Need Urgent Advice and/or Help As Soon As Possible!!!

[1Meshy2]

Hey guys, this is my very first post here, so please bear with me if it's in the wrong category or something. Alright, so I've been having these problems with my corals not being able to stay alive for more than a few months at a time. I've had the tank for about two years (29 gallon biocube), and I decided to try and start a reef tank about a year or so ago. I currently have a small kenya tree, GSP, and a few zoas around the tank, all gotten throughout this year. At first, they seemed to be doing well as they were growing and spreading, but then they all suddenly closed up and started to shrink and melt away. I do occasionally feed them (Kent Microvert), maybe once or twice a week. I'm not even really sure if they do benefit from the food or not, but I have been tempted to buy some CoralFrenzy or Reef Roids to see if that would be beneficial. Of the two patches of GSP that I have, only one of them seems to be doing fine at the moment, and out of all the zoas (I have three separate groups), only one of them grew a new head recently. I've been searching frantically on several different forums to see what my problem could possibly be, but have found no solutions yet :(. Anyways, here are my water params:

 

Ammonia- 0ppm

Nitrite- 0ppm

Nitrate- 0ppm

pH- between 8.2 and 8.4

Phosphate- .25ppm

Calcium- 380ppm

Alkalinity- 9°dKH

Magnesium- 1269ppm

Temp- about 80°F

Salinity- 1.026 

The test kits I use for the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, phosphate, calcium and alkalinity are all API. For magnesium, I use salifert. I'm thinking of getting better quality test kits instead of the API ones, but not sure which ones to get. It seems to be at a draw between salifert kits and Hanna (mainly for phosphate). Anyways, one of my main frustrations here is the phosphates. No matter what I do, I can NEVER make it less than .25ppm. I even added a refugium in the back of my tank, complete with chaeto, Purigen and Chemipure Elite. Also, I am aware that my calcium and magnesium levels are a bit low. I dose the tank with 2mL of Kent marine calcium and magnesium liquids every Monday, Wednesday and Friday, but if anyone else has a better dosing method, I'd be happy to hear it. 

The lights I have are the Current USA Orbit Marine LEDs, and they're on for 12 hours each day, and I use the regular Instant Ocean salt. Sorry if some of the details I've added were unnecessary, but I just wanted to add as many possible factors to the problem for you guys. I've also added some pictures of the tank itself to see what the corals look like and whatnot. Anyways, I hope you guys can give me some insight on what the problem might be, and what I could/should do!!! 🙂 Any help at all would be INCREDIBLY appreciated!!!

[ReefGoat]

I think you may find the missing link is getting those nitrates to around 5

[Tamberav]

I do believe better test kits would be a good idea. Nitrate at 0 is not really ideal for softies especially. I would try for 2-5ppm. 

 

I would not think the tank needs dosing yet, if ever. I have never bothered to dose a soft coral tank, I just do weekly water changes. 

 

 

 

 

[AbnormalReefer]

IMO every one of API’s test kits are ok for a ballpark estimate minus the phosphate test. Buy yourself either a Hanna checker or Salifert. Salifert while accurate can be hard to read though, so Hanna takes the struggle for that one. 

 

Your phosphate is high though. I’d recommend .06-.1 atleast since you’re running pretty basic corals. For mixed reef and SPS dominant you are looking at 0.01-0.02

 

I don’t know if GFO would be a good idea though. Softies prefer more nutrient rich tanks.

[LogicalReefs]

What I’d do if I was you is:

 

1. Stop feeding the microvert.

2. Check your water source and make sure it’s safe. If in doubt distilled water would do in a pinch. 

3. Not needed but I’d switch salts to Red Sea Salt or Fritz RPM. They provide excellent levels of calcium,mag, alk, etc. 

4. Don’t over feed your tank. If you have fish maybe feed every two days (only what they can eat in a minute or two). 

5. Take out the purigen and chemipure. If you are following a good feeding routine and water change once a week you should be great and don’t need those items.

 

Those would be the things I’d recommend to help start you off. 

