Another help thread: Mature tank not acting mature? Im so lost 😢

[chaostactics]

I have an IM 40 of which all the contents were transplanted from an IM 30 that was doing relatively well.

I get cyano blooms here and there, i cant keep macro algae alive at all, coraline algae doesnt grow, and every bta i add to the tank shrinks to almost nothing (baseball size shrinks to grape size but doesnt die off all together)., and my pod population is nil despite adding pods a few times.

I did not have these issues with my IM 30. 

 

The setup: 

IM 40 gallon

Radion XR30Pro 4th gen 10 hours on, coral lab setting, 30-40% max for about an hour.

Vortech MP10QD around 40-50% max flow

Tunze 1073.05 return at 50-60%

Tunze 9004 skimmer (running faily wet)

Biopellet reactor

Aquamaxx FRS GFO reactor (running BRS recommended amount of media)

Purigen 100 ml bag x 2

Apex controller (tank runs around 79 degrees and 8.1-8.3 pH depending on time of day)

 

Live stock: two ocellaris, 1 royal gramma, 1 cleaner shrimp, 1 emerald crab, misc clean up crew.

 

Corals: rock flower x 2 (lost one recently), maxi-mini (has shrunken considerably but not died after 9 months), BTA x 2 (same shrinking), misc rics, zoa, mushroom, grogornia, euphyllias, acans, duncans

 

I feed 3 times a week and sparingly, change water monthly (20% with redsea coral pro and 0 TDS rodi), and run an ato to keep salinity consistent.

 

The tank has been up for around a year and just isnt doing as well as it should. I can not freaking figure out whats going on im about ready to throw in the towel, tear down, and sell off after 15 years of reefing. 

 

 

 

[A Little Blue]

1 hour ago, chaostactics said:

I have an IM 40 of which all the contents were transplanted from an IM 30 that was doing relatively well.

I get cyano blooms here and there, i cant keep macro algae alive at all, coraline algae doesnt grow, and every bta i add to the tank shrinks to almost nothing (baseball size shrinks to grape size but doesnt die off all together)., and my pod population is nil despite adding pods a few times.

I did not have these issues with my IM 30. 

 

The setup: 

IM 40 gallon

Radion XR30Pro 4th gen 10 hours on, coral lab setting, 30-40% max for about an hour.

Vortech MP10QD around 40-50% max flow

Tunze 1073.05 return at 50-60%

Tunze 9004 skimmer (running faily wet)

Biopellet reactor

Aquamaxx FRS GFO reactor (running BRS recommended amount of media)

Purigen 100 ml bag x 2

Apex controller (tank runs around 79 degrees and 8.1-8.3 pH depending on time of day)

 

Live stock: two ocellaris, 1 royal gramma, 1 cleaner shrimp, 1 emerald crab, misc clean up crew.

 

Corals: rock flower x 2 (lost one recently), maxi-mini (has shrunken considerably but not died after 9 months), BTA x 2 (same shrinking), misc rics, zoa, mushroom, grogornia, euphyllias, acans, duncans

 

I feed 3 times a week and sparingly, change water monthly (20% with redsea coral pro and 0 TDS rodi), and run an ato to keep salinity consistent.

 

The tank has been up for around a year and just isnt doing as well as it should. I can not freaking figure out whats going on im about ready to throw in the towel, tear down, and sell off after 15 years of reefing. 

 

 

 

Got sand? 

What rock have you used in your aquascape?

Don’t give up just yet. 

Naturally it would be best to get to the root of the problem but you can always try other methods to eradicate Cyano. 

I’m not a person with enough experience on Cyano battle so others can chime in but I always try to get to the source of the issue first. I had little Cyano in the past but it came and went without any aggressive action on my part. In your case, there seems to be a more serious issue. I have never had any success with biopellets in the past so I can’t help you in figuring out if that might have any part in your tank having this problem or not. 

[banasophia]

What are your temp and parameters like? Also, a pic of your tank might help us to help you better.

[pal]

Maybe too clean? I had similar problems and my nitrate was 0. I would test nitrates and phophates.

[HarryPotter]

I would just reset it- mix up the sand bed and then 100% water change. Probably not with RSCP though, alk too high.  If a tank is more of a pain than a reward, have to do something drastic. 

[banasophia]

2 minutes ago, HarryPotter said:

I would just reset it- mix up the sand bed and then 100% water change. Probably not with RSCP though, alk too high.  If a tank is more of a pain than a reward, have to do something drastic. 

