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Calicum High, PH Low


TheDeltaFlight

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TheDeltaFlight

I was out of town the last 2 weeks for work (the trip wasn't planned, and was told about it 3 days in advanced). My roommate was kind enough to look after the tank, but messed up. Not sure what exactly happened, but I think he dosed too much calcium, I was in the process of raising it as it was ~400PPM and I explained how to test and told him to test daily....

 

Anyways, Calcium is @ 520PPM and PH is at 7.6 (I've also been trying to raise PH but no luck. I don't have a skimmer and I just picked up some liquid Seachem PH Buffer.

Other Params:

Salitiy 1.025

ALK 11

Nitrate 2PPM

Phosphate (don't have test kit, but have noticed the last 3 weeks that I have a small amount of cyano on the sand bed. Tank is aprox. 3 1/2 months old.)

 

I just got back last night and I already did a 5 gallon water change (15g total system). I just checked now (24 hours later) and my Parameters haven't changed. Any advice? I have already noticed my Monti is started to bleach around the edges and lost color, Zoas aren't fully opened, and GSP is completely retracted.

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I don’t ever check for PH, trying to manipulate it can do more harm than good.  I’ve had my calcium reach that high, just let it fall naturally.

 

Maybe cyano uses phos but I had undetectable phos for MONTHS with bits of cyano—IMO it’s more a bacterial imbalance.

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23 hours ago, TheDeltaFlight said:

Calcium is @ 520PPM

 

Phosphate (don't have test kit, but have noticed the last 3 weeks that I have a small amount of cyano on the sand bed. Tank is aprox. 3 1/2 months old.)

 

I just got back last night and I already did a 5 gallon water change (15g total system). I just checked now (24 hours later) and my Parameters haven't changed. Any advice? I have already noticed my Monti is started to bleach around the edges and lost color, Zoas aren't fully opened, and GSP is completely retracted.

Elevated calcium isn't a big deal – but it CAN cause a growth spurt.

 

If your phosphates are essentially zero, as suggested by the coral bleaching and retracted polyps, and appearance of cyano, then I suspect the growth spurt plus your water changes (which are dropping po4 even lower) are the source of the bleaching problem.  

 

Check this article out:

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

 

Image from the article....check out the difference in corals raised in low phosphate ("LP") conditions vs the ones in high phosphate:

(H=high,L=low,P=phosphate,N=nitrate)

image.png.6ac2086e9dcf2af7b1905c7dbdd2b57c.png 

 

Ideally you can add some phosphate fertilizer right now to stop the damage.  You'll need a test kit to monitor your levels and calculate doses for at least a few days/weeks until things look like they're growing again.

 

23 hours ago, TheDeltaFlight said:

PH is at 7.6 (I've also been trying to raise PH but no luck.

Anything you've done in attempting to tweak pH is also potentially part of the problem you're seeing.   Like @Aurortpa said, you may freely ignore your pH level...as long as other params are fine, it'll be fine whatever it is.  🙂

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2 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Ideally you can add some phosphate fertilizer right now to stop the damage.

Or start feeding frozen foods more heavily.  Might as well get the benefits of feeding the tank while also adding phosphates. 

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15 hours ago, paneubert said:

Or start feeding frozen foods more heavily.  Might as well get the benefits of feeding the tank while also adding phosphates. 

If the OP thinks the tank needs more food outside the question of this problem, then I agree that it's a good idea to adjust the amount of food going in. 

 

Otherwise, adding the dose of phosphates needed along with a big pile of extra nutrients (i.e. food) is just asking for a cyano bloom.  So I don't recommend feeding in order to address this issue.

 

Supplementing directly with (e.g.) potassium phosphate is better in most cases like this because it can be measured and dosed immediatly to a predictable level.  Also, neither potassium nor phosphates are harmful even if overdosed.  

 

Measuring and getting a predictable level is almost impossible to do with food.  Additionally with food there will be a delay from a day to days before the nutrients will become generally available, and the amounts finally available will depend on what used the food first.  Even if it's the coral that eats it, the nutrients will go to the animal first, when it the dino's that actually need it the most/first.

 

If you have corals bleaching or receding, you want the immediate effect that directly-available phosphates will give you.  These nutrients go to the symbiont first, directly relieving the source of the "problem".  The coral animal will also have access.

 

$0.02

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TheDeltaFlight
On 9/26/2018 at 5:53 PM, mcarroll said:

Elevated calcium isn't a big deal – but it CAN cause a growth spurt.

 

If your phosphates are essentially zero, as suggested by the coral bleaching and retracted polyps, and appearance of cyano, then I suspect the growth spurt plus your water changes (which are dropping po4 even lower) are the source of the bleaching problem.  

 

Check this article out:

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

 

Image from the article....check out the difference in corals raised in low phosphate ("LP") conditions vs the ones in high phosphate:

(H=high,L=low,P=phosphate,N=nitrate)

image.png.6ac2086e9dcf2af7b1905c7dbdd2b57c.png 

 

Ideally you can add some phosphate fertilizer right now to stop the damage.  You'll need a test kit to monitor your levels and calculate doses for at least a few days/weeks until things look like they're growing again.

 

Anything you've done in attempting to tweak pH is also potentially part of the problem you're seeing.   Like @Aurortpa said, you may freely ignore your pH level...as long as other params are fine, it'll be fine whatever it is.  🙂

Thank you for the information. I read the article but I'm still just a little confused.

 

So just to confirm I read the article right, having extremely low Phosphate and Nitrates could be the problem? I just tested my Nitrates and they are at 0ppm now. I still can't test phosphates, I just ordered a test kit.

 

Is something like this Monopotassium Phosphate Fertilizer from Amazon something I should order to help raise phosphates? What is an appropriate level I should raise the phosphates to and will this cause a algae bloom?

 

And I should also mention I will stop dosing PH buffer as you stated that could also be part of the problem. 

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5 hours ago, TheDeltaFlight said:

So just to confirm I read the article right, having extremely low Phosphate and Nitrates could be the problem?

Right.   Same seems to be true for any permutation of low phosphate condition.  When you dose for this, make sure you take care of phosphates first before nitrates.

 

I'm not sure about the dosing instructions for the chem you mentioned, but I'm sure it'll work if you can figure it out.

 

Seachem and Brightwell (prolly others) make solutions prepared for the purpose, with appropriate instructions on the bottle.

 

If we can presume your phosphates are at least near-zero, I'd simply calculate a dose to take your tank volume up to 0.03 ppm (PO4) and dose it asap....even if you don't have the test kit yet.  (Higher levels won't hurt if your levels were actually non-zero to start with.)

 

You might consider getting a bottle of nitrate fert. as well to balance things out in the short term.  Hopefully feeding will be adequate going forward and you won't have to dose very long to keep positive levels.   If you have any "extra" anti-nutrient filtration or media, I'd take it offline.

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