Smithii Mantis Shrimp beginners discussion

[MrSquiggle]

Ten things about this discussion forum on care and lifestyle of a smithii, (Purple Spot Mantis Shrimp, Gonodactylus smithii)

 

1:  Myself and many of us are new to reef tanks (not all of us)

2:  Myself and many of us will be new to mantis shrimps (not all of us)

3:  We have all made some mistakes in the past and will likely make some more

4:  Lets be open to all ideas, info and discussion, and endeavour to obtain a viewpoint based on consensus and verification

5:  Our focus is on the health and well being of our smithii, if that means something like low light, then so be it, if that means no corals then so be it etc etc (these are not set in stone and may not work for everyone)

6:  We will continue to research until we know heaps and then will continue some more

7:  Please keep discussion respectful and kind, no one here wants to harm their smithii

8:  Please share photos and videos to support your question and or answer if possible

9:  If you have experience, good or bad, don't be afraid to share it here, you will not be judged unless your intent is malicious

10:  There is no ten, as this discussion will evolve organically, I want to offer no rules other than the obvious guidelines  above.

 

Introducing Shrimpy, my smithii...

 

 

I have only had Shrimpy for about 3 weeks, we don't know his age or sex.  The aquarium we got him from did not brief us on care etc etc so my wife and I are learning as we go...

 

I will ask many questions in the coming weeks and I truly appreciate all replies.

 

First up;

 

When you have a smithii and his or her lair is not large, about the size of a large closed fist (see reef rock above) would you limit light to assist in the process of molting?  If so how dark and for how long?

 

Thanks in advance team nano-reef!

 

(original discussion on Shrimpy occurred here:  

Please check the above forum also for ideas related to smithii Mantis Shrimps 🙂

[MrSquiggle]

 

Please watch as it will give context to my question above.

[Tamberav]

Had a smithii years back... Received him by accident... I never changed the light cycle and his tank was fairly small... Around 7 gallons and he had no problem burrowing out an area and molting. I'm not sure they care about darkness to molt... I would assume they close their burrows to protect themselves. 

[MrSquiggle]

21 hours ago, Tamberav said:

Had a smithii years back... Received him by accident... I never changed the light cycle and his tank was fairly small... Around 7 gallons and he had no problem burrowing out an area and molting. I'm not sure they care about darkness to molt... I would assume they close their burrows to protect themselves. 

Thanks Reef Nerd,

 

Much appreciated.

 

Shrimpy did just that and burrowed a lair out of a rock (more like hard pumice really) and has not been seen for 5 days now. 

 

Can I ask how long your smithii used to take to moult and did you have any issues at all during the process?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

[Tamberav]

1 hour ago, MrSquiggle said:

Thanks Reef Nerd,

 

Much appreciated.

 

Shrimpy did just that and burrowed a lair out of a rock (more like hard pumice really) and has not been seen for 5 days now. 

 

Can I ask how long your smithii used to take to moult and did you have any issues at all during the process?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

Molts went faster when he was smaller... But two weeks is not unusual. No issues but most mantis do seem to eventually perish during a molt. Molting is actually not a simple process and as they get older it gets riskier. Keep the water clean and stable is the best thing you can do. 

[MrSquiggle]

18 hours ago, Tamberav said:

 

Molts went faster when he was smaller... But two weeks is not unusual. No issues but most mantis do seem to eventually perish during a molt. Molting is actually not a simple process and as they get older it gets riskier. Keep the water clean and stable is the best thing you can do. 

Thanks - noted.  :)

[MrSquiggle]

Update on Shrimpy.  So we had started to really worry.  He was 13 days into the molt and we were freaking out.  So we decided to poke in the entrance to his rock lair.  Expecting the usual strike of the feeding pincers.  Nothing.  No movement seen, felt or heard.  We assumed the worst.  We were going to remove and bury him or her.  I could not bring myself to do it that night so we both agreed that we would the next day.  Turns out we had to leave early to go out so by this time we are taking 15 days without food and we had resolved that it was water temperature issues that killed Shrimpy.  To our astonishment when we walked in the door we found Shrimpy had partially rebuild the entrance to the lair.  To say this was unexpected is an understatement!  I quickly grabbed a Lance fish tail and poked it into the remaining hole and whoosh, it was dragged in.  No doubt Shrimpy was peckish. 

