What do you'd wish you'd known about dosing two-part before you started?

[Griever]

Hey everyone!

 

I'm about to set up a two-part dosing system and I've done a ton of research about how to do it, but people tend to only share the good stuff, and not the places where they goofed up. So I ask, people who've been dosing two-part successfully for a while, what are some things you'd wish you'd known when you started? Anything I need to be careful of?

 

Thanks in advance!

[paneubert]

Make sure you still track your levels after you think you have it dialed in.  Even a very small or slow increase or decrease in overall levels over time can grown to be a big imbalance when taken cumulatively. 

[Griever]

What about if I want to run elevated levels - https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video/view/elevated-alkalinity-and-calcium-for-faster-growth-part-2-brstv-investigates/ 

 

Should I work on getting the levels to where I want them first over a few days? Then dial in the dosing? Or try and use the dosing pumps to slowly raise my levels over a few weeks?

[paneubert]

Consumption can be assumed to stay fairly constant (once you figure it out from a week or two of testing to see how much it drops daily), but I guess any "accelerated" consumption resulting from elevated levels would be the wildcard in the equation.  If you are going to raise levels much above natural seawater, I personally would do it over a few weeks time and not a few days time.  Then figure out consumption based on the starting values being already elevated.

[RayWhisperer]

I’ve run elevated levels. I’ll say this. I don’t think it’s worth it. It’s a pain in the ass with water changes. It’s way easier to just run the system at the level your salt mixes at. I think you’ll be wasting money and time all to achieve very little. If you want to run your system hot, like 11+ dkh, your best bet is a calcium reactor. Even then, it’s a pain in the ass in other ways. I burnt more tips than I grew running a hot system.

[seabass]

^ This

 

Also, if you want higher levels than your current salt mix, switch mixes.  Although, as Ray stated, the benefit will likely not amount to much.  Stability is typically more important.

[Griever]

24 minutes ago, seabass said:

^ This

 

Also, if you want higher levels than your current salt mix, switch mixes.  Although, as Ray stated, the benefit will likely not amount to much.  Stability is typically more important.

I kind of figured the same in terms of benefits of running a high Cal/Alk system, but then watched the latest BRS video. Seems like some pretty compelling results so I'm considering trying it.

[Recci]

10 hours ago, RayWhisperer said:

I’ve run elevated levels. I’ll say this. I don’t think it’s worth it. It’s a pain in the ass with water changes. It’s way easier to just run the system at the level your salt mixes at. I think you’ll be wasting money and time all to achieve very little. If you want to run your system hot, like 11+ dkh, your best bet is a calcium reactor. Even then, it’s a pain in the ass in other ways. I burnt more tips than I grew running a hot system.

Just use red sea coral pro salt then dose enough to main the levels its at when mixed. which is 11.5dkh 450ca and 1360mg

[Cannedfish]

Not that I am an expert by even the furthest stretch of the imagine (and thus take anything I say with a grain of salt), but I have to agree with @RayWhisperer and @seabass. While running a tank hot will most likely give you better growth the margin of error in parameters at these levels, in my opinion (especially with smaller systems), negate many of the advantages. I attempted to run my system at these elevated levels for a hot minute and it was a constant problem, it seemed like there was always something, more or less, on the verge of disaster. As stated many times, its not uncommon for a smaller system to have large parameter swings (these swings can be increased if the dosing is automated, unless measuring daily), and upwards drifting swings, I believe, are much riskier in elevated systems. An alk swing of 1.5+ if your running your system at 11.5 can have much more detrimental result than if you were running it at 8.5. I'm definitely not trying to talk you out of it, but when I first started auto dosing it took a while before I really had the dosing amounts dialed in (and I still test parameters several times a week). Overall, I am happy I switched to a 2-part dosing system, just giving my two-cents. Rant over. 

