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Scoly Problem -- Need Help


FlytheWMark

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I picked up this Scoly about 3 weeks ago.  For the first two weeks it was doing fine, it was responding to feeding, looked good, etc.  I noticed last week that it had started to recede (the blueish section in the top left and bottom left).  When I went to feed yesterday I got no response at all.  Ammonia is 0, my nitrates usually hover around 10, PH is 8-8.2, no phosphates.  When I tested on Sat Alk had dropped lower than I normally keep it (7.7 vs 8.4 - 9 typically in my tank) and calcium was a little low (375 but got it back to 400 on Sat).  This is in a 10 gallon IM running Kessil A80.  They run about 11 hours getting to 40% color and 85% intensity for a short time.  It was in an area of a bit higher flow near my Duncans but I've moved it over to a lower flow area.

 

This is my wife's new favorite coral, any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

2018-10-20 16.52.39.jpg

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One other note, my temp in the tank does fluctuate between 78-82 depending on the time of day some days.  I've read Scoly's like lower temps (around 77-78), could this be part of the problem?

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  • 2 months later...

thx for your input,

in my case, I suspected trace elements so I stated doing water changes more often ( once a  week instead of my usual once very 8-10 weeks...

I never tested for iodine but I have a triton test kit that I won in a show setting somewhere in the garage, might not be a bad idea to try it out,.

my scoly hasn't changed, not receding more/ not recovering... it looks to me that it has found a happy ( size) but unfortunately this happy size is not covering the whole skeleton...

I also have a significant amount of bristle worms recently, could this be a problem?

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Northern Reef

Large lps have a much harder time re-growing over dead skeleton. You can try removing the old skeleton or just wait it out. 

I'm not sure about the bristle worms I would only see them as a problem if the flesh was dieing they may go after it. As hermit carbs seem to love the dieing flesh of lps 

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  • 2 weeks later...

My Scoly is doing much better now.  The main issue I found was temperature.  I have since set up a new 20 gallon tank that I keep around 76 degrees and it's much happier.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 10/22/2018 at 10:49 AM, Mark L. said:

One other note, my temp in the tank does fluctuate between 78-82 depending on the time of day some days.  I've read Scoly's like lower temps (around 77-78), could this be part of the problem?

Glad he's doing so much better!!!

 

Did anyone speculate as to why this temperature sensitivity would exist?

 

Unless he was collected from temperate waters (Caribbean and South American specimens...others?) it seems like that's something they would be pretty resilient to, being from relatively shallow, relatively stagnant water.

 

Julian Sprung had a nice piece on them in Advanced Aquarist back in 2003....check out the specific section on Scolemia and the section on care at the very least:

https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/11/inverts#section-0

https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/11/inverts#section-7

 

There are no mentions of temperature sensitivity, but there are special concerns for each type of "scoly" that might be pretty helpful.

 

BTW, do you ever test NO3 and PO4 in this tank?  Any idea what it was back in October vs what it's like now?   Ditto for ca, alk and mg.

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7 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Glad he's doing so much better!!!

 

Did anyone speculate as to why this temperature sensitivity would exist?

 

Unless he was collected from temperate waters (Caribbean and South American specimens...others?) it seems like that's something they would be pretty resilient to, being from relatively shallow, relatively stagnant water.

 

Julian Sprung had a nice piece on them in Advanced Aquarist back in 2003....check out the specific section on Scolemia and the section on care at the very least:

https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/11/inverts#section-0

https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/11/inverts#section-7

 

There are no mentions of temperature sensitivity, but there are special concerns for each type of "scoly" that might be pretty helpful.

 

BTW, do you ever test NO3 and PO4 in this tank?  Any idea what it was back in October vs what it's like now?   Ditto for ca, alk and mg.

I didn't get much on the temp sensitive issue, just what was recommended so take that for what its worth.  Back in Oct Nitrates were 10 or lower, almost 0 Phosphates, CA was between 390-430 (depending on the day) and my alk was usually between 8.4-9.  Like I said I moved him to a larger tank that was cooler and also a little less light so between the two its just happier.  I don't have a recent picture but it's looking even better now, much "fluffier", feeds very often and is growing bigger.  As is the case with most things I think the stability more than anything is helping it thrive.

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4 minutes ago, Mark L. said:

Back in Oct Nitrates were 10 or lower, almost 0 Phosphates, CA was between 390-430 (depending on the day) and my alk was usually between 8.4-9.

Seems like those nutrient conditions may have contributed to me.

 

How about test results from where he is now?

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2 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Seems like those nutrient conditions may have contributed to me.

 

How about test results from where he is now?

Nitrates are higher in this tank (getting ready to put in a skimmer to better control it).. close to 20.  All other parameters are similar. 

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So phosphates are zero?

 

Nitrates won't be impacted much by a skimmer, BTW, but I'd still recommend having one.   And 20 isn't really all that high, so no worries yet, IMO.

 

But...

 

If your phos IS still at zero, then that's probably why nitrates are accumulating and not getting used up.  (If phos isn't zero, then no worries.)

 

Nutrients get used up in approximately the ratio of 16 nitrogens to every 1 phosphorous.   

 

No phosphorous, no usage.  No usage, no growth, reproduction or repair.

