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ninjamyst

Are we over complicating tanks?

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1 hour ago, WV Reefer said:

I get random online hate for my reefing methods. I’ve been told I am a liar.  I’ve been told that my tank will crash any day and that i am pushing my luck/rolling the dice. 

Wow, really?  Guess after 30+ years of proclaiming to keep reef tanks without all the mech, chem and fancy stuff that that would make me an even bigger liar...and that my tank will soon crash so hard that a black hole singularity will open up and crush everything in sight 😏

 

I guess I'm lucky enough to have started reef keeping way before social media was even a thing.  Very little, if any, peer pressure.

 

 

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3 hours ago, ninjamyst said:

I used to be one of those guys that invest tons of money into equipments and additives.  No more.  Just going to keep things simple and let nature do its thing.  

I've followed you're ups and downs for a while now and glad to see that you have adopted a more simplified approach 👍

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2 hours ago, seabass said:

For me, I feel maturity is wildly under appreciated.

That pretty much sums it up. 

 

As well as being underappreciated, I have come to the realization that there is real ambiguity in the reef keeping community (especially for newbies) as to what 'mature' actually means for a reef tank.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Nano sapiens said:

I have come to the realization that there is real ambiguity in the reef keeping community (especially for newbies) as to what 'mature' actually means for a reef tank.

So true.  And it's not even so much about time as it is about established fauna and diversity (much of it being microscopic).

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10 hours ago, WV Reefer said:

I get random online hate for my reefing methods. I’ve been told I am a liar.  I’ve been told that my tank will crash any day and that i am pushing my luck/rolling the dice. 

 

That’s why I was so happy to be chosen for TOTM......... so that I could help show that you don’t need all the extra stuff. 

you show them!

 

 

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9 hours ago, Nano sapiens said:

I've followed you're ups and downs for a while now and glad to see that you have adopted a more simplified approach 👍

Thanks.  Your 12g is my first inspiration and motivation.  I should have followed your natural approach from the start.

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11 hours ago, WV Reefer said:

I get random online hate for my reefing methods. I’ve been told I am a liar.  I’ve been told that my tank will crash any day and that i am pushing my luck/rolling the dice. 

  

That’s why I was so happy to be chosen for TOTM......... so that I could help show that you don’t need all the extra stuff. 

 

I need background info haha- what is your unconventional method? Just KISS with water changes without all the chemical crap? 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, HarryPotter said:

 

I need background info haha- what is your unconventional method? Just KISS with water changes without all the chemical crap? 

 

 

Read my threads! 😀

 

but yeah, it’s not groundbreaking stuff but the hate I’ve received about it is real..... Across all online reefing platforms. 

 

The same people that toss vinegar, vodka or peroxide in their tanks think it’s outrageous to not have a filter or skimmer........ it doesn’t really make sense.  🤷🏻‍♀️

 

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5 minutes ago, WV Reefer said:

Read my threads! 😀

 

 but yeah, it’s not groundbreaking stuff but the hate I’ve received about it is real..... Across all online reefing platforms. 

  

The same people that toss vinegar, vodka or peroxide in their tanks think it’s outrageous to not have a filter or skimmer........ it doesn’t really make sense.  🤷🏻‍♀️

 

I sometimes just look at the pretty pictures 😳

 

Now I get it- I was wondering what was getting the hate. I like my mechanical filtration so I can feed so much, but I also don't use anything chemical. Besides adding calcium and alkalinity in between water changes, but thats unavoidable with acros 

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I'm a newb working with my first ever reef tank and I've spoken back and fourth with several of you and I have for various reasons been a kiss reefer.  I'm approaching my one year with my evo 13.5 and I'm proud of my tank.  100% stock.  Started with three live rocks and live sand and have been religious about water changes.  My only issues have come from ill-informed purchases resulting in problems for example getting a coral banded shrimp when I already had a fire shrimp.  They didn't get along.  I bought an arrow crab and it quickly outgrew my tank.   I bought a clownfish that was sick when I got it.  For a while I was wrapped up in the idea of trying to raise my alk and was testing all the time and blah blah blah.  Just threw things outta whack.  

