skijumpersc Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 I noticed last night that my clown's pectoral fins are looking kind of ragged. Nothing else seemed to be amiss with her and shes been eating well for awhile. I've been battling high nitrates so I did a 25% last night in case poor water quality was causing it. This morning she had a really long stringy white poop coming out. Can internal parasites lead to fin degradation?Right now I'm leaning towards metroplex and focus as my best course of action. If anyone has any better ideas though, I'm all ears Quote Link to comment
Clown79 Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 Do you feed mysis often because that can cause white poop. How high are your nitrates? Quote Link to comment
skijumpersc Posted August 16, 2018 Author Share Posted August 16, 2018 I have noticed it after feeding mysis, but I haven't done that in over a week. They were 40-50 Quote Link to comment
Clown79 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 If your nitrates are that high, a larger waterchange is needed. 50% will drop it by 50%. But you need to figure out why your nitrates are that high and correct the cause. 1 Quote Link to comment
skijumpersc Posted August 17, 2018 Author Share Posted August 17, 2018 13 hours ago, Clown79 said: If your nitrates are that high, a larger waterchange is needed. 50% will drop it by 50%. But you need to figure out why your nitrates are that high and correct the cause. I'm trying to figure that out, I think part of it was stirring the sand bed and releasing a bunch of stuff as well as overfeeding possibly at first. The tank was established when I bought it and I think the move stirred up a bunch of debris. I also tried no pox dosing, but I overdosed it at first and have been dealing with a bacteria bloom since then. I'm wondering if the bacteria had something to do with the fin issue besides the nitrates. I've since stopped dosing no pox and have cut back my feeding quite bit, but I'm still not sure how they got so out of hand so quickly. Quote Link to comment
Aurortpa Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 I don’t believe nitrates at that level will usually cause fin degradation. Tested for ammonia? Are there other tank mates, how long have you had the clown, and did you bathe or quarantine? Quote Link to comment
skijumpersc Posted August 17, 2018 Author Share Posted August 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Aurortpa said: I don’t believe nitrates at that level will usually cause fin degradation. Tested for ammonia? Are there other tank mates, how long have you had the clown, and did you bathe or quarantine? ammonia is zero. There is a molly miller blennie, but they never interact. The clown has been in the tank for a couple years, but I've only had it for a couple months. The molly miller was not really QT'd so that could be a culprit, but I had noticed the clown having stringy poop in the past before the bennie was introduced. It was very sporadic, I'd only seen it twice before in the time I've had him. Quote Link to comment
Aurortpa Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Sometimes just depends what they eat, like @Clown79 said about the mysis. My clowns on a rare occasion have weird 💩. However, it is possibly she was already infected and maybe the move just weakened her immune system. Frayed fins to me is more alarming and conspicuous that she is having other issues too. Frayed fins can be a symptom of external parasites. I am not too familiar with metroplex but sounds promising. As a precaution, I’d run some fresh carbon to minimize impact of meds being released in the water. Also follow directions closely, I read it potentially impacts the kidneys. On a side note, had to look up “mollie miller blenny” so cute, look like little mudskippers 🙂 Quote Link to comment
Clown79 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 10 hours ago, skijumpersc said: I'm trying to figure that out, I think part of it was stirring the sand bed and releasing a bunch of stuff as well as overfeeding possibly at first. The tank was established when I bought it and I think the move stirred up a bunch of debris. I also tried no pox dosing, but I overdosed it at first and have been dealing with a bacteria bloom since then. I'm wondering if the bacteria had something to do with the fin issue besides the nitrates. I've since stopped dosing no pox and have cut back my feeding quite bit, but I'm still not sure how they got so out of hand so quickly. Ah. Yes old sand should not be reused without thoroughly washing it. Its best to replace it with new sand. Vacuuming and stirring sand is completely safe and advised but only when the sand has been taken care of from day one. Being it was previously owned, who knows what the maintenance was on the sand bed. A lot of nasties are in old sand and disturbing it can cause more than just nutrients to be disturbed. There are a few factors here that could be at play Old sand being disturbed New fish not qt'd Nopox overdose and bacterial bloom (Nopox must be used with a powerful skimmer) Its hard to say. Frayed find can be caused from injury, ammonia exposure, disease, and aggression from other fish. White poop can be internal parasites or even foods. Quote Link to comment
