Why such a big difference in coral prices between vendors?

[mitten_reef]

6 minutes ago, Reeferadicto said:

Now that there’s a ban on Indonesia prices have really gone up !!!

just last week My lfs sold a 2 head frogspawn for $200

not worth $100 per head, ban or not.  Also imagine how many pieces average hobbyists brought back in for trade, and frogspawn and hammer are some of the faster growers IME, even though I don't have any at the moment.  Maybe I should look into getting some, and abandon ship on Acros before a major heartache.

[skyscraper2290]

One LFS near me has a huge frogspawn and hammer coral and they charge $75 for a single head of it. Their limited frag options start at $40 each and I never see any gone. Quite a few of the LFS here have good options for for $5-$20 frags so that’s where I will be going for coral. Or salt critters when they have sales of course haha

[Clown79]

1 hour ago, Reeferadicto said:

Now that there’s a ban on Indonesia prices have really gone up !!!

just last week My lfs sold a 2 head frogspawn for $200

I was just at a small coral show. Most of the vendors are small businesses and 1 guy wanted $450 for a 1 torch. 

 

I thought it was a bit ridiculous.

 

Sps here are the cheaper corals. Always on sale.

[Clown79]

1 hour ago, micoastreefing said:

not worth $100 per head, ban or not.  Also imagine how many pieces average hobbyists brought back in for trade, and frogspawn and hammer are some of the faster growers IME, even though I don't have any at the moment.  Maybe I should look into getting some, and abandon ship on Acros before a major heartache.

They grow fast for you? They are the slowest growing for me. What was your trick?

 

My gold hammers just split after 2 yrs.

 

My others haven't at all.

[vegasgundog]

I couldnt believe the prices of the corals i realy wanted at Macna.... I have a hard time spending money that could die without warning....

[vegasgundog]

I bought a few frags from UNRIVALED CORALS including about half dozen or so Goblin Fire Zoas for $35, one of the smaller vendors at Macna. For gigles I just googled goblin fire and zoas.com has ONE POLYP for $60

[MrObscura]

Man, I feel good about getting this guy for 35 bucks. 

 

 

[Lula_Mae]

I think coral prices also depend on where you live and which store you're buying from. Most of my reefing life was spent far enough from any local stores that I ordered almost everything online. Prices were better that way even with shipping lol. I do think there's always been online vendors who seriously overcharge, just like there's always local stores who overcharge. 

[A Little Blue]

I would like to point out that not all vendors are greedy crooks. Lol

I do buy pricier pieces from online vendor. His prices are still a lot more reasonable than others & frags I got were clean, which shortens acclimation/quarantine process.

Could I find those pieces at slightly lower price? Probably, but given a good track record and decent service/communication, getting redundancy in good buying experience seems like a good trade off for a slightly premium cost. And then you have other vendors (also sponsors on here) who quite simply are looking for suckers. Ofcause I won’t name them (they know who they are) but they should feel disgusted with themselves. 

 

LFS I shop, can be reasonable unless you’re looking for flavor of the month and you’re hellbent on getting it in your tank. My favorite shop is awesome with awesome ppl working there. All are knowledgeable, passionate and honest. 

Do they have corals that seem overpriced? Yes, but they also have great selection or reasonably priced frags. You can always negotiate, get bulk discount or get some freebies. 

One day, I stood by their showpiece tank and admired staghorn I couldn’t find anywhere else and the guy just cut a fresh piece and didn’t charge me for it. 

I wasn’t buying anything and just came in for a little chat and advice. 

Overall, great ppl that I will do business with for a long time 

Did industry change and became more greedy in general? Absolutely! 

But as long as they’ll find suckers willing to pay the price, this trend of stupid names, flavor of the month corals, ridiculous prices will continue. 

[Pjanssen]

9 hours ago, Clown79 said:

I know someone who owns a store and the price they pay for items isn't that bad, it's the taxes that jack the price up and importing fees etc.

Good reason to try aqua culture! There are probably enough corals out already that we really shouldn't try to continually pull from the natural reefs if it has been deemed that they are in serious decline. Frag from a mother colony grown in a facility and you have no import taxes to deal with.