Yeah, I just switched from RSCP mixed with distilled to Reef Crystals mixed with RODI for my last two water changes and my corals seem happier so far. I think parameters mix up about the same for the two brands, but seems like it may be better for my system for some reason, at least so far... 

[HarryPotter]

3 minutes ago, banasophia said:

Yeah, I just switched from RSCP mixed with distilled to Reef Crystals mixed with RODI for my last two water changes and my corals seem happier so far. I think parameters mix up about the same for the two brands, but seems like it may be better for my system for some reason, at least so far... 

 

You misunderstand- I am not criticizing RSCP in general. I use RSCP for my water changes. Its just that you dont want to do 100% water change with RSCP, because that will make your parameters TOO high. Alk of 12 is probably not good. 

 

 

[banasophia]

1 minute ago, HarryPotter said:

 

You misunderstand- I am not criticizing RSCP in general. I use RSCP for my water changes. Its just that you dont want to do 100% water change with RSCP, because that will make your parameters TOO high. Alk of 12 is probably not good. 

 

 

Ah gotcha... but if they are already using RSCP, would that still be a concern?

[HarryPotter]

1 minute ago, banasophia said:

Ah gotcha... but if they are already using RSCP, would that still be a concern?

 

Yes. If your alkalinity is 8, and you do a 20% change with an alkalinity of 12, your alkalinity rises by 20% of the difference in parameters: 1/5*4=  .8. 8 dkh to 8.8 dkh is fine, and to me even desirable so that I dont need to dose as much. 8dkh to 12dkh is not. 

[chaostactics]

2 hours ago, A Little Blue said:

Got sand? 

What rock have you used in your aquascape?

Its a mix of grey coast calcite and caribsea black sand, most of which has been in various tanks of mine for 10 years. 

 

The rock is a mixture of live rock ive had in various systems for 6-7 years.

[chaostactics]

1 hour ago, HarryPotter said:

I would just reset it- mix up the sand bed and then 100% water change. Probably not with RSCP though, alk too high.  If a tank is more of a pain than a reward, have to do something drastic. 

 

80-90% of the sand bed gets churned with every water change as i vacuum at the same time. Ive done %50 water changes but not 100% 

 

I got the RSCP to avoid dosing. 

[chaostactics]

1 hour ago, banasophia said:

Yeah, I just switched from RSCP mixed with distilled to Reef Crystals mixed with RODI for my last two water changes and my corals seem happier so far. I think parameters mix up about the same for the two brands, but seems like it may be better for my system for some reason, at least so far... 

I used Reef crystals for the last 10 years or so switched ro redsea in the last month to see if it would help. Seems to make no diff in my params. 

[HarryPotter]

1 minute ago, chaostactics said:

I used Reef crystals for the last 10 years or so switched ro redsea in the last month to see if it would help. Seems to make no diff in my params. 

 

You're saying a 50% water change with RSCP makes no difference in your parameters? 

 

What is your alkalinity? 

[chaostactics]

Someone asked for a pic, its hard to get the white balance correct. 

[chaostactics]

28 minutes ago, HarryPotter said:

 

You're saying a 50% water change with RSCP makes no difference in your parameters? 

 

What is your alkalinity? 

Oh no, i wasnt saying that ive just done a couple of 20% water changes in the past month. My last params on reef crystals were Mag 1400, Cal 400, and Alk 7

[A Little Blue]

47 minutes ago, chaostactics said:

Its a mix of grey coast calcite and caribsea black sand, most of which has been in various tanks of mine for 10 years. 

 

The rock is a mixture of live rock ive had in various systems for 6-7 years.

Seems like you have nicely aged LR. That’s a good thing and it doesn’t appears to be the suspect of leaching phosphates. Don’t know about sand since you said that you maintain it often (personally I don’t use sand in any of my tanks. This approach proves to be more stable long term, ease of maintenance and ability to provide optimal flow in my experience). 

Have you consider using external UV filter? If that was me, it would be my next step. Ofcause UV doesn’t work on all kinds of Cyanobacteria but it’s worth a try. Getting Cyano freefloating might require some work tho. 

You might also consider implementing algae reactor or fuge to outcompete  nuisance algae or bacteria that feeds of phosphates/nitrates. And I would take a closer look into your biopellet reactor. Not a big fan of those. 