skijumpersc Posted August 17, 2018 Author Share Posted August 17, 2018 59 minutes ago, Clown79 said: Ah. Yes old sand should not be reused without thoroughly washing it. Its best to replace it with new sand. Vacuuming and stirring sand is completely safe and advised but only when the sand has been taken care of from day one. Being it was previously owned, who knows what the maintenance was on the sand bed. A lot of nasties are in old sand and disturbing it can cause more than just nutrients to be disturbed. There are a few factors here that could be at play Old sand being disturbed New fish not qt'd Nopox overdose and bacterial bloom (Nopox must be used with a powerful skimmer) Its hard to say. Frayed find can be caused from injury, ammonia exposure, disease, and aggression from other fish. White poop can be internal parasites or even foods. yeah I wish I'd known that about the sand before I bought the tank, at this point its been disturbed and vacuumed a lot so I'm hoping the worst is past. The nopox was a bummer, I was following the directions on the bottle, but after reading the forums it seems like thats not the right way to do things and I needed to start with a much smaller dose than they recommended. I'm trying to come up with a diy turf scrubber to help with nitrates, I've got the tunze doc 9004 skimmer, but it never seems to really be doing much, my skim mate is pretty clear even when its running pretty dry. I've been running chemipure elite and purigen as well. After some research I may try vinegar dosing, it seems like people have had good results with that Quote Link to comment
Clown79 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 1 hour ago, skijumpersc said: yeah I wish I'd known that about the sand before I bought the tank, at this point its been disturbed and vacuumed a lot so I'm hoping the worst is past. The nopox was a bummer, I was following the directions on the bottle, but after reading the forums it seems like thats not the right way to do things and I needed to start with a much smaller dose than they recommended. I'm trying to come up with a diy turf scrubber to help with nitrates, I've got the tunze doc 9004 skimmer, but it never seems to really be doing much, my skim mate is pretty clear even when its running pretty dry. I've been running chemipure elite and purigen as well. After some research I may try vinegar dosing, it seems like people have had good results with that Vinegar dosing also known as carbon dosing can easily go bad. Its considered a method used for very experienced hobbyists. What type of tank do you have What filter media is used/ how often changed What do you feed and how often/much What's the water change schedule and do you vacuum sand every week and Turkey bast the rocks? What is the water source? Sorry for all the questions but it will help break down where the nutrients are coming from and how to correct it. It's better to evaluate and correct than jump to carbon dosing, nopox, etc. These are band aids, the minute you stop, the problem will return. Chemipure is a carbon with some gfo in it. Gfo helps with phos. It also doesn' last as long as claimed. 1 Quote Link to comment
Oldsalt01 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Ah, Clown79 is a wise grasshopper indeed. You need to stop jumping from one bandaid fix to another and figure out where the nutrients are coming from. As much of a pia as changing out the sand can be from a labor intensive perspective, it's not really that big of a deal. The secret is in thorough rinsing of the new sand before putting it into the tank (and yes, it is important you rinse the new sand. No matter what the mfgr tells you, elimination of as much of the fines...dust..., and possible detritus will go a long way to keeping the tank stable). You can keep a cup or so of the original if you feel you need to "seed" the new . There are several posts on this forum on the correct way to do it. Once done, you really won't have to worry about a mini-cycle as the rock and your filtration should maintain your chemistry. Possibly the most important opinion I can give you is: Much like setting up a race car, don't change more than one thing at a time. If you change two things and it works, you won't know which one was the culprit and which one worked. I'd start with the sand and go from there. As for the frayed fins, it's can be an indication of a bacterial infection, although that's not a hard/fast rule. Did the fin issue arise after the intro of the Blenny? If so, I'd suspect a hitchhiking infection on the new guy. Blenny's as a rule are pretty resistant to infections, but like tangs, can easily intro nasties into an otherwise healthy tank. That's why we tend to push for QT'ing ALL new arrivals for at least 4 weeks. 1 Quote Link to comment