 

[Pjanssen]

I suspect many of the unusual colored SPS corals out there are a result of an aquarist experimentation with cross culturing , water chemistry & lighting, and are not necessarily found in nature. You are paying for the presumed expertise in creating these designer corals.

[MrObscura]

15 minutes ago, Pjanssen said:

Good reason to try aqua culture! There are probably enough corals out already that we really shouldn't try to continually pull from the natural reefs if it has been deemed that they are in serious decline. Frag from a mother colony grown in a facility and you have no import taxes to deal with.

 

Yea, I don't understand why wild corals are still being harvested. In fact that seems to be the vast majority of corals. I would think most corals for sale could, and should be, aquaculture. 

 

There's so many species and morphs in captivity that there doesn't rwall seem to be a reason to take them from nature. 

 

And then you do have the few big name shops/aquaculturist(that a word? )  with their own mother colonies supplying their frags, but giving them designer names and charging 300 bucks a frag. 

 

As for lfs, I'm sure their are some truly great ones with knowlahable employees and fair prices, but unfortunately they are few and far between. Most have tanks that look like crap and owners, let alone employees, who are so ignorant and spew such nonsense that even this noob is often like... Wtf? 

 

I can't tell you how many times I've had people at lfss tell me things that I know are factually false and/or promote poor reef keeping. Youre usually faaaarrrr better off getting advice from fellow reefer on sites like this. Who long before you realized themselves that lfss are usually full of it. 

[A Little Blue]

1 hour ago, Pjanssen said:

I suspect many of the unusual colored SPS corals out there are a result of an aquarist experimentation with cross culturing , water chemistry & lighting, and are not necessarily found in nature. You are paying for the presumed expertise in creating these designer corals.

I can assure you that %99 of those fancy corals don’t even look close to cookeded up “rarities” they sell at premium $. 

I can link a seminar where propagation/collection farm owner in Indonesia talks about this BS. 

[Jono]

@A Little Blue I'd love to see that link. I always wondered about that. When you say "cooked up", so you mean blasting them with blues to get colors to pop? 

 

I went to my LFS yesterday to get salt and just laughed at the coral selection. They are SUPER hit or miss. Yesterday was a miss. Everything looked awful. I also wonder with them though, they have super cheap LEDs over their frag tank, and stuff I bought form them looked way better in my own tank. The biggest annoyance I have with them is almost all the frags are $30-40 for tiny tiny tiny little pieces of nothing, that I can get online for $5. If you order enough online, the shipping price is still a better deal 

[roll_the_dice]

You don't even want to know how much pricing has skyrocketed since I have been in the hobby...early 90's.  This is why I only have a few small corals in my tank right now.  I just can't pull the trigger on outrageous pricing.  Nothing is called what it used to be called either..now there are trendy names.  I thought aquacultured corals were supposed to not only lift demands of wild caught, but help lower pricing?  A 1" green bali slimer for $40+ plus shipping is ridiculous.  They grow like a weed....

 

When I used to live in Atlanta, we had a really good reef community and often had frag swaps/sales within the club.  It was not unheard of to leave with 10 frags for under $50 or free.  If you can, become a member of a reef club in your area or start one!  

 

I also think it would be a good idea to list reputable dealers that have reasonable pricing on this thread.

[roll_the_dice]

1 hour ago, MrObscura said:

....

 

I can't tell you how many times I've had people at lfss tell me things that I know are factually false and/or promote poor reef keeping. Youre usually faaaarrrr better off getting advice from fellow reefer on sites like this. Who long before you realized themselves that lfss are usually full of it. 

SO TRUE!  I cringe when I go into an LFS and listen to the crap that is spewed not only from uneducated employees but the owners.  Makes me weep for the hobby.  If I hear something false being told to a newbie, I will wait until they are done and quietly try to help them, sometimes I will just interject politely.  🙂  I guess I am an LFS nightmare sometimes.

[mitten_reef]

9 hours ago, Clown79 said:

They grow fast for you? They are the slowest growing for me. What was your trick?

 

My gold hammers just split after 2 yrs.

 

My others haven't at all.

Not familiar with gold/orange variety of euphyllia's, but I was able to grow the green varieties quite well in the past.  I didn't do anything different beyond regular water change and coral feeding back in those days. 

 

Feb 2016 - Hammer on the right, 3-4 heads?