 

[jmcdaniel0]

These guys are both spot on.  I recommend Red Sea coral pro for salt.   With that no dosing should be needed with regular water changes.   

 

I would get get a water change done to lower the phosphate number and go from there.

 

 

also,   I didn’t see, but what light are you using.

[banasophia]

If you want to bring your phosphates down you could check into Phosphate RX, though that phosphate level doesn’t seem high enough to me to be causing the issues. There’s a video about it in the link below. I just started using it a couple weeks ago so I don’t have much experience with it so far, but it might be of interest to research further. You do have to run a skimmer to use it though.

 

http://www.melevsreef.com/product/phosphate-rx

 

 

[Clown79]

A few things possibly going on. 1 corals continually dying, high phos, low nitrates.

 

 

Nitrates being at 0 is an issue but api often reads 0 when better kits like salifert would read 2.

 

For alk, nitrates, phos I would use better kits.

 

Dosing when not necessary can cause fluctuations leading to problems. You should only dose to replenish consumption and in a soft coral tank, it shouldn't be necessary.

 

380 ca is not a big  issue. It's still in normal range 

 

 

Here are some things to consider to figure out problems

 

What water are you using? 

 

Is there anything metal that may be rusting? Like magnet cleaners, a probe etc?

 

Anything being sprayed in the room like air fresheners?

 

Do you have an additional powerhead in the tank?

 

Have you tried using phosguard to reduce phos? Using it in small quantities can help.

Chemipure is fine to use but unfortunately the amount of gfo in it can quickly exhaust.

 

Purigen is great but doesn't do much for phos.

 

there is a cause of the high phos which is why it's not lowering.

 

Do you have fish in the tank?

 

Often causes of high nutrients is

 

Over feeding, not maintaining back chambers/filters, not taking care of the sand and rocks, using water that is not rodi or distilled. Sometimes the rocks used, leach phos.

 

 

[1Meshy2]

21 hours ago, jmcdaniel0 said:

These guys are both spot on.  I recommend Red Sea coral pro for salt.   With that no dosing should be needed with regular water changes.   

 

I would get get a water change done to lower the phosphate number and go from there.

 

 

also,   I didn’t see, but what light are you using.

I am using a light called Current USA Orbit Marine LEDs. I've heard that those lights were worth the money, so I went ahead and purchased them. 

[1Meshy2]

17 hours ago, Clown79 said:

A few things possibly going on. 1 corals continually dying, high phos, low nitrates.

 

 

Nitrates being at 0 is an issue but api often reads 0 when better kits like salifert would read 2.

 

For alk, nitrates, phos I would use better kits.

 

Dosing when not necessary can cause fluctuations leading to problems. You should only dose to replenish consumption and in a soft coral tank, it shouldn't be necessary.

 

380 ca is not a big  issue. It's still in normal range 

 

 

Here are some things to consider to figure out problems

 

What water are you using? 

 

Is there anything metal that may be rusting? Like magnet cleaners, a probe etc?

 

Anything being sprayed in the room like air fresheners?

 

Do you have an additional powerhead in the tank?

 

Have you tried using phosguard to reduce phos? Using it in small quantities can help.

Chemipure is fine to use but unfortunately the amount of gfo in it can quickly exhaust.

 

Purigen is great but doesn't do much for phos.

 

there is a cause of the high phos which is why it's not lowering.

 

Do you have fish in the tank?

 

Often causes of high nutrients is

 

Over feeding, not maintaining back chambers/filters, not taking care of the sand and rocks, using water that is not rodi or distilled. Sometimes the rocks used, leach phos.

 

 

Thanks for your input man. So, I should probably stop dosing altogether I'm assuming then, right? Also, I use RODI water from a local fish aquarium near me, I've checked if there's anything that could be possibly rusting, and have found nothing (most of my equipment is somewhat new), I don't allow anything to be sprayed near or around the tank, I used to have two powerheads in the tank, but one of them stopped working about a month ago (I'll be buying a new one soon), yes, I've used phosguard in the past, but it didn't do much for the phosphates (really surprised me, I thought it would work), and I currently have only three damsels in the tank (feed them flakes and pellets every other day). I do clean the chambers every once in a while, and I sometimes use a vacuum to vacuum up debris from the sandbed. As for the rocks, if they are leaching phosphate, how could I possibly fix that? 