skijumpersc Posted August 17, 2018 Author Share Posted August 17, 2018 3 hours ago, Clown79 said: Vinegar dosing also known as carbon dosing can easily go bad. Its considered a method used for very experienced hobbyists. What type of tank do you have What filter media is used/ how often changed What do you feed and how often/much What's the water change schedule and do you vacuum sand every week and Turkey bast the rocks? What is the water source? Sorry for all the questions but it will help break down where the nutrients are coming from and how to correct it. It's better to evaluate and correct than jump to carbon dosing, nopox, etc. These are band aids, the minute you stop, the problem will return. Chemipure is a carbon with some gfo in it. Gfo helps with phos. It also doesn' last as long as claimed. Ive got filter floss that I change every other day, I'm cutting back on my feeding, I think that was the main culprit. Ive been changing water every week, at least 5 gallons. Wednesday I did 10, nitrates tested at 40 again this morning. The nitrate issue didn't arise until a few weeks after I moved with the tank. If the sand bed was the cause wouldn't they jump way up after the move since all the sand was really disturbed? It seems to have crept up over the course of the first month. I've been vacuuming and basting every water change, as well as siphoning out my rear chamber. I use RO/DI water so that shouldn't be an issue. today I'm going to do another 13 gallons to try and see if I can get a handle on this, I'm planning on pulling some of my rocks out and giving them a good clean in the old tank water and see if that helps Quote Link to comment
skijumpersc Posted August 17, 2018 Author Share Posted August 17, 2018 I think the sand bed needs to go, I did a deep clean, scrubbed a bunch of rocks in the bucket of old water, siphoned out the rear chambers really well and vacuumed a lot of the sand bed. When I started adding the new water I disturbed the sand bed in one corner and it looked like a typhoon of crap. most of it is dead algae and clumps of bacteria from the bloom I had. I don't know how much that stuff turns into nitrates, but it didn't look ideal. I haven't found a great thread on replacing it so far, but the two main ways of doing it that I've found are siphon and replace a section at a time during your weekly water change or take everything out and replace it all in one go. I think all at once is the method I would prefer to use. What kind of sand do you recommend? Quote Link to comment
Clown79 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 1 hour ago, skijumpersc said: I think the sand bed needs to go, I did a deep clean, scrubbed a bunch of rocks in the bucket of old water, siphoned out the rear chambers really well and vacuumed a lot of the sand bed. When I started adding the new water I disturbed the sand bed in one corner and it looked like a typhoon of crap. most of it is dead algae and clumps of bacteria from the bloom I had. I don't know how much that stuff turns into nitrates, but it didn't look ideal. I haven't found a great thread on replacing it so far, but the two main ways of doing it that I've found are siphon and replace a section at a time during your weekly water change or take everything out and replace it all in one go. I think all at once is the method I would prefer to use. What kind of sand do you recommend? You can change the sandbed all at once. The beneficial bacteria is in the rocks. I changed my sandbed due to choosing one that caused nothing but issues. I did the following. First, rinse all new sand thoroughly until it runs clear. Tap water is fine to rinse with. My last rinse I do with rodi and add prime just to be safe. Make new sw Siphon water from tank into buckets. I used 3 buckets 1. For livestock 1. For water from tank to add back in 1. For rocks Place livestock in one bucket with an air hose or powerhead. Remove rocks and place in another other bucket.(this should be the last step as the remaining water can't be reused once sand is disturbed) Siphon sand out of the tank. Clean any detritus from the glass. Add rocks, add new sand, add saved water and new water. Ensure parameters are the same and tank is clear enough to see the back wall Then add livestock. Quote Link to comment