 

So get the skimmer, but also (if PO4=0) get a small bottle of something like Seachem Flourish Phosphate...usually about $5.  If you use that to maintain a mimimum of 0.03 ppm PO4 (directions are on the bottle) you'll find that those nitrates get used up naturally, as they should.  :-)

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8 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

So phosphates are zero?

 

Nitrates won't be impacted much by a skimmer, BTW, but I'd still recommend having one.   And 20 isn't really all that high, so no worries yet, IMO.

 

But...

 

If your phos IS still at zero, then that's probably why nitrates are accumulating and not getting used up.  (If phos isn't zero, then no worries.)

 

Nutrients get used up in approximately the ratio of 16 nitrogens to every 1 phosphorous.   

 

No phosphorous, no usage.  No usage, no growth, reproduction or repair.

 

So get the skimmer, but also (if PO4=0) get a small bottle of something like Seachem Flourish Phosphate...usually about $5.  If you use that to maintain a mimimum of 0.03 ppm PO4 (directions are on the bottle) you'll find that those nitrates get used up naturally, as they should.  🙂

I use API testing for Phosphates which I know is notoriously not reliable and just gives a range so it may not be completely 0.  In my 10 gallon tank I put a skimmer in so I could run Nopox to drop my nitrates and it worked beautifully.  That's what I'm going to do for my 20 gallon.  I'm pseudo-lazy so my goal is water changes every 2 weeks vs 1 week 🙂

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Please don't run organic carbon - this is not the place for laziness.  (There are lots of places for it, just not here)   You're as likely to start a dino-fest as you are to resolve anything, even considering your past experience. 

 

I'm begging you to do something about the lack of phosphates instead....your API isn't lying, it just isn't precise.  You're heading down a potentially dangerous road for your tank if you don't.  (Imprecision and lying aren't the same at all.)

 

Please look up some examples of folks with tanks very much like yours who hit the tank with GFO and/or carbon dosing on my old dino thread on Reef2Reef.  (I know it's a big thread....either use the search function to find the examples like yours or just trust me.)

 

Remember that nutrients are GOOD not BAD.  They just need to be in some kind of balance in order for them to be used up.  Achieve that balance!!  :-)

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19 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Please don't run organic carbon - this is not the place for laziness.  (There are lots of places for it, just not here)   You're as likely to start a dino-fest as you are to resolve anything, even considering your past experience. 

 

I'm begging you to do something about the lack of phosphates instead....your API isn't lying, it just isn't precise.  You're heading down a potentially dangerous road for your tank if you don't.  (Imprecision and lying aren't the same at all.)

 

Please look up some examples of folks with tanks very much like yours who hit the tank with GFO and/or carbon dosing on my old dino thread on Reef2Reef.  (I know it's a big thread....either use the search function to find the examples like yours or just trust me.)

 

Remember that nutrients are GOOD not BAD.  They just need to be in some kind of balance in order for them to be used up.  Achieve that balance!!  🙂

Thanks for the advice.  I did a ton of research on this before I decided to go this route and read about the many risks.  I dose a tiny amount a couple of times a week and it has really helped stabilize my tank.  I have really good growth and colors with most of my corals now.  My question to you is what phosphate testing kit do you recommend? Like I said I have a really hard time reading/interpreting the API phosphate kit and would like something that could better tell me what my phosphates are. I understand there is a need for phosphates in the system for proper tank maintenance.  Due to the health and growth of the tank I seriously doubt mine are at 0 but you have my attention now of better monitoring the phosphate number and getting an accurate read out.

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Hanna or similar is the only thing better than a drip-test like you have now, as far as I'm aware.   

 

I like their model #713.  That model is their mid-range in sensitivity. 

 

The ultra low range has a MUCH more limited high end and isn't THAT much more accurate on the low end, where you don't really need it IMO....zero is zero and you can read that on a drip test.  It's the higher values that are trouble to read.  The high-range model is actually too high to be worth using.

 

Try not to be hung up on the idea that "algae are causing zero" because even if it's true it doesn't matter

 

Zero in the water is still zero in the water and that'll keep the things from growing that you DO want to grow.   For example...

 

You'll have a tough time growing any coraline algae with zeor nutrients.   Coraline is the best possible tank-defense against pest algae as it blocks the space from being used AND consumes a share of the tank's "excess" nutrients at the same time.   Those are two of the three main things that pest algae require to grow.  Once coraline completes its dominance, even the more-shady spots will be taken.

 

As for things still doing well, these are things that may have been in the tank before levels dropped so low.  Most critters of interest, such as corals and algae, can both stockpile and recycle nutrients....corals tend to be very adept at it, especially nitrogen.  But don't count on that to continue on forever under present conditions, and don't expect new additions to the tank to do equally well as existing corals.

 

FYI, carbon dosing won't do a lot without available phosphates either.  Part of carbon dosing's effect is from the bloom in bacterial population you get from UNlimiting their carbon sources.   Which, it's worth pointing out, goes for all bacteria not just the ones that process nitrogen.  (Check out Global microbialization of coral reefs for a higher level review of why NOT to carbon-dose our tanks...in summary, we want corals to be the dominant carbon source in our tanks.)    Normally only photosynthetics like coral and algae have unlimited carbon at their disposal.  Anyway, no phosphate, no bloom.  No bloom and you'll have minimal effect with carbon dosing.

 

:-)

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