 

In hindsight I expect that Shrimpy was hardening right when we assumed the worst and was therefore not able or willing to fight off the pincer invasion. 

 

Wow

 

Keeping a smithii sure has proved to be an emotional roller-coaster 🎢 

 

Now we note Shrimpy has again shut up shop.  

 

We now wait to see Shrimpy again.

 

[Tamberav]

Please never dig them out/disturb during a molt, two weeks is a normal time frame for them to be gone and if the molt was more difficult, expect longer. They can go month+ without food so food is not an issue at all.

 

By the way, be careful not to overfeed, they will take it and then bury it. It's not so great for the water quality. 

[MrSquiggle]

2 hours ago, Tamberav said:

Please never dig them out/disturb during a molt, two weeks is a normal time frame for them to be gone and if the molt was more difficult, expect longer. They can go month+ without food so food is not an issue at all.

 

By the way, be careful not to overfeed, they will take it and then bury it. It's not so great for the water quality. 

Thank you for this - I will ask you before making any more silly mistakes.  From most reading we had done anything more than 2 weeks was danger time.  Yet as I said to myself yesterday, if they don't make it then that is that and disturbing early would do more harm than good.  So again, lesson learned.

 

Shrimpy was still in his or her cave when we opened the door.  We assumed dead.  What do you imagine was happening at this time?  Considering this was 2 weeks in.  And also we have since come to believe that Shrimpy is older than we first imagined as he is about 9-10 cms / 3.4-3.6 inches from eyeballs to tail tip when out stretched

 

According to http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/arthropoda/crustacea/malacostraca/eumalacostraca/royslist/species.php?name=g_smithii it would seem that he or she is perhaps an adult?

 

In terms of feeding, as mentioned we had not feed in 2 weeks - and then when I did yesterday it was the tail end of a very small lance fish.  We will go with every 5 days when Shrimpy comes back out.  Does this sound appropriate considering size etc

 

After the molt is complete (assuming this is a molt) when would you expect so called normal exploring/foraging etc to recommence?  Is it typical for a smithii to essentially stay "indoors" most of the time?

 

Here is a video I made showing size of Shrimpy (video starts when he is seen stretched out), noting the rock he or she darts inside is about 15-18 cm wide.   So Shrimpy is larger than we first thought.

 

Video also shows water is fine for now...? (test results at the start of the video).

 

https://youtu.be/FONZbStlB9g?t=106

 

https://youtu.be/FONZbStlB9g

 

Thanks in advance and thank you for your guidance so far!

[MrSquiggle]

Update:

 

Shrimpy made it though his first Moult fine!  He is a happy little Mantis!

 

Stoked!

[mndfreeze]

I've never had a smithii but was considering one this time around.  I did however keep a ternatensis about 8 years ago when I first got into reef keeping.  Many of the mantis species share similiar traits and behaviors. 

 

It's common for many of them to stay mostly in their burrow with just their eyeballs or heads sticking out.  Don't EVER dig it out unless you have seen no activity for like a month, you test your water and it had a huge spike of ammonia/nitrate/etc, something to indicate it died beyond just not being seen.

 

It can take a few months for the mantis to feel at home in the tank.  If you have no other critters in there with it like fish it won't be too long of a time frame.  Eventually you will see it start to leave its cave a bit more and explore.  Especially if you watch your feedings and don't feed to much.  Mantis love to bury extra food for later inside their burrow or under a rock nearby and it will just rot and mess your water up.

 

For my ternatensis, since its a high light coral species, I had a proper reef tank going which meant I also needed to have a CUC of snails and hermits to keep algae and stuff down.  Eventualy he would murder them all, but I fed him little chunks of frozen silversides off a wooden skewer, and would get him a live feeder crab once every 2 weeks and that kept him active as well as healthy.  It was really enjoyable to watch him get all hulk smash on it as well.  

 

I also kept a mix of different species and sizes of snails.  I noticed he wouldn't mess with the largest turbo snails for instance, but would destroy nerites and astrea.  Ceriths eventually would go too but he definitely preferred one snail over another.  Hermits were the same.  I would restock my cuc members about once a month.  Since he slowly killed them they did their job and he wouldn't hunt and kill them unless he wanted a snack.   

