Comprehensive plan for first reef tank (IM 25g lagoon) - Looking for feedback

September 21, 2018

Hi all,

I am looking forward to soon set up my first every reef tank and first ever aquarium. I'm a scuba diver and love the idea of having a slice of the ocean in my home. I've spent the last couple months doing my research in great detail and especially found this forum super useful.

I made a comprehensive plan of equipment and stock list here in a Google spreadsheet). I would love feedback on this plan. It all sums up to about $2500 in equipment.

I put a stock list of ~4-5 fish on the second sheet in the spreadsheet as well (TLDR: I'm especially excited about a Potter's angel and a McCosker flasher wrasse, and perhaps adding a clown and blenny as well)

I also have the following specific questions. I know they are a lot but I thought I'd collect them all here. If you share your thoughts on any of them I'll be very grateful:

How badly do I need a QT tank for a new 25g tank with ~4 fish? I am planning to dip coral.
Please review my equipment plan. Am I missing something or wasting money somewhere?
What RODI unit is a good value choice? Many mention the Spectrapure 90 GPD refurb unit, but I can't find it on Spectrapure website. When might they be available again?
Do I need to put egg crate under rocks? Will this be a problem for pistol shrimp?
Does anyone have experience with using smart wifi power strips?
I am planning to get the Icecap 1K Gyre instead of a MP10 as it is much cheaper. What do you think? The gyre seems to be quite new with few reviews.
I am deciding between the Aquamaxx 1.5 HOB skimmer and the Icecap K1 Nano Skimmer (much cheaper, and fits into back chamber, not as big/ugly). I'm leaning towards the Aquamaxx to support a heavier bioload (4-5 fish). Thoughts?
Is it fine to use basic API test kits for cycling and initial stages and only later switch to more accurate test kits like Salifert, Hanna, and Red Sea?
Is Bayer coral dip okay for softies and LPS or should I use something else?
I travel a lot up to 3-4 weeks. How to best prepare for that (beyond large ATO container, autofeeder, and not messing with tank just before)?
When purchasing everything together (ca $2500), are there good ways to get discounts/cashback beyond the points from BRS/MarineDepot?
Are there reef clubs / reef events / frag swaps in Seattle, WA?
Where can I get cheap starter coral?

Thank you very much! I can't wait to start this tank :)

September 21, 2018

1 hour ago, pieceofreef said:

Hi all,

I am looking forward to soon set up my first every reef tank and first ever aquarium. I'm a scuba diver and love the idea of having a slice of the ocean in my home. I've spent the last couple months doing my research in great detail and especially found this forum super useful.

I made a comprehensive plan of equipment and stock list here in a Google spreadsheet). I would love feedback on this plan. It all sums up to about $2500 in equipment.

I put a stock list of ~4-5 fish on the second sheet in the spreadsheet as well (TLDR: I'm especially excited about a Potter's angel and a McCosker flasher wrasse, and perhaps adding a clown and blenny as well)

I also have the following specific questions. I know they are a lot but I thought I'd collect them all here. If you share your thoughts on any of them I'll be very grateful:

How badly do I need a QT tank for a new 25g tank with ~4 fish? I am planning to dip coral.

Please review my equipment plan. Am I missing something or wasting money somewhere?

What RODI unit is a good value choice? Many mention the Spectrapure 90 GPD refurb unit, but I can't find it on Spectrapure website. When might they be available again?

Do I need to put egg crate under rocks? Will this be a problem for pistol shrimp?

Does anyone have experience with using smart wifi power strips?

I am planning to get the Icecap 1K Gyre instead of a MP10 as it is much cheaper. What do you think? The gyre seems to be quite new with few reviews.

I am deciding between the Aquamaxx 1.5 HOB skimmer and the Icecap K1 Nano Skimmer (much cheaper, and fits into back chamber, not as big/ugly). I'm leaning towards the Aquamaxx to support a heavier bioload (4-5 fish). Thoughts?

Is it fine to use basic API test kits for cycling and initial stages and only later switch to more accurate test kits like Salifert, Hanna, and Red Sea?