skijumpersc Posted August 18, 2018 Author Share Posted August 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, Clown79 said: You can change the sandbed all at once. The beneficial bacteria is in the rocks. I changed my sandbed due to choosing one that caused nothing but issues. I did the following. First, rinse all new sand thoroughly until it runs clear. Tap water is fine to rinse with. My last rinse I do with rodi and add prime just to be safe. Make new sw Siphon water from tank into buckets. I used 3 buckets 1. For livestock 1. For water from tank to add back in 1. For rocks Place livestock in one bucket with an air hose or powerhead. Remove rocks and place in another other bucket.(this should be the last step as the remaining water can't be reused once sand is disturbed) Siphon sand out of the tank. Clean any detritus from the glass. Add rocks, add new sand, add saved water and new water. Ensure parameters are the same and tank is clear enough to see the back wall Then add livestock. Great, that seems pretty doable. so you added 2 buckets worth of new water and tossed the water that the livestock and rocks were in? did you have to reacclimate the livestock or just toss them back in? What kind of sand did you go with? Quote Link to comment
Clown79 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 3 hours ago, skijumpersc said: Great, that seems pretty doable. so you added 2 buckets worth of new water and tossed the water that the livestock and rocks were in? did you have to reacclimate the livestock or just toss them back in? What kind of sand did you go with? I tried saving as much as possible from the tank so I wouldn't need to make a lot of new water. The water with the rocks for sure I didn't keep. I only had 1 fish at the time so I put him in a larger tupperware on his own. I did the same thing with my tank transfer. I use caribsea sand. I like the Fiji pink but there are other types available. I didn't acclimate my livestock because temp, salinity, alk was the same. 1 Quote Link to comment
Aurortpa Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 I highly recommend this if all other options have been exhausted. Quote Link to comment
skijumpersc Posted August 19, 2018 Author Share Posted August 19, 2018 On 8/17/2018 at 10:05 PM, Clown79 said: I tried saving as much as possible from the tank so I wouldn't need to make a lot of new water. The water with the rocks for sure I didn't keep. I only had 1 fish at the time so I put him in a larger tupperware on his own. I did the same thing with my tank transfer. I use caribsea sand. I like the Fiji pink but there are other types available. I didn't acclimate my livestock because temp, salinity, alk was the same. did you use the caribsea live sand or can I do it with dry? I don't know if all options have been exhausted, but with this sand bed being at least two years old, and not know how the other owner took care of it, I think that starting with fresh sand and having chance to clean all the shit off the rocks can't hurt at least. Quote Link to comment
Clown79 Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 29 minutes ago, skijumpersc said: did you use the caribsea live sand or can I do it with dry? I don't know if all options have been exhausted, but with this sand bed being at least two years old, and not know how the other owner took care of it, I think that starting with fresh sand and having chance to clean all the shit off the rocks can't hurt at least. No changing the sand won't hurt, if anything its beneficial. I've used dry or livesand, no difference. Both need washing. Just try to choose 1 that isn,xt too small in grain size like oolite pr too big like the black caribsea. Are the rocks full of algae? Quote Link to comment
skijumpersc Posted August 19, 2018 Author Share Posted August 19, 2018 21 minutes ago, Clown79 said: No changing the sand won't hurt, if anything its beneficial. I've used dry or livesand, no difference. Both need washing. Just try to choose 1 that isn,xt too small in grain size like oolite pr too big like the black caribsea. Are the rocks full of algae? Yeah and lots of detritus Quote Link to comment
Clown79 Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 Can you post a pic of the rocks. Quote Link to comment
skijumpersc Posted August 20, 2018 Author Share Posted August 20, 2018 7 hours ago, Clown79 said: Can you post a pic of the rocks. I was elbow deep in my tank earlier, but here's a pic of the tank after the sand swap. I did a bunch of rinsing and scrubbing of the rocks, but didn't manage to totally destroys the algae that was on them. Pay no mind to that light in the back of the tank, i'm working on a diy scrubber Quote Link to comment
skijumpersc Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 Well, a couple days in and my tank is looking way better, my corals are happier than I've seen them! The clown seems to be in limbo. One of his fins is improving quite nicely, and the other is still getting worse Quote Link to comment
Aurortpa Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 On 8/20/2018 at 12:48 AM, skijumpersc said: Pay no mind to that light in the back of the tank The light in the back is kind of kewl actually 🙂 Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.