 

I eventually had to find him a new home as my new dream tank cracked during a sudden move I was forced into.  Sad days.  He lived another 5 years or so in a large sump in an established system of a local reefer.  She would often take pics and videos for me with updates over the years, including when he finally died many many years later. 

 

Mantis are some of the most amazing creatures.  Mine would chase a laser pointer, and he would come out when I watched TV or played video games and just sit outside his rock watching the TV. They are far more intelligent than people think IMO.  He never attacked me once when I needed to clean the tank, and eventually got to the point where he didn't even get scared when I was around or had my hands in the tank rearranging coral and stuff.

 

RIP GOOGLY.

 

[StinkyBunny]

One issue crustaceans have during a molt that makes it difficult for them is low iodide.

[mndfreeze]

Bluezoo has a smithii and 2 peacocks for sale right now...

[MrSquiggle]

On 10/21/2018 at 4:19 AM, StinkyBunny said:

One issue crustaceans have during a molt that makes it difficult for them is low iodide.

Thanks for the info StinkyBunny!  Great to know.  I am looking to purchase some water testing kits shortly so will factor this in!

 

Appreciate the comment! 

[MrSquiggle]

On 10/18/2018 at 11:05 PM, mndfreeze said:

I've never had a smithii but was considering one this time around.  I did however keep a ternatensis about 8 years ago when I first got into reef keeping.  Many of the mantis species share similiar traits and behaviors. 

 

It's common for many of them to stay mostly in their burrow with just their eyeballs or heads sticking out.  Don't EVER dig it out unless you have seen no activity for like a month, you test your water and it had a huge spike of ammonia/nitrate/etc, something to indicate it died beyond just not being seen.

 

It can take a few months for the mantis to feel at home in the tank.  If you have no other critters in there with it like fish it won't be too long of a time frame.  Eventually you will see it start to leave its cave a bit more and explore.  Especially if you watch your feedings and don't feed to much.  Mantis love to bury extra food for later inside their burrow or under a rock nearby and it will just rot and mess your water up.

 

For my ternatensis, since its a high light coral species, I had a proper reef tank going which meant I also needed to have a CUC of snails and hermits to keep algae and stuff down.  Eventualy he would murder them all, but I fed him little chunks of frozen silversides off a wooden skewer, and would get him a live feeder crab once every 2 weeks and that kept him active as well as healthy.  It was really enjoyable to watch him get all hulk smash on it as well.  

 

I also kept a mix of different species and sizes of snails.  I noticed he wouldn't mess with the largest turbo snails for instance, but would destroy nerites and astrea.  Ceriths eventually would go too but he definitely preferred one snail over another.  Hermits were the same.  I would restock my cuc members about once a month.  Since he slowly killed them they did their job and he wouldn't hunt and kill them unless he wanted a snack.   

 

I eventually had to find him a new home as my new dream tank cracked during a sudden move I was forced into.  Sad days.  He lived another 5 years or so in a large sump in an established system of a local reefer.  She would often take pics and videos for me with updates over the years, including when he finally died many many years later. 

 

Mantis are some of the most amazing creatures.  Mine would chase a laser pointer, and he would come out when I watched TV or played video games and just sit outside his rock watching the TV. They are far more intelligent than people think IMO.  He never attacked me once when I needed to clean the tank, and eventually got to the point where he didn't even get scared when I was around or had my hands in the tank rearranging coral and stuff.

 

RIP GOOGLY.

 

RIP Googly - what a great read thank you very much.

 

We have found that Shrimpy is starting to explore again.  He knocks down his lair door and has a lookout / look about.  We then hear him hammering away at things.  As he now shares his tank with 6 blue/green Chromis we have been expecting him to test the waters and perhaps take one or two out.  The trick now will be to get the feeding schedule right for all occupants! 

[mndfreeze]

How big is your tank?  Mantis are super messy eaters and they also are notorious for stashing uneaten food in their burrow to save for later.  IMO you need to watch your water quality params carefully, especially since you added a school of fish.  I wouldn't add any more fish unless you have a large tank.