Is Bayer coral dip okay for softies and LPS or should I use something else?

I travel a lot up to 3-4 weeks. How to best prepare for that (beyond large ATO container, autofeeder, and not messing with tank just before)?

When purchasing everything together (ca $2500), are there good ways to get discounts/cashback beyond the points from BRS/MarineDepot?

Are there reef clubs / reef events / frag swaps in Seattle, WA?

Where can I get cheap starter coral?

Thank you very much! I can't wait to start this tank 🙂

I’m from Seattle too! Pacific north west reef keeping is a local face book page for Washington that always has corals and tanks for sale.

September 21, 2018

5 hours ago, pieceofreef said:

How badly do I need a QT tank for a new 25g tank with ~4 fish? I am planning to dip coral.

That kind of depends on where you get your fish (and coral). Some places like Live Aquria's Diver's Den quarantines their fish prior to selling them (reducing, but not eliminating, the chance of problems). Coral dips like Bayer Insecticide will kill most pests, but not their eggs. A quarantine tank offers extra protection if eggs were to hatch. That said, many take the risk of no QT; but the more you invest in livestock, the more you risk.

5 hours ago, pieceofreef said:

What RODI unit is a good value choice? Many mention the Spectrapure 90 GPD refurb unit, but I can't find it on Spectrapure website. When might they be available again?

That was a great deal. Not sure when, or if, that will be available again. BRS offers some decent options, and you can replace the filters with SpecraPure filters when they are ready for replacement.

5 hours ago, pieceofreef said:

Do I need to put egg crate under rocks?

I'd recommend that you don't.

5 hours ago, pieceofreef said:

I am deciding between the Aquamaxx 1.5 HOB skimmer and the Icecap K1 Nano Skimmer (much cheaper, and fits into back chamber, not as big/ugly). I'm leaning towards the Aquamaxx to support a heavier bioload (4-5 fish). Thoughts?

I might just get a Tunze: https://intankaquatics.com/tunze-doc-9001-nano-protein-skimmer/

5 hours ago, pieceofreef said:

Is it fine to use basic API test kits for cycling and initial stages and only later switch to more accurate test kits like Salifert, Hanna, and Red Sea?

The API ammonia kit is fine for the cycle. I'd get a Hanna ULR Phosphorus Checker, and Salifert nitrate kit. API's phosphate kit us a high range kit and isn't really appropriate for a reef tank. Once you start adding more stony corals, you'll need to test alkalinity and calcium (really just alkalinity is fine at that point). I like Salifert for these (the resolution is lacking on API's alkalinity kit). Once you have sufficient consumption of alkalinity, you'll likely have to dose two part (which also includes magnesium). Again, Salifert is a suitable test kit (although other brands are also fine to use).

5 hours ago, pieceofreef said:

Is Bayer coral dip okay for softies and LPS or should I use something else?

It's fine.

5 hours ago, pieceofreef said:

I travel a lot up to 3-4 weeks. How to best prepare for that (beyond large ATO container, autofeeder, and not messing with tank just before)?

That's not ideal. Hopefully you'll have someone who can still check up on it. If dosing, you'll need to automate that too.

5 hours ago, pieceofreef said:

When purchasing everything together (ca $2500), are there good ways to get discounts/cashback beyond the points from BRS/MarineDepot?

If trying to save money, sometimes you can get good used equipment. Otherwise, just make sure that your orders qualify for free shipping.

5 hours ago, pieceofreef said:

Where can I get cheap starter coral?

Reef clubs are often a good option. Frag swaps and the classified forums are both options. If you are lucky, some local stores are good. When buying online, take advantage of free shipping when possible. Otherwise, purchase multiple corals at once, to spread out the shipping costs.

September 21, 2018

11 hours ago, pieceofreef said:

How badly do I need a QT tank for a new 25g tank with ~4 fish? I am planning to dip coral.

I personally don't but I buy most my livestock and corals from my LFS that is super clean and quarantine all their incoming livestock. If you are going to ordering online it wouldn't hurt to set one up.

11 hours ago, pieceofreef said:

Please review my equipment plan. Am I missing something or wasting money somewhere?