 

Water er change every two to three weeks.  Wring out my filter sponge (yes in successfully using the sponge) in my dirty water every few water changes.  Soak my pump once every few months in vinegar to restore flow.  Feed reef roids once a week with a pipet and a mix of frozen stuff or flakes and pellets for everyone else once a day.  I love this hobby and can't wait to go to a slightly bigger tank.  My wife and five year old boy are super into it and it hasn't really broken the bank either as everything I've got in the tank as far as wildlife is concerned was purchased for about twenty bucks or less a pop.  Many of my corals were total bargain buys 2-10 dollar range.  They might not be the fanciest or rarest but I'm a noob and I don't care cause they look amazing!!!

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1 hour ago, WV Reefer said:

Read my threads! 😀

 

but yeah, it’s not groundbreaking stuff but the hate I’ve received about it is real..... Across all online reefing platforms. 

 

The same people that toss vinegar, vodka or peroxide in their tanks think it’s outrageous to not have a filter or skimmer........ it doesn’t really make sense.  🤷🏻‍♀️

 

When I first started reef keeping I saw tons of peer pressure and hate on so many forums.

 

I have been on the receiving end of it as well.

 

It often happens to those who don't follow but try to do things differently. 

 

I often think the haters hate because the one who is doing things simply, are successful without having fallen for the need to buy all the expensive gadgets and products.

 

Nano Reef has been the most pleasant forum where we generally all get along.

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16 minutes ago, 4Swanson2Reefer0N00b said:

They might not be the fanciest or rarest

Nothing at all wrong with that.  Same for fish IMO.

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Yes, we severely over complicate everything. Reactor this, best led fixture that. Stupid expensive salt, fancy pants dosing there.

 

TBH, it's not needed, and 99% of it is a genitalia/mammary measuring contest.

 

Yes, my reef has a programmable led fixture (it certainly isnt a popular or expensive brand). Yes I have a vortech mp10 (bough it second hand). I bought those not because i needed them, but because i wanted them & it made my reef keeping simpler & easier. I had a fantastic 5g pico with nothing but a hob &  a par38. Still have the hob for water movement

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2 minutes ago, seabass said:

Nothing at all wrong with that.  Same for fish IMO.

Some get wrapped up in the fanciest and rarest. It's the same thing with having the most expensive equipment.

 

Totally unnecessary

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I just watched a youtube video yesterday of some coral guy by the name of Jason Fox. He has well over 5,000 gallons of sw in his home. He doesnt dose anything, and only does water changes with Instant ocean, not even Reef crystals.

 

Yep, I'll stick with my water change only method

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4 minutes ago, JBM said:

I just watched a youtube video yesterday of some coral guy by the name of john (cant remember last name, but he was a coral vendor somewhere in maryland) He has well over 5,000 gallons of sw in his home. He doesnt dose anything, and only does water changes with Instant ocean, not even Reef crystals.

 

Yep, I'll stick with my water change only method

ya sure that's not Jason Fox basement tour video? That dude does 20% water change of his ENTIRE systems religiously, or some like that.   

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Just now, micoastreefing said:

ya sure that's not Jason Fox basement tour video? That dude does 20% water change of his ENTIRE systems religiously, or some like that.   

 

 

Yup, that be him.

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Not to go too much against the grain here, but advances in equipment have been outstanding.  Back in the day we used Maxi-Jet 1200s instead of MP-10s.  VHO and Compact fluorescent bulbs were commonly used (MH if you needed lots of light).  Pumps, lights, controllers, reliable ATOs, etc, have made reefing both easier and better for our livestock.

 

It's just so easy to get caught up in things.  We want the best for our pets (whether they are our dogs or our corals).  Sometimes we just buy stuff that we don't need, or get drawn into the hype.  Then there is the competition factor.  I kind of get it (but not really).  We like it when others appreciate what we've done.  It's only natural.  Although some seem to take it to the extreme.  Just as long as we like what we've done.  And sure, if somebody else appreciates what we've created (whether that's a fancy, tech heavy, coral packed, large reef, or a simple pico jar with an air line and PAR LED), then that's nice too.

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Love this thread.  I do have about $2k in equipment, but in the end I just use 2-part, carbon, a little gfo and water changes.  

 

Edit:  Let's just call it $3k and hope my wife never sees this 🙂

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I will ask this-as far as hands off approaches and simplicity go how do people feel about coral interaction?  What I mean is my tank is getting crowded and things are growing into each other's spaces. I moved a lepto that was stung pretty badly by a rbta but otherwise when things have grown into each other I've just let it go and let nature do its thing.  Thoughts?  For example.  I've just noticed my Duncan coral which started with one head and now has fifteen is now down to fourteen.  The head growing closest to my ricordeas has recessed and has died off.  I'm gonna leave it cause the rest of the Duncan is totally fine.  I assume it will adjust.  Poor assumption or just needs to be reviewed on a case by case situation due to the fact my tank is a mixed reef?