 

July 2016 - close-up

 

Aug 2016 - Hammer in the center close to double in size if not more

[Clown79]

3 hours ago, Pjanssen said:

Good reason to try aqua culture! There are probably enough corals out already that we really shouldn't try to continually pull from the natural reefs if it has been deemed that they are in serious decline. Frag from a mother colony grown in a facility and you have no import taxes to deal with.

 

I don't have the options you guys do. I'm in cda. Even tank bred fish is hard to come by.

 

Some countries do have aqua cultures options that stores purchase from, you still got to pay the taxes and import fees which are high here.

Indonesia has it available and even that's been banned

[patback]

My lfs has a fragging room that nearly 100% of what they sell, they have colonies of or they get them from aquaculture places.  They still are expensive. Lol. Actually my most expensive store I go to.  They also have high over head though. 

[A Little Blue]

12 hours ago, Jono said:

@A Little Blue I'd love to see that link. I always wondered about that. When you say "cooked up", so you mean blasting them with blues to get colors to pop? 

 

I went to my LFS yesterday to get salt and just laughed at the coral selection. They are SUPER hit or miss. Yesterday was a miss. Everything looked awful. I also wonder with them though, they have super cheap LEDs over their frag tank, and stuff I bought form them looked way better in my own tank. The biggest annoyance I have with them is almost all the frags are $30-40 for tiny tiny tiny little pieces of nothing, that I can get online for $5. If you order enough online, the shipping price is still a better deal 

With blues, high intensity and elevated Alk. I’ll post link when I get home. Having trouble getting thru flooded streets of NJ/NY. 

[A Little Blue]

5 hours ago, Jono said:

@A Little Blue I'd love to see that link. I always wondered about that. When you say "cooked up", so you mean blasting them with blues to get colors to pop? 

 

I went to my LFS yesterday to get salt and just laughed at the coral selection. They are SUPER hit or miss. Yesterday was a miss. Everything looked awful. I also wonder with them though, they have super cheap LEDs over their frag tank, and stuff I bought form them looked way better in my own tank. The biggest annoyance I have with them is almost all the frags are $30-40 for tiny tiny tiny little pieces of nothing, that I can get online for $5. If you order enough online, the shipping price is still a better deal 

Here is one of the links I found, enjoy:

 

[MrObscura]

Watched the whole vid. One thing I've quickly learned in my little time in this hobby is that the idea of crazy light, crazy flow isn't the end all be all it used to be. 

 

Hell looking at old threads online you see people talking 2000+ par, while now 150 is often mentioned as high light. 

 

Interestingly, based on that video the opposite of most people approach is actually the case, with soft corals coming from open water areas with crazy flow and light and most acros coming from protected murky reefs. 

 

Its kind of ironic that most good reefers are trying to replicate their animals natural environment as best as possible but in the effort to do so kind of have things somewhat backwards. 

 

Though that brings up the issue of aquaculture corals, since now they have become accustomed to the artificial tank environments. Though fortunately, a few decades in captivity isn't going to erase millions of year of evolution. 

 

Anyway, in this noobs opinion it seems medium/moderate light and flow is the way to go in aquariums for the vast majority of corals. 

 

And on the topic of coloration, thats one reason I don't like buying corals online. Even the most reputable sellers often paint their corals in the best, unrealistic, light. With filters, altered lighting, etc. I remember a thread I found online back from when one of WWCs 600 dollar acro frags came out and a number of people posted their's and none looked close to the Pic on wwcs site. 

[A Little Blue]

1 hour ago, MrObscura said:

Watched the whole vid. One thing I've quickly learned in my little time in this hobby is that the idea of crazy light, crazy flow isn't the end all be all it used to be. 

 

Hell looking at old threads online you see people talking 2000+ par, while now 150 is often mentioned as high light. 

 

Interestingly, based on that video the opposite of most people approach is actually the case, with soft corals coming from open water areas with crazy flow and light and most acros coming from protected murky reefs. 

 

Its kind of ironic that most good reefers are trying to replicate their animals natural environment as best as possible but in the effort to do so kind of have things somewhat backwards. 

 

Though that brings up the issue of aquaculture corals, since now they have become accustomed to the artificial tank environments. Though fortunately, a few decades in captivity isn't going to erase millions of year of evolution. 