Spectrapure 90GPD ? otherwise BRS - I've been using jugs of distilled water without any major issues.
Salt mix: Instant Ocean Sea Salt - I'm lazy and buy NutriSea Water from my LFS. I've heard great things about Reef Crystals but seems like Fritz salt is all the rage in the hobby now.
Refractometer - Definitely get one over a hydrometer and if you have the money to burn I have heard the IceCap Salinity & Temperature Digital Pocket Tester is awesome.
Gravel cleaner - No expert but you may not need one depending on your CUC
5g homedepot buckets - Must haves
IM 25 gallon Lagoon - I own a NUVO 10. IM is great.
Lid - BRS Mesh kit - The BRS mesh is way better than the one that comes with the tank. I've heard some bad things regarding build quality from Artfully Acrylic. Look into https://safetoplids.com/ or https://octoaquatics.com/octo-lids/ I run my tank lidless but paid the price when my secretive wrasse was bullying my YWG and he jumped out. I can't keep the included lid on because I run my tank with a higher water level and the water creeps up and over the sides where the clips are.
Stand - Can't justify the price on the IM stands. Ikea has some great options. I have one that fits my tank perfectly. Some people reinforce and put a coat of polyurethane.
Eggcrate for bottom - Bad idea as it can trap detritus and interfere with burrowing livestock. If your reasoning is to protect the bottom glass some people use starboard which is similar to the material used in cutting boards.
BRS Reefsaver rock, 25lbs - BRS Reefsaver has great reviews. I have MarcoRocks, very pourous and comes in great shapes also easy to chisel up into smaller pieces if needed.
Tropic Eden Reefflakes Aragonite Sand - 30lb - I personally like a finer sand but have only heard good things about Reef flakes
epoxy for aquascaping: Epo Putty - I just use whatever my local hardware store has that is safe for potable water
Super glue gel - Loctite is great
Dr Tim's ammonium chloride & Dr Tim's one and only - Again, have only heard good things. A lot people also use Brightwells Microbacter7 with great results. I just ghostfed my tank fish flakes for a while.
Cobalt Neo Therm 100w - Amazon has them at a great price right now. I would get 2 incase one fails you have one on hand to replace.
Smart powerstrip with wifi - I would go with a DJ strip. I don't like to rely on wifi in case there is a service outage. This is the one I got https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K9607TY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Cheap and works great.
AI Hydra 26 & AI HMS SINGLE LIGHT MOUNT KIT - I would go with 2 AI Primes so you have more controllability on positioning and intensities. Can't give you first hand experience but take a look at @Cannedfish thread for more info. I have a MicMol G3 Aqua Mini for it's price it is an awesome light.
Icecap 1K Gyre - Can't give you an feedback on Gyre 1K. A lot of people still swear by MP10s and would consider nothing else. I am running the Aqamai KPS and love it so far. I like being able to adjust the direction of the powerhead. Look into their KPM for your sized tank or the IM Wavelink.
Return Pump: Sicce 1.5 - Sicce makes great pumps. I'm running the .5 on my tank. It's dead silent.
inTank Media basket - A must have upgrade.
inTank Filter floss holder - Can't comment on these since I only have 3 chambers in the back. Regardless, inTank makes great products
Filter floss (Pinky) - I use the the blue and white ones from inTank. Can't see there being much difference. Get whatevers cheapest.
Marine Pure bio gems/Innovative Marine MiniMax Media Reactor/BRS Rox 0.8 Carbon/BRS GFO 1lbs - Due to my limited chambers I use the following in my media basket: Xport BIO Blocks, Xport NO3 Cubes, and Xport PO4 Cubes. I also have a bag of Chemipure Nano. I was thinking of getting the IM reactor and running GFO and getting rid of the Chemipure.
Aquamaxx HOB 1.5 protein skimmer - Heard this skimmer is a workhorse. I would look into the Tunze 9001. I am running the ReefGlass skimmer for its size factor but I am looking to upgrade to the Eshopps Nano.
AutoAqua SMART ATO MICRO - Have the same simple and works great.
Big jug ca 10 gallon - It depends on how fast your water evaporates. I would go with a 5 gallon to not have such a large volume of water staying stagnant or you could stick a small pump in to circulate the water.
API Saltwater Master Test KIT - Saltwater & Reef - API is fine for testing during and right after cycle. I use Salifert for Nitrate, Calcium, and Magnesium. I use Hanna for Alkalinity and ULR Phosphate
Flipper Nano - Have it and love it. You may be able to get away with the next size up for your tank.
Fish net - I bought a cheap 5 in 1 on Amazon that had a scraper and other misc. accessories.
Coral dip: Bayer Advanced Complete Insect Killer - I use Coral RX and it's worked great so far but I dont have a lot of SPS which I've read Bayer is better for.
Drip acclimation kit - Like I mentioned before I buy most of my livestock and corals locally so i don't drip acclimate. I just float in bag and then drop in.
Gyre (MP10) Battery backup/Battery operated air pump (and D cell batteries)/Eheim autofeeder - I have a battery powered pump on hand in case of power outages. I don't travel much but the autofeeder is def a good choice. Google more about them because I know some types of food can clog them up. Look into this emergency pump that Cobalt just released https://www.saltwateraquarium.com/rescue-air-pump-kit-usb-1-outlet-battery-backup-w-power-pack-cobalt/
Coral feeder/ turkey baster - Another must have item
? what actual food (dry and frozen). reef roids - I use feed Reef Roids and frozen mysis once a week and New Life Spectrum Pellets every other day.
Magnetic frag rack (Reefing Art) - @Oceanbox Designs makes great frag racks
Acclimation box (Reefing Art) - See if your LFS has any styrofoam boxes they can give you.
Scalpel for coral cutting / moving - Scalpel is good idea as well as stainless steel wire cutters
Polyplap coral view lens for smartphone - It's on my list as my next purchase
Random flow generators + 19mm drop adapter - VCA is releasing a shorter nano version soon. I'm using the spinstream. It was loud at first but is silent now since it's broken in.