[1Meshy2]

22 hours ago, AbnormalReeder said:

IMO every one of API’s test kits are ok for a ballpark estimate minus the phosphate test. Buy yourself either a Hanna checker or Salifert. Salifert while accurate can be hard to read though, so Hanna takes the struggle for that one. 

 

Your phosphate is high though. I’d recommend .06-.1 atleast since you’re running pretty basic corals. For mixed reef and SPS dominant you are looking at 0.01-0.02

 

I don’t know if GFO would be a good idea though. Softies prefer more nutrient rich tanks.

Do you have any recommendations as to what I should do for the phosphate? Even with water changes (in the tank and back chambers), the phosphates never seem to lower down.. 

[1Meshy2]

22 hours ago, Tamberav said:

I do believe better test kits would be a good idea. Nitrate at 0 is not really ideal for softies especially. I would try for 2-5ppm. 

 

I would not think the tank needs dosing yet, if ever. I have never bothered to dose a soft coral tank, I just do weekly water changes. 

 

 

 

 

2-5ppm? People have always told me that the lower they are, the better, which is quite the opposite to what you're saying. I'll try to aim for that amount anyways, so I appreciate the advice. As for the dosing, should I stop it altogether? I thought that my levels were a bit low so that's why I dosed, but if it's not necessary, then I'll stop it. 

[LogicalReefs]

24 minutes ago, 1Meshy2 said:

2-5ppm? People have always told me that the lower they are, the better, which is quite the opposite to what you're saying. I'll try to aim for that amount anyways, so I appreciate the advice. As for the dosing, should I stop it altogether? I thought that my levels were a bit low so that's why I dosed, but if it's not necessary, then I'll stop it. 

I know that people with a lot of LPS and zoas that are thriving  you want nitrates around 5-10. Too clean of water is not good. That’s where mine are and the corals are great. As long as your alk is stable, phosphates are in check and calcium and mag are at good numbers you should be fine.

 

Also a good salt mix will get you the numbers you are looking for. Regular water changes will replenish what your corals use. So dosing shouldn’t be necessary unless your corals are pulling the supplements out of the water too fast between water changes. 

[AbnormalReefer]

18 minutes ago, 1Meshy2 said:

Do you have any recommendations as to what I should do for the phosphate? Even with water changes (in the tank and back chambers), the phosphates never seem to lower down.. 

Are you using RODI water for water changes? Tap water is phosphate laden. Even regular RO water contains trace phosphates (0.03-0.04 ppm). Only RODI is 0 from what I’ve heard.

 

How much are you feeding and what fish/inverts are in the tank? Do you have a protein skimmer or sump? 

 

If I were you I’d try a little bit of GFO (not enough to exhaust the phosphate completely, as softies like nutrient richer waters) combined with daily 30% water changes with RODI water until you are satisfied with the phosphate level. Make sure to vacuum the sandbed too! 

[1Meshy2]

13 minutes ago, AbnormalReeder said:

Are you using RODI water for water changes? Tap water is phosphate laden. Even regular RO water contains trace phosphates (0.03-0.04 ppm). Only RODI is 0 from what I’ve heard.

 

How much are you feeding and what fish/inverts are in the tank? Do you have a protein skimmer or sump? 

 

If I were you I’d try a little bit of GFO (not enough to exhaust the phosphate completely, as softies like nutrient richer waters) combined with daily 30% water changes with RODI water until you are satisfied with the phosphate level. Make sure to vacuum the sandbed too! 

Yes, I do use RODI water from my local fish store. I've never trusted tap water, so I always just buy the water. I have three damsels in the tank (well, two damsels and a clarkii), 5 red hermit crabs and 3 snails (1 nassarius, 1 turbo, 1 trochus). I have a small biocube protein skimmer (works fairly well, I have to clean the gunk from it every few days), and I do vacuum the bed! I've heard vacuuming it too much isn't very good though, is that true?

