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elevated and climbing zinc


NanoRox

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ATI testing 3 months ago was 10,  Now ATI came back and its 21 (reports it as critical although my corals look great).  I cant find any metal in the tank.  wiring is sound.  magnets look fine.  I am using a DIY mesh cover that uses what appears to be an aluminum frame.  Could that be leeching zinc into the tank?   Looks like I need to make a water change after all. 

 

In the mean time, I am wondering what people think about the Triton Detox product that reportedly will bind to the heavy metals in the water.  any other suggestions?  

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I don't test those parameters. Sorry can't help.

 

There are trace elements in every salt. 

 

Most of us use window framing for our mesh lids and without issue.

 

The only param I regularly test is alk and weekly sg.

 

All else is now monthly.

 

I've learned over testing creates over stressing, which causes hobbyists to over work the system leading to more problems than not.

 

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I completely agree.  In this case however the ATI test (where you mail it in) specifically read “critically high zinc” so that made me pause with some concern 

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@Duane Clark, that's kewl you got that test.  Working in avian husbandry, I know we have to be particularly careful about what wiring we use for cages.  Some metals are purposely coated in zinc to galvanize the steel...making it anti-corrosive but potentially an issue for parrots who like to climb and "test" the wiring.

 

Yet, is the cover even touching the water?  I suppose over a long period of time, the evaporating water may wear and chip away the zinc but not sure if it can dissipate into the air and enter the water that way--I'd imagine it would have to be submersed but you never know.

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While researching zinc in aquariums I came upon several articles about zinc and parrot poisoning.  I had no idea it was such an issue.  

 

In in my case here I think the only real course of action is to make more regular water changes.  Not because of any organics  but because of the heavy metal which is slightly disappointing since I have been trying to keep the water changes to a minimum. 

 

  The cover does not touch the water but there is some salt on the edges that perhaps drops back into the tank while taking the cover off and on.  I’m not really sure.  In time I will get an acrylic cover I think.  

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1 minute ago, Duane Clark said:

While researching zinc in aquariums I came upon several articles about zinc and parrot poisoning.  I had no idea it was such an issue.  

 

In in my case here I think the only real course of action is to make more regular water changes.  Not because of any organics  but because of the heavy metal which is slightly disappointing since I have been trying to keep the water changes to a minimum. 

 

  The cover does not touch the water but there is some salt on the edges that perhaps drops back into the tank while taking the cover off and on.  I’m not really sure.  In time I will get an acrylic cover I think.  

I have limited experience in customizing things for tanks, but I have heard about some paints being reef safe once dried and cured.  Maybe you can research which ones are and coat the frame?

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15 minutes ago, Aurortpa said:

I have limited experience in customizing things for tanks, but I have heard about some paints being reef safe once dried and cured.  Maybe you can research which ones are and coat the frame?

That’s a good idea!!

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Looks like you use Kalkwasser, so at least some of the Zinc is likely from this source and the rest from the salt mix.

 

In case you haven't seen this, BRS released a video where they detail the different types of impurities in various brands of Kalkwasser:

 

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video/view/comparing-different-kalkwasser-additives-with-certified-icp-ms-testing-brstv-investigates/

 

Looking specifically at Zinc:

 

2051541434_BRSKalkwasserTestZinc.JPG.c85541216134d8c674b3bcb98dc81c1c.JPG

 

Should you be worried?.  Whenever I am confronted with this question in reef keeping, I 'ask' my corals and if they give me the polyp equivalent of a 'thumbs up'...as they say down under, "No worries, mate!"  ☺️

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1 minute ago, Nano sapiens said:

Looks like you use Kalkwasser, so at least some of the Zinc is likely from this source and the rest from the salt mix.

 

In case you haven't seen this, BRS released a video where they detail the different types of impurities in various brands of Kalkwasser:

 

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video/view/comparing-different-kalkwasser-additives-with-certified-icp-ms-testing-brstv-investigates/

 

Looking specifically at Zinc:

 

2051541434_BRSKalkwasserTestZinc.JPG.c85541216134d8c674b3bcb98dc81c1c.JPG

 

Should you be worried?.  Whenever I am confronted with this question in reef keeping, I 'ask' my corals and if they give me the polyp equivalent of a 'thumbs up'...as they say down under, "No worries, mate!"  ☺️

You may have answered this for me.  I use brightwell.  That is the most plausible reason.  Funny thing is I watched that video and completely forgot about that.   switching to BRS looks like a wise decision.   In the mean time since the corals still look good I will not act too quickly.  

 

Thanks again!!! 

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This type of testing is great.  Especially when the aim is less water changes.  The reason for high levels isn't always obvious, but figuring it out puts us on a better path.  That's something which hasn't always been available to us.  Very cool.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 9/6/2018 at 2:18 PM, Duane Clark said:

reports it as critical although my corals look great)

I trust your corals.

 

Unless ATI provided some detail as to why this is supposed to be a concern I'd consider it just another data point whose significance has yet to be shown.