18 hours ago, pieceofreef said:

When purchasing everything together (ca $2500), are there good ways to get discounts/cashback beyond the points from BRS/MarineDepot?

I always check Amazon first. Sometimes they have items listed as used that are just damaged boxes. If they don't have what I'm looking for I go to SaltWaterAquarium.com they always have great prices and discounts and an awesome rewards program. These also have a great selection of trial sized freebies.

18 hours ago, pieceofreef said:

Where can I get cheap starter coral?

Always check your LFS first or local online communities. For online purchasing, @Legendary Corals and @AquaSD both have great sales.

Hope I was helpful and goodluck with the build.

September 30, 2018

On 9/21/2018 at 12:01 AM, ReefCap said:

I’m from Seattle too! Pacific north west reef keeping is a local face book page for Washington that always has corals and tanks for sale.

Awesome, thank you! This page is great. Do you know of any reef clubs or similar groups or events?

September 30, 2018

On 9/21/2018 at 4:37 AM, seabass said:

On 9/20/2018 at 10:57 PM, pieceofreef said:

The API ammonia kit is fine for the cycle. I'd get a Hanna ULR Phosphorus Checker, and Salifert nitrate kit. API's phosphate kit us a high range kit and isn't really appropriate for a reef tank. Once you start adding more stony corals, you'll need to test alkalinity and calcium (really just alkalinity is fine at that point). I like Salifert for these (the resolution is lacking on API's alkalinity kit). Once you have sufficient consumption of alkalinity, you'll likely have to dose two part (which also includes magnesium). Again, Salifert is a suitable test kit (although other brands are also fine to use).

Thank you so much for the very comprehensive and super useful response!

Out of curiosity, why do you recommend not to use eggcrate under the rocks?

Thanks!

September 30, 2018

On 9/21/2018 at 5:19 PM, Stoops718 said:

Hope I was helpful and goodluck with the build.

Wow! Thank you so much. I am very impressed and very thankful for your amazingly comprehensive response. It was super super helpful.