 

Anyway, in this noobs opinion it seems medium/moderate light and flow is the way to go in aquariums for the vast majority of corals. 

 

And on the topic of coloration, thats one reason I don't like buying corals online. Even the most reputable sellers often paint their corals in the best, unrealistic, light. With filters, altered lighting, etc. I remember a thread I found online back from when one of WWCs 600 dollar acro frags came out and a number of people posted their's and none looked close to the Pic on wwcs site. 

In my build/journal I posted pictures of WWC monti in my tank from from two different perspectives (top view vs FTS view), original WWCpic and how photoshoped pic can fool you into buying coral that will never look that good in your tank. 

 

I dont know if the video I linked gives all or any meaningful answers but it definitely gives you a different perspective and first hand knowledge regarding transition of a wild coral into “eye candy”, hyped up money maker. 

 

The points he touched on at the end of the video is something you don’t hear very often. And I wholeheartedly agree! Balance between flow/light/nutrients is crucial to successful reefing and something we need to work on (I hope fancy gear manufacturers are listening). 

In the meantime, I will try to keep my water wet and whatever is in it, alive. 

 

I also appreciate the sarcasm when he was describing those ridiculous, “fancy” corals, bounce mushrooms and cute names of corals in the industry. (My kinda guy)

 

Glad you liked that video. 

 

[Ebn]

It really depends on the reefing community and the local stores that is supported. I fortunately live ~10 minutes away from one of the better LFS in the Bay Area so do get spoiled by the quality and selection. Part of the store is chop shop but there are aquacultured pieces scattered through the shop as well. The frags start as low as $10 and can get up to astronomical values (there are some crazy fools with plenty of money around these parts). He told me that someone wanted a tiny rainbow button scoly from one of his display tanks (I noticed this piece as well in my previous visits) and paid $2.5k for it. 

 

I've known the owner for nearly a decade now and he keeps his prices fair and doesn't gouge you even though someone else would. Here are some pics for reference since I was there for a weekly visit earlier today. P.S. excuse the blue pics since the shop runs mostly Kessils and I only had my phone cam with me.

 

One of the 3 $10 bins

 

 

This is one of the 4' long tanks. This one is mostly full of montis (sunsets, plates, dark mauls, etc.)

 

One of the $20 tanks

 

One of the 8' tanks. This is the $10 SPS section.

 

If you want larger SPS frags, then hit up the 8' long $20 SPS tanks.

 

 

 

Some of the higher end tanks

 

 

For size reference, that giant bubble coral that you see in the background is the size of a basketball. Also, note the giant yuma in the front middle.

 

It's an aquacultured mother yuma from Indo origins, which you can't find any more. I don't think I've ever seen a yuma with the rainbow colors on it at such a huge size. I was very interested in it, but didn't have space for it, so I settled for one of the daughters. 🙂 Here's a close up of it. 

 

Their display tanks. Let's start with some of their nanos and work our way up.

 

Yes, the mushrooms in the front of this nano are JB and eclectus...

 

More JB, eclectus, interstellars...and the reason why I was drawn to this tank that you can't really see. There was ~10 tiny tomini tangs (smaller than the RFAs) in this tank.

 

If you ever wanted to do a GSP only tank, here you go. The lightning maroon female in the tank is ~3".

 

Clownfish tank

 

Euphyllia tank

 

Mix of softies and LPS dominant tank

 

The SPS dominant tank with some new lights over it.

 

So the store uses a lot of Kessils and if you're a local you can stop by to see what Kessil's prototypes looks like. These aren't the prototypes in this pic, but the actual fixtures that will be shipped. In the instance of the tank above, it's currently lighted by 3 Kessil A360X fixtures, which don't ship until sometime in November. 😉

 

 

 

[MrObscura]

Nice, I wish more places had 10-20 dollar selections. I have 1 near me with a 22 dollar frag section and it's a nice place but both my frags from there dying, one from monti eating nudis, ruined that place for me. Even if it wasn't really their fault. Well the nudis were from them but... 

 

Anyway, I like that frags are organized and priced clearly at your shop. Everywhere around here just has scattered frags at all different prices. So you're constantly asking the price of things. 

 

Though at my main shop it's understandable. He runs the place alone out of his basement(and it's nicer than any other shop around)and gets multiple shipments weekly.