 

Chances are he won't kill em unless he happens to get the perfect moment and is really hungry.  Smashers tend to leave fish alone for the most part.  When they are sleeping is when they are most vulnerable to him but that's not very likely if he has other CUC prey and stuff around to snack on.

 

Googly never messed with any of my fish.  He never got my pistol shrimp either.  I thought he had died before I even got googly but what a surprise when my tank cracked and I found him when removing my rock.

 

 

[MrSquiggle]

On 10/26/2018 at 1:05 PM, mndfreeze said:

How big is your tank?  Mantis are super messy eaters and they also are notorious for stashing uneaten food in their burrow to save for later.  IMO you need to watch your water quality params carefully, especially since you added a school of fish.  I wouldn't add any more fish unless you have a large tank.

 

Chances are he won't kill em unless he happens to get the perfect moment and is really hungry.  Smashers tend to leave fish alone for the most part.  When they are sleeping is when they are most vulnerable to him but that's not very likely if he has other CUC prey and stuff around to snack on.

 

Googly never messed with any of my fish.  He never got my pistol shrimp either.  I thought he had died before I even got googly but what a surprise when my tank cracked and I found him when removing my rock.

 

 

My tank is a AquaOne NanoReef 35...

 

I have only the Smithii and now 6 Blue Green Chromis...  That will do for this size.  🙂

 

I really wanted to pickup a pistol that came up for sale locally but resisted the urge.  I have much to learn before building/expanding  🙂

 

On another note.... What do you guys make of this?

 

 

[mcs]

Glad to hear your mantis is safe and sound. They are the best, great fun to watch especially once they get used to you.

[BlennyBoi]

the answer will prolly be no, but are there any reef safe mantis? i want to give one a shot in my 34g reef (other than a tiny hitchhiker mantis)

[mcs]

5 hours ago, BlennyBoi said:

the answer will prolly be no, but are there any reef safe mantis? i want to give one a shot in my 34g reef (other than a tiny hitchhiker mantis)

Id consider the same one i have the Gonodactylaceus ternatensis.

I have him in a reef tank which is currently only in its early stages, but he hasn't touched any of the corals.

Cheers Mark.

 

[mndfreeze]

The little guy definitely has the shape of a mantis but its impossible to tell from the video.  If it is then you will need to put it in a separate tank or shrimpy is going to murderface it.

 

[BlennyBoi]

21 hours ago, mcs said:

Id consider the same one i have the Gonodactylaceus ternatensis.

I have him in a reef tank which is currently only in its early stages, but he hasn't touched any of the corals.

Cheers Mark.

 

will they eat smaller fish, hermits and ornamental shrimp? thats my biggest concern.

[MrSquiggle]

2 hours ago, BlennyBoi said:

will they eat smaller fish, hermits and ornamental shrimp? thats my biggest concern.

 

Yep.  Nothing is safe from a smacking, although many will tolerate all three from the account of many.

 

Shrimpy snacked on one the first day we introduced 4 Blue Green Chromis . We started with too few (beginners mistake), lost one and then moved up to the min of 6.  This immediately stopped the bullying between the Chromis AND Shrimpy just watches em now (thus far).  Probably thought "that was just a fish, no threat" after 123ing one the first night.

 

 

[BlennyBoi]

16 hours ago, MrSquiggle said:

 

Yep.  Nothing is safe from a smacking, although many will tolerate all three from the account of many.

 

Shrimpy snacked on one the first day we introduced 4 Blue Green Chromis . We started with too few (beginners mistake), lost one and then moved up to the min of 6.  This immediately stopped the bullying between the Chromis AND Shrimpy just watches em now (thus far).  Probably thought "that was just a fish, no threat" after 123ing one the first night.

 

 

ok, thanks. guess i wont be getting a mantis then!

[MrSquiggle]

Nov 2018 Tank update:

 

Shrimpy is doing well and now comes out to say "Hi" almost every day!  He is starting to feel safe in his new home me thinks.

 

Tank contents:

• 1 x gonodactylus smithii (Purple Spot Mantis Shrimp)
• 6 x Chromis viridis (Blue Green Chromis)
• ALOT of sand, and about 3.5kg of reef rock.

Water Temp: 26.7*C / 80.2*F