[Griever]

6 hours ago, Cannedfish said:

Not that I am an expert by even the furthest stretch of the imagine (and thus take anything I say with a grain of salt), but I have to agree with @RayWhisperer and @seabass. While running a tank hot will most likely give you better growth the margin of error in parameters at these levels, in my opinion (especially with smaller systems), negate many of the advantages. I attempted to run my system at these elevated levels for a hot minute and it was a constant problem, it seemed like there was always something, more or less, on the verge of disaster. As stated many times, its not uncommon for a smaller system to have large parameter swings (these swings can be increased if the dosing is automated, unless measuring daily), and upwards drifting swings, I believe, are much riskier in elevated systems. An alk swing of 1.5+ if your running your system at 11.5 can have much more detrimental result than if you were running it at 8.5. I'm definitely not trying to talk you out of it, but when I first started auto dosing it took a while before I really had the dosing amounts dialed in (and I still test parameters several times a week). Overall, I am happy I switched to a 2-part dosing system, just giving my two-cents. Rant over. 

No that makes perfect sense, that's good perspective. Thanks! 

Sounds like my plan will be to get it dialed in first, running at fresh mixed salt levels, and then only explore elevating those levels once I'm very confident in the system and how it's running (or just be happy with the results and drink a beer).

[Clown79]

19 hours ago, RayWhisperer said:

I’ve run elevated levels. I’ll say this. I don’t think it’s worth it. It’s a pain in the ass with water changes. It’s way easier to just run the system at the level your salt mixes at. I think you’ll be wasting money and time all to achieve very little. If you want to run your system hot, like 11+ dkh, your best bet is a calcium reactor. Even then, it’s a pain in the ass in other ways. I burnt more tips than I grew running a hot system.

^ This 100%

 

 

There is compelling evidence for everything and if we constantly changed our Tanks and methods for this months theory we'd all end up with crashed tanks.

 

For the amount of ppl who love high parameters there are equal amounts of ppl who had bad experiences with it.

 

The one thing that is certain - STABILITY is the proven method. 

 

 

[Griever]

So back to the actual set up and running of a successful two-part dosing system, any lessons learned or common mistakes I need to be aware of? All the equipment is arriving today, so I'm going to be setting it up tonight. 🙂

[Cannedfish]

Thinking back to setting up mine: 

 

1. Test daily at the same time each day for the first week or some till you dial it in

2. Calibration is important, make sure you calibrate it and there are no air bubbles in the the tubing

3. You can dilute your two part with RODI water (I wish I had know that) so you can spread out your dosing throughout the day (I cut mine in half with RODI). This also allows you to fine tune your dosing better 

4.start conservatively, it’s better to dose to little than too much. 

5. Online dosing calculators will help you figure out how much to dose

6. Stagger your dosing of each part by a few minutes to prevent precipitation 

7. You should dose equal parts alk and calc but of the two parameters alk is more important (they are both important) but you won’t nuke your tank as quickly if calc is to high or too low. Plus all is way easier to test for (I ducked it up and got a Hanna because it provided easier to quantify measurements)

8. You got this!!

 

[RayWhisperer]

I haven’t watched the BRS video. However, the theory is nothing new. We were doing it 10 years ago. Right after that theory of the month passed, it was dividing your lighting schedule into 2 parts of the day. Anyone remember that?  Run the halides for 4 or five hours, turn em off, run em another 4 or 5 hours in the evening. It was another one of these grow your coral faster fads. 

 

When you get right down to it. WHY? That’s my question. Are you planning on running a coral propagation business? Even if you were. Is the extra 1/4” of growth you MIGHT see in a month worth the extra cost of 2 part/kalk/or reactor media? It all smacks of penis envy to me. 

 

So, enough of that. To add to the coonass’ post, some brands of 2 part don’t mix so well with RODI water. It’s been so long since I’ve used any 2 part, I don’t remember which. However, the alk would always precipitate to the bottom of the container, no matter how well you mixed it. So, just do a little digging on which brand most like best. Also it’s not really “you should use equal parts of the 2 part.” As much as it is “you must use equal parts of the 2 part.” If you’re going to do it right. 

 

A few other things thinking back.

pay no attention to the directions on the back of the bottle. They used to be completely ####ed up. That may have changed in recent years, though. Just do it as it’s been outlined here.

Start out testing for a base line before dosing. Water change, test. Next day at the same time, test. Do it as long as you need to to figure out a GOOD baseline consumption rate. If it takes you a month of changing water once a week, and testing daily, that’s fine. 