[1Meshy2]

23 minutes ago, LogicalReefs said:

I know that people with a lot of LPS and zoas that are thriving  you want nitrates around 5-10. Too clean of water is not good. That’s where mine are and the corals are great. As long as your alk is stable, phosphates are in check and calcium and mag are at good numbers you should be fine.

 

Also a good salt mix will get you the numbers you are looking for. Regular water changes will replenish what your corals use. So dosing shouldn’t be necessary unless your corals are pulling the supplements out of the water too fast between water changes. 

I see. How should I go about making the nitrates become higher then? Without making them TOO high and creating an algae problem, of course. 

[Tamberav]

Nitrate at 0 is probably some old misconception people made years ago, Nitrate and PO4 are required for corals to survive/grow but too much is bad as well. I clean the sand bed with every water change, some people remove it entirely and wash it and replace. No harm. It traps a lot of snail/fish poop and could certainly cause Po4 issues. I'm sure there is plenty of PO4 in the coral food you are feeding as well.

 

 

[LogicalReefs]

11 minutes ago, 1Meshy2 said:

I see. How should I go about making the nitrates become higher then? Without making them TOO high and creating an algae problem, of course. 

Take out your purigen and chemipure. Make sure you have a good biological filtration and don’t over feed. With a 20%  water change a week you should see them about that high. 

 

Ideally I would run my tank like this. 

 

1. Use marine pure bio spheres in back chambers to help with biological filtration. 

2. Use Bio-Spira to help jump start the biological filtration. 

3. Do a 50% water change with your tank and then 25% a week later followed by 20% water changes every week.

 

Feed your fish every two days, have a clean up crew that won’t starve itself (don’t over do it with a clean up crew) and you should have a thriving tank.

 

Also what power are you running your lights at? Have you changed the ramp up recently? Maybe you shocked your corals?

[Clown79]

1 hour ago, 1Meshy2 said:

Thanks for your input man. So, I should probably stop dosing altogether I'm assuming then, right? Also, I use RODI water from a local fish aquarium near me, I've checked if there's anything that could be possibly rusting, and have found nothing (most of my equipment is somewhat new), I don't allow anything to be sprayed near or around the tank, I used to have two powerheads in the tank, but one of them stopped working about a month ago (I'll be buying a new one soon), yes, I've used phosguard in the past, but it didn't do much for the phosphates (really surprised me, I thought it would work), and I currently have only three damsels in the tank (feed them flakes and pellets every other day). I do clean the chambers every once in a while, and I sometimes use a vacuum to vacuum up debris from the sandbed. As for the rocks, if they are leaching phosphate, how could I possibly fix that? 

I would test the water from the aquarium store. 

 

Not all stores actually sell rodi and some stores don't change the filters on the system enough. A lot of ppl find that their problem is due to the quality of water.

 

Phosguard needs testing while being used(every 4 days) and changing once phos levels rise so in order for it to work properly, it needs to be replaced as soon as tests show levels rising.

 

 

Vacuuming sand with every water change is very important and prevents a lot of issues including phos.

 

Siphoning the back chambers every other week also helps as a lot of detritus builds in them.

 

What other media are you using and how frequently is it changed?

 

Some things that will help you with the phos.

 

 is find out if the quality of the water you are buying is actually good. It needs to be tested. If it's not pure, I would change to distilled water which is pure.

 

Use salifert for nitrates and phos. These are more accurate and lower range kits.

Api phos is fine for fw but not low enough for sw and the nitrate test seems to always read 0 even when other kits don't.

 

Start cleaning your sand bed regularly and add the chamber cleaning more often.

 

Feed corals 1 time a week. They still need nutrients.

[1Meshy2]

11 minutes ago, LogicalReefs said:

Take out your purigen and chemipure. Make sure you have a good biological filtration and don’t over feed. With a 20%  water change a week you should see them about that high. 

 

Ideally I would run my tank like this. 

 

1. Use marine pure bio spheres in back chambers to help with biological filtration. 

2. Use Bio-Spira to help jump start the biological filtration. 

3. Do a 50% water change with your tank and then 25% a week later followed by 20% water changes every week.

 

Feed your fish every two days, have a clean up crew that won’t starve itself (don’t over do it with a clean up crew) and you should have a thriving tank.