Two quick follow-ups:

- I wasn't able to find the Cannedfish thread that you referred to regarding the 2x Prime Vs Hydra 26.

- Substrate: I was worried that anything smaller than the reefflakes would fly around too much in the flow. The miniflakes would be smaller (2 vs 3mm) but I'm nervous I'd have to stir back sand a lot and deal with sand storms.

Thank you again!!

September 30, 2018

How badly do I need a QT tank for a new 25g tank with ~4 fish? I am planning to dip coral.

I’d highly recommend it if you have the time and resources. If not, then find a medication such as paraguard and add the correct dose when acclimating new fish.

Please review my equipment plan. Am I missing something or wasting money somewhere?

Besides lighting and other expensive stuff, try not to order from BRS. For example, your Reefsaver Rock from BRS is probably x3 more expensive than CaribSea Liferock from the LFS (in my experience).

What RODI unit is a good value choice? Many mention the Spectrapure 90 GPD refurb unit,

Anything on eBay/Amazon get the job done. However, you get what you pay for...

but I can't find it on Spectrapure website. When might they be available again?

I do not know of this brand, so I cannot answer this.

Do I need to put egg crate under rocks? Will this be a problem for pistol shrimp?

It shouldn’t be. However to be safe lay your dry rock before placing sand in the tank.

Does anyone have experience with using smart wifi power strips?

For lighting? Or for power of the tank?

I am planning to get the Icecap 1K Gyre instead of a MP10 as it is much cheaper. What do you think?The gyre seems to be quite new with few reviews.

I think either will do great depending on your budget.

I am deciding between the Aquamaxx 1.5 HOB skimmer and the Icecap K1 Nano Skimmer (much cheaper, and fits into back chamber, not asbig/ugly). I'm leaning towards the Aquamaxx to support a heavier bioload (4-5 fish). Thoughts?

If you desire a higher bioload, go for the Aquamaxx

Is it fine to use basic API test kits for cycling and initial stages and only later switch to more accurate test kits like Salifert, Hanna, and Red Sea?

I use every API test kit, even their phosphate. It gets the job done in my experience. Don’t waste your money on the Salifert or Red Sea in my opinion unless you are really serious about the hobby, which in that case I’d recommend the Hanna checkers.

Is Bayer coral dip okay for softies and LPS or should I use something else?

The general consensus is that it is ok, however, keep in mind that Bayer wasn’t designed as coral dip, and could have unseen effects.

I travel a lot up to 3-4 weeks. How to best prepare for that (beyond large ATO container, autofeeder, and not messing with tank just before)?

Don’t add new livestock 1-2 weeks before traveling. Have a friend who’s into reefing as much as you are (ideally, lol)

When purchasing everything together (ca $2500), are there good ways to get discounts/cashback beyond the points from BRS/MarineDepot?

I’m sure these sites have discounts if you spent over a certain amount of money, however, if you are wanting to save up small amounts of money, then lots of stuff can be found in hardware/home stores. Take epoxy for example. You can get JB Waterweld for 1/4 the price of so called “Reef Safe Epoxy”. Small savings make big differences...

Are there reef clubs / reef events / frag swaps in Seattle, WA?

I cannot speak as I am on the east coast

Where can I get cheap starter coral?

Become friends with people at your LFS, as well as the owner of the LFS. For example, I got a second free rose bubble tip anemone today (which would’ve been 50 dollars) for the price of 1 because I’m a regular there. Usually you can get cheaper frags/corals from fellow reefers. Look out for deals from your LFS too. I saved 100$ worth in frags on one sale.

October 1, 2018

54 minutes ago, AbnormalReeder said:

Where can I get cheap starter coral?

Become friends with people at your LFS, as well as the owner of the LFS. For example, I got a second free rose bubble tip anemone today (which would’ve been 50 dollars) for the price of 1 because I’m a regular there. Usually you can get cheaper frags/corals from fellow reefers. Look out for deals from your LFS too. I saved 100$ worth in frags on one sale.

Wow! What an awesome forum! Thank you so much for taking the time to provide such a long and thoughtful response!