Test weekly after that. Understand, as the colony grows, consumption increases. Likewise, it’ll drop after a major fragging event. 

 

[HarryPotter]

I might have screwed up my tank with the doser last nights...... turned it “on” (via apex, instead of auto)  to clear the tubes of air after putting in new solution, and got distracted. Spiked my Alk from 8 to 11.5, and now, 24h later, seeing some pieces I’ve had for years start to RTN 😞.  Already tossed a few frags. 

 

So the lesson is don’t be like HarryPotter and get distracted, pushing the tank backwards by months and months. Dosers have the ability to both “make” your tank or “break” your tank. 

 

[Griever]

1 minute ago, HarryPotter said:

I might have screwed up my tank with the doser last nights...... turned it “on” (via apex, instead of auto)  to clear the tubes of air after putting in new solution, and got distracted. Spiked my Alk from 8 to 11.5, and now, 24h later, seeing some pieces I’ve had for years start to RTN 😞 

 

 

So the lesson is don’t be like HarryPotter and get distracted, pushing the tank backwards by months and months. 

 

Oh no! 😞

[HarryPotter]

5 minutes ago, Griever said:

Oh no! 😞

 

I am a huge fan of dosers. An easy and easily adjustable way to keep up parameters. This my first major mishap; I’ve gone through gallons of 2 part; at least 10.

 

Just...... never override auto. Or be smart and clear the dosing lines into a cup rather than your display. 

[Lawnman]

Whatever you run it at just keep it stable if you plan on keeping LPS. I use RSCP and dose to the levels it mixes at. 

[seabass]

19 minutes ago, RayWhisperer said:

Right after that theory of the month passed, it was dividing your lighting schedule into 2 parts of the day. Anyone remember that?

 

 

[Griever]

2 minutes ago, seabass said:

 

 

I've had best success when running my LEDs in a strobe mode. Tens of thousands of light cycles per day. Basically unlimited growth. 

[markalot]

Run low.  Too low kills slowly, spiking too high kills quickly.   I have not seen BRS results yet but frankly I can't imagine faster SPS growth than what I have now.  I want slower growth.  

 

I used C-Balance for over a year, then woke up and started using BRS bulk two part for 1/5 of the cost.  I go through a gallon a month to keep my big tank at 6.5 KH.  My 40 gallon has been running between 5.5 and 6.5 for over a year.  Nothing died, but obviously things were not thriving.  Added doser now keeps it at 6.5.  Low is the way to go.  :D

 

 

[jservedio]

One other thing to consider is if you need 2-part or if you can get by with kalk. A doser is one more point of failure and one more complexity. Kalk has lots of limitations, but if the humidity in your home is stable year round and your consumption isn't super high, you might not need 2-part.

 

It's far easier to manage kalk in an ATO, less moving parts, and their are great calculators available. Also no paying to replace pump heads!

[Griever]

11 hours ago, jservedio said:

One other thing to consider is if you need 2-part or if you can get by with kalk. A doser is one more point of failure and one more complexity. Kalk has lots of limitations, but if the humidity in your home is stable year round and your consumption isn't super high, you might not need 2-part.

 

It's far easier to manage kalk in an ATO, less moving parts, and their are great calculators available. Also no paying to replace pump heads!

I've struggled with Kalk in an ATO before. Just ended up gumming up my ATO pump and causing a lot of PH swings. It's totally possible I was doing it wrong tho! In any event, I've already bought all the two-part stuff, so we'll give that a whirl. If nothing else, it's a new experience I can claim to have tried. 🙂

 

I've got everything except the dosing pump, which was sent signature required. Picking that up this afternoon and setting things up this evening!

[mitten_reef]

no one had mentioned this yet, and it probably is a no-brainer, but I'll say it anyway.

 

Don't mess with you lighting, while you're dialing it in the consumption/dose.  Since light affects coral metabolism, your daily test may not be the most accurate if light level changes during that period.  In similar line, if you do increase or decrease you light level for whatever reasons, you'll have re-measure/re-dial everything.  

[FISHnChix]

13 hours ago, markalot said:

can't imagine faster SPS growth than what I have now.  I want slower growth

^this guy lmao ... funny thing is I love your tanks and and I actually believe that you would want slower growth...