I would rethink various filtration strategies after you get rid of Cyano. 

 

[chaostactics]

The cyano itself is not my largest concern, though it is one of them. 

 

I may consider ditching the biopellet reactor though...

 

I cant do a fuge as my macros keep dying (i didnt have this issue with my 30 gallon)

 

A UV sterilizer is not impossible but close to as i dont think the ones that are submersible are shown to be that effective and i dont have space to run one externally 

[A Little Blue]

1 minute ago, chaostactics said:

The cyano itself is not my largest concern, though it is one of them. 

 

I cant do a fuge as my macros keep dying (i didnt have this issue with my 30 gallon)

 

A UV sterilizer is not impossible but close to as i dont think the ones that are submersible are shown to be that effective and i dont have space to run one externally 

Well, I couldn’t grow Chaeto no matter what I have tried. But, I am extremely happy with Sea Grapes. It grows like a weeds and keeps my display part of the tank algae free. 

 

As to UV filter well, it doesn’t have to be a permanent fix. If you can run something like 40-50watts for several weeks, it could be enough to get rid of your Cyano problem. 

 

What’s your largest concern than? 

[mitten_reef]

Remove biopellet, remove gfo, remove purigen. Observe. Then slowly adjust the chem filtration only as needed. You mentioned you feed lightly, having that amount of chemical filtration you do will strip the nutrients down to nothing.

I have an IM 30L, I feed sparingly like you.  But I have one tablespoon of purigen and quarter cup of carbon, that’s it. Corals seem to thrive, minus my occasional alk problems. In fact with that lil chemical filtration, I still find myself needing to dose the tank with Fuel to help with adding nutrient (vitamins, amino, etc) source once a week.  

[Nano sapiens]

^^ this...

 

Based on your description, feeding schedule and multiple filtration methods it sounds like you don't have enough organic/inorganic nutrients to keep the animals happy.  As for cyanobacteria, it can do well in this type of condition since it can fix it's own nitrogen.  But it also thrives in 'dirty' unbalanced aquaria, so either end of the extremes should be avoided.

 

You can either keep your current filtration and start to feed more (could try daily), or follow Micoastreefing's suggestion and cut way back (or eliminate) the chem filtration and keep your current feeding schedule (would be my personal preference).  Either way, you'll start to add the nutrients into the system that the animals need to thrive.

[chaostactics]

Took the biopellet out today, used chemi clean to eliminate the cyano, did a 30-40% water change, didnt add the purigen back in, changed mech filtration pad, will take phos ban out tonight or tomorrow. Will consider feeding more.

[OPtasia]

I'd hold off on the feeding more for a bit, until your system adjusts to it's current usual nutrient load without chemical media assistance. Monitor you nitrates and phosphates carefully. Purigen, carbon and other chemical media can strip up to 70% or more of dissolved organic compounds that pass through them. 

[chaostactics]

So pulled everything but the skimmer. No reactors no media no purigen ect. 

 

Params: Ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, and phosphate all 0. Temp 78-79, pH 8.1-8.3.

 

Water changes with redsea coral pro every 3-4 weeks. 

 

Flow is good, lighting is good, nutrient load is low, and yet i have to blow off aquascape and some corals a couple of times a week from cyano/red slime which grows in both high and medium flow areas there arent really any dead spots.

[mitten_reef]

58 minutes ago, chaostactics said:

So pulled everything but the skimmer. No reactors no media no purigen ect. 

 

Params: Ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, and phosphate all 0. Temp 78-79, pH 8.1-8.3.

 

Water changes with redsea coral pro every 3-4 weeks. 

 

Flow is good, lighting is good, nutrient load is low, and yet i have to blow off aquascape and some corals a couple of times a week from cyano/red slime which grows in both high and medium flow areas there arent really any dead spots.

Able to go 3-4 weeks without water change in a 40 gallon seems like a win to me. 

 

But yeah, if you still see and have to get rid of the red dusting around the rocks, I can see your concerns. Re-reading nanosapiens post above, what I gather might be that your tank still have some imbalance of nutrients? Maybe feed the fish and corals a little more? What about CUCs, are they not keeping up?

[chaostactics]

Cuc is is a a few snails and a few hermits. But i vacuum the sand bed with every water change and it doesn't cloud the water. And i feed only enough that the fish eat it before it falls to the bottom save one or two pellets. I turn off the return when feeding so nothing gets pulled into the rear chambers