October 1, 2018

1 hour ago, pieceofreef said:

Out of curiosity, why do you recommend not to use eggcrate under the rocks?

I just feel that it can trap detritus. Critters can't easily traverse through it either. However, I don't believe it is that detrimental if you decide to go that way.

1 hour ago, AbnormalReeder said:

I use every API test kit, even their phosphate.

Unfortunately, by the time that phosphate is high enough to register on the API phosphate test kit, the level in your water would be about 10 times higher than recommended.

October 1, 2018

32 minutes ago, seabass said:

Unfortunately, by the time that phosphate is high enough to register on the API phosphate test kit, the level in your water would be about 10 times higher than recommended.

They don’t call me abnormal reefer for nothing, lol!

But it in all seriousness... if the recommended levels of phosphate are .07 ppm, then wouldn’t a .25 register “only” be approx 25/7 over the recommended phosphate level?

But I may stand corrected on the phosphate kit in general seabass... thank you for pointing it out. If this is the case, everything besides the API phosphate test is ok for use in my opinion.

Edited October 1, 2018 by AbnormalReeder
Forgot to add...

October 1, 2018

You often see recommended phosphate levels being less than 0.03 ppm.

October 1, 2018

5 minutes ago, seabass said:

You often see recommended phosphate levels being less than 0.03 ppm.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/

https://blog.marinedepot.com/education-center/charts-diagrams/reef-tank-parameters

http://www.melevsreef.com/articles/getting-rid-of-green-hair-algae

Wow, you sure are right on that! I stand corrected. I will be using a different phosphate test from now on...

October 1, 2018

10 hours ago, pieceofreef said:

Awesome, thank you! This page is great. Do you know of any reef clubs or similar groups or events?

Unfortunately I don’t know of any clubs. But there is a frag swap happening down in Vancouver Washington this next Saturday

October 1, 2018

2 hours ago, ReefCap said:

... there is a drag swap happening down in Vancouver Washington this next Saturday

Hmm... I'm not sure what I'd expect going into to that event.

October 2, 2018

Does it make sense to actively seed a small AIO tank with pods (25g lagoon, no refugium, when starting with no/little bioload)? I'm wondering whether ordering pods makes sense or I shouldn't worry about it at all. I'm planning clown, goby, flasher wrasse, small angel as stocklist.

October 2, 2018

Introducing diversity can be a good thing. And often, the lack of predators can help them become established. However, if starting with dry rock, there might not yet be a suitable environment to sustain a new culture. And if starting with live rock, you might already have these pods in your tank. You might have to feed them something (like phyto) to support them.

February 21, 2019

I would of recommend the flame angel, he/she would be to it for 25g and will nip at your corals. Wrasses get a little big too and will eat the little critters that crawl around your tank. For blennys, I would recommend tailspot blenny or a small bicolor blenny.

Good luck with your tank!

February 21, 2019

14 hours ago, NANOREEFERBOI said:

I would of recommend the flame angel, he/she would be to it for 25g and will nip at your corals.

isnt this statement contradictory?

Also i heard no angels outside possibly a cherub / pigmy in no less then 50 gallon, which includes the flame, as they get super aggressive and bossy?

February 21, 2019

I wouldn't recommend any angels in a 25 from my personal experience. I had a Flame in a 29 and had to re-home him after a few months when he established his territory (the entire tank) and would harass and murder anything smaller than himself. I'm not sure I'd add one to my 50, tbh.

I've got the IM 50 Lagoon and have been super happy with it, so I'm sure the 25 is equally as well made.

I've done a few upgrades though;

Using an InTank media basket to hold carbon and filter floss on one side. Way easier and more economical long term over the default IM Filter Socks.
Added a Tunze 9001 Skimmer to the other side.
Upgraded the pump to a DC controllable one with approximately double the flow at max
Added a bunch of ceramic bio-media balls to the chamber right after the skimmer to increase the biofilter and to help prevent skimmer bubbles from showing up in the display. I'm also now growing a mangrove out of there as well.

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Comprehensive plan for first reef tank (IM 25g lagoon) - Looking for feedback

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