 

Also what power are you running your lights at? Have you changed the ramp up recently? Maybe you shocked your corals?

I used to have bio spheres in the back, but pulled them out after being told countless times that they were just going to trap a ton of debris and make my water dirtier than it should be. As for the bacteria, I don't use bio spira, but I do use these two products called "Nite Out ii" and "Special Blend" (both from the Microbe-Lift brand). For my lights, since I use LEDs (I wrote what kind of lights I have in the post), I have my reds at 100%, greens at 65%, blues at 100%, and whites at 40%. I bought these lights a few months ago, so I don't think they'd be wilting because of shock.  

[A Little Blue]

4 minutes ago, 1Meshy2 said:

I used to have bio spheres in the back, but pulled them out after being told countless times that they were just going to trap a ton of debris and make my water dirtier than it should be. As for the bacteria, I don't use bio spira, but I do use these two products called "Nite Out ii" and "Special Blend" (both from the Microbe-Lift brand). For my lights, since I use LEDs (I wrote what kind of lights I have in the post), I have my reds at 100%, greens at 65%, blues at 100%, and whites at 40%. I bought these lights a few months ago, so I don't think they'd be wilting because of shock.  

Special Blend is OK product. I have used spheres from MarinePure for a looooong time without ANY issues. Turn reds/greens way down (probably under %10 or even lower). 

[1Meshy2]

19 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

I would test the water from the aquarium store.

Not all stores actually sell rodi and some stores don't change the filters on the system enough. A lot of ppl find that their problem is due to the quality of water.

 

Phosguard needs testing while being used and changing once phos levels rise so in order for it to work properly, it needs to be replaced as soon as tests show levels rising as well as the cause being corrected or else it's just a band aid.

 

If the quality of your purchased water isn't good, then waterchanges won't be effective.

 

 

Vacuuming sand with every water change is very important and prevents a lot of issues.

 

Siphoning the back chambers every other week also helps as a lot of detritus builds in the.

 

What other media are you using and how frequently is it changed?

I did ask the store owner once though if their water is RODI, and he had said that it was, but I guess it would be worth to ask for the water to be tested prior to me actually buying it, or I could just test it myself. With my phosguard, no matter how long it was in there, I never got the levels to get any lower. They didn't rise, nor did they lower. I don't use other media other the chaeto, purigen and chemi pure. I do, however, use different types of filter pads. One pad is fused with carbon (black colored) and the other is used to lower phosphates (green colored). I have been thinking that maybe these two pads could be contributing to the problem though, so I've thought about just buying regular filter floss instead. 

[1Meshy2]

4 minutes ago, A Little Blue said:

Special Blend is OK product. I have used spheres from MarinePure for a looooong time without ANY issues. Turn reds/greens way down (probably under %10 or even lower). 

Are there any products that are better than special blend, or is it just not necessary? As for the lights, I had figured that something would be off with them. I was never really sure what any of the colors' percentages should be, so I just winged it (but I shouldn't have). If I were to use the spheres you mentioned, where would I put them in my refugium? Would I have to take out the chaeto? 

[LogicalReefs]

7 minutes ago, 1Meshy2 said:

Are there any products that are better than special blend, or is it just not necessary? As for the lights, I had figured that something would be off with them. I was never really sure what any of the colors' percentages should be, so I just winged it (but I shouldn't have). If I were to use the spheres you mentioned, where would I put them in my refugium? Would I have to take out the chaeto? 

Take out the chaeto. You shouldn’t have a big bio load big enough to warrant chateo if you do regular water changes.

[1Meshy2]

3 minutes ago, LogicalReefs said:

Take out the chaeto. You shouldn’t have a big bio load big enough to warrant chateo if you do regular water changes.

Man, I feel almost as if everything that I've been told in the past has been wrong, and I've been stuck doing the wrong things! So, basically what you're telling me then is to take out everything in my back chambers? Chaeto, purigen AND chemipure?