 

A quick google gave me...

(https://doi.org/10.1016/S0025-326X(98)00183-0) which suggests that zinc isn't much of a concern at least for coral reproduction:

"Copper was the most toxic metal, whereas cadmium and zinc did not affect fertilization success at the concentrations tested. High fertilization rates of 91% ± 3.2% and 93% ± 4.0% were recorded in the copper controls and in 2 μg/l of copper, respectively. However, fertilization success was significantly reduced to 41% ± 7.1% at 20 μg/l of copper, and <1% fertilization occurred at 200 μg/l of copper. In contrast, high fertilization rates were recorded in controls and in all concentrations of cadmium up to 200 μg/l, and in all concentrations of zinc up to 500 μg/l."

 

As well as: High zinc exposure leads to reduced dimethylsulfoniopropionate (DMSP) levels in both the host and endosymbionts of the reef-building coral Acropora aspera which looks at one aspect of zinc toxicity to coral, and which also indicates no reason to worry unless your levels are really, really high.

 

The most I'd do

As long as your salt mix matches tank conditions reasonably well, the most I'd do is a couple large water changes....up to 100% total if you want.  I've done this a few times....doing them big takes the lions share of the work out of it, and still gives your water a solid refresh.

 

Limits on water change size for reef tanks are greatly overstated IMO and I think have to do more with cost of ongoing water changes than the capability of the tank to "withstand" them or anything like that.  Real reefs get 100% water changes from several times a day up to many-several-times a day, depending on the reef....not 10% a week or month. 😉

 

But if I were in your shoes 

I think I'd wait and see – don't go trying to fix what isn't broke, eh?  Perhaps rotate out your food sources (likely the biggest overall input to the tank) one at a time for either a substitute food item or for nothing and see if that change shows up in your zinc tests over a then next few weeks/months, etc.

 

What are the actual levels they are they reporting to you, BTW?

 

$0.02

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On 9/6/2018 at 2:18 PM, Duane Clark said:

aluminum frame.  Could that be leeching zinc

I don't think that would make sense.  Al doesn't need a zinc coating.  (Check out the Properties section on aluminum oxide at wikipedia)  That's the point of using it in this kind of role I think.  (Window screening, that is....assuming you're using window screen parts/frames.)  

Quote

Aluminium oxide is responsible for the resistance of metallic aluminium to weathering. Metallic aluminium is very reactive with atmospheric oxygen, and a thin passivation layer of aluminium oxide (4 nm thickness) forms on any exposed aluminium surface.[9] This layer protects the metal from further oxidation.

 

Weathering and service life of anodized aluminium - Qualanod indicates that as long as your aluminum is just in the air, it's not at risk at all.  There would also be an obvious visual sign if the frame was being corroded somehow.  (If it's submerged, then I think we don't need a report to tell us the problem. :D)

 

And in any event, it would be leaching Al not Zn, so I bet we can rule the lid out.

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Mcarroll, I get what you are saying specifically about zinc (just about everything is hazardous at a high enough level).  However, it can also be an indicator of a problem which might actually have an effect, and we might ask why is there an elevation (and is it continuing to rise).  Is it being imported through food or some sort of contaminate, like an impurity in something we dose, or something in our tanks (a rusty screw or deposit in one of our rocks)?

 

The elevation of zinc could be accompanied by the elevation of other elements (such as in the case of rusting alloys).  Some of these elements might not be included in these "comprehensive" tests.  Harry found a rusty razor blade in his sand bed.  Others have found rusty screws as a result of tests which showed elevated levels of metal.  Will these make a big difference?  IDK, maybe, as you say, if levels get high enough.

 

IMO, the real benefit of these comprehensive tests is discovering imbalances, like high levels due to continuing imports (or contaminants), or deficiencies due to consumption or inherent low level in our salt mixes.  For example, over time, dosing certain two part solution recipes could result in high sodium or chloride concentrations.  Often we rely on water changes to restore these imbalances (exporting excesses and restoring deficiencies).  However, efforts to reduce water changes makes these tests even more interesting.

 

I agree that corals can be an excellent indicator of a problem (some more so than others).  However, they may not always give us the reason why, and damage can often be done before we figure out the cause.  These tests might allow to catch a problem before it affects our livestock.  Disclaimer, I have never used these tests; not because I feel they are not valuable, but because of the costs of ongoing testing.  However, I guess that  I would be interested in doing some spot checks, maybe like once a year.

 

Like you said, water changes could be the answer, as could looking into your feeding or dosing routines.  I just think it's neat that we have these tools which might give us a heads up (before we see visible signs of trouble).

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I am pretty sure the zinc is coming from my kalkwasser.  I am going to change brands to BRS.   As to it’s level it was the only metal showing up in my testing.  I am pretty sure I don’t have any other issues going on.  I agree the corals are the primary indicators but I also think there is value in seeing issues that may develop later.   Love the discussion.  Thanks so much! 

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