about a golf ball size 

 

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59 minutes ago, Subsea said:

With respect to zero phosphates, I question the accuracy of the test kit.  Take sample to lfs and get a comparitive test done.  What light are you using over your macro?  What type of macro?

 

PS:  I reread thread and realized you did not test for phosphate.  I suggest you get it tested at the same time you get nitrates tested.   

 

 

Ya I did test for phosphates but again not planning on adding coral for like 6 months or so and it was 0 so I just didn’t say anything because I figured someone would ask if they thought it had something to do with my problems...I used 2 different tests... I used the API test and I used the salifert and then I bought the UL Hanna checker and they all said 0.0... I found it odd too....

 

but the rest are all old posts that have been figured out and done... but I’ve said it a couple times I don’t know if you can do it on this forum but I’d close them off or delete them but I don’t know how... on other ones (forums) you can close them once you don’t need an answer anymore 

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