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9 minutes ago, 4Swanson2Reefer0N00b said:

... how do people feel about coral interaction?

In some cases, you will have to intervene, or you might lose a coral that you wish to keep.  Obviously, some corals pack a heavier punch than others.  You'll often see zoanthids nestled up next to other corals without problems.  However, some corals have intense stinging sweeper tentacles, some will just grow faster than others, some will employ chemical warfare, and others will simply block the available light.  If totally left alone, I think you'd eventually end up with just a couple of corals that have out competed the others.

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I also think all the marketing and hype by vendors make this worst.  I go on BRS or MD website, and it's telling me to buy this and that to improve my tank.  I remember the first thing I did as a beginner was buy a bunch of crap online.  I stockpiled Chemipure Elite.  When Chemipure Blue came out, I got tons of the nano packets.  I don't even know why I was dropping them in my tank when I had barely any corals in there in the beginning.  Brightwell has like 10 different kinds of additives that claim to do the same thing!  

1 hour ago, 4Swanson2Reefer0N00b said:

I'm a newb working with my first ever reef tank and I've spoken back and fourth with several of you and I have for various reasons been a kiss reefer.  I'm approaching my one year with my evo 13.5 and I'm proud of my tank.  100% stock.  Started with three live rocks and live sand and have been religious about water changes.  My only issues have come from ill-informed purchases resulting in problems for example getting a coral banded shrimp when I already had a fire shrimp.  They didn't get along.  I bought an arrow crab and it quickly outgrew my tank.   I bought a clownfish that was sick when I got it.  For a while I was wrapped up in the idea of trying to raise my alk and was testing all the time and blah blah blah.  Just threw things outta whack.  

 

Water er change every two to three weeks.  Wring out my filter sponge (yes in successfully using the sponge) in my dirty water every few water changes.  Soak my pump once every few months in vinegar to restore flow.  Feed reef roids once a week with a pipet and a mix of frozen stuff or flakes and pellets for everyone else once a day.  I love this hobby and can't wait to go to a slightly bigger tank.  My wife and five year old boy are super into it and it hasn't really broken the bank either as everything I've got in the tank as far as wildlife is concerned was purchased for about twenty bucks or less a pop.  Many of my corals were total bargain buys 2-10 dollar range.  They might not be the fanciest or rarest but I'm a noob and I don't care cause they look amazing!!!

I love my 13.5 evo too.  Link me your thread =P

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7 minutes ago, seabass said:

In some cases, you will have to intervene, or you might lose a coral that you wish to keep.  Obviously, some corals pack a heavier punch than others.  You'll often see zoanthids nestled up next to other corals without problems.  However, some corals have intense stinging sweeper tentacles, some will just grow faster than others, some will employ chemical warfare, and others will simply block the available light.  If totally left alone, I think you'd eventually end up with just a couple of corals that have out competed the others.

Have you ever wanted to just see what would happen? like a small experiment tank. I would be kinda fascinated to see what the outcome would be..

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I’m glad to see so many people touting the simple approach. I’m starting up a tank for the first time in about 4 years and plan to keep it extremely simple - a standard 5.5 gallon, ABI par 38 bulb, 25w Cobalt Neotherm heater (fixed at 78  degrees), and a Koralia Nano 240

 

That’s it for equipment, no mechicanical or chemical filtration and no dosing whatsoever. I’ll only be testing salinity when mixing water and topping off by hand

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43 minutes ago, 4Swanson2Reefer0N00b said:

I will ask this-as far as hands off approaches and simplicity go how do people feel about coral interaction?  What I mean is my tank is getting crowded and things are growing into each other's spaces...

In my 12g I've had 10 years of things growing into, on top of, underneath, around the sides...

 

Basically, if it isn't in danger of being annihilated, then I just let it be.  Can be ugly at first, but it's surprising how the balance of power tends to equalize over an extended period of time (nature always tries to find an equilibrium).  However, as a new reef aquarist, I'd suggest that you err on the side of caution and intervene if you see major damage occurring to prized coral.

 

Here's an example of a number of my different coral species that have been interacting for quite some time now:

 

 

12g Coral Interaction Detail.jpg

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