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Cultivated Reef

Should I reset, and restart the cycle?


Ackbar

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Setup a new 10 gallon tank about three weeks ago. I get the feeling I've way over fed my bacteria culture during the first week, and my Nitrite and Nitrate levels have been off the chart for about a week. Going along with my over-doing-it mistakes I also added an entire shrimp (not thinking about scale) to the 10 gallon tank during the first week to kick-start the ammonia.

 

So, in what I expected to see,. I got an ammonia spike, then a nitrite spike and then my nitrates started rising. The problem I've having is my Nitrites are now not falling, and my nitrates seem to not be able to fall with water changes as well. At this point I went and bought a bit of fish store water to test my testing kit on - and was able to read normal levels.

 

Over the last week I've done a 50% water change and then 20% water changes every other day(two so far) to try and bring the Nitrate levels down, but my latest testing just shows them back above 160ppm. I'm getting the feeling I've overdone it at the start so hard I either need to ignore it until the Nitrites start to fall and then start changing out the water again until its a safe level for a fish; or I could drain the whole thing and re-start with a new sand bed... With the tank being so small I don't want a ton of toxins sitting down in there waiting to crash itself when I'm at work, and this is totally not the time to look at something like dosing vodka. Hell you tell me, maybe I'm just in the middle of said cycle and need to chill; but in my eyes, nothing to hurt in the tank right now so its easy to format and reinstall.

 

One thing of note, regained the interest after living out of state for five years. The salt mix I used was my original salt mix from that tank. I assumed that stuff would not really go bad. All water used to mix has been distilled and mixed in new clean buckets for 8+ hours. 

 

PH AMM NITRI NITRA SAL TEMP DATE changes
8.4 0.25 0 5 -   07/22/2018 Setup, heater, lights, skimmer(off), meida basket, filter floss, chemipure blue, rock, sand
7.8 0.25 0 0 -   07/23/2018  
8 0.25 0 0 -   07/24/2018  
8.2 0.25 0 0 -   07/25/2018  
8.2 0.5 0 5 1.022 77.2 07/26/2018  
8 0.5 0 0 1.024 77.9 07/28/18 Shrimp, removed chemi pure and filter floss
8 2 0 0 1.023 77.2 07/29/2018  
8 4 0 0 1.024 77.4 07/30/2018  
8 4 0.25 5 1.024 80.2 07/31/2018  
8 4 1 20 1.025 79 08/01/2018  
8 4 1 40 1.0245 79.3 08/02/2018  
8 2 2 80 1.024 81.1 08/03/2018  
8 0.25 5 80 1.023 81.3 08/04/2018 Tested testing kit
8 0 5 160 1.024 80.8 08/05/2018

40% water Change, Skimmer ON, chemi pure, filter floss, removed large shrimp chunks

8.4 0 5 160 1.025 78 08/05/2018 - Evening  
8 0 5 160/80 1.025 77.9 08/06/2018  
8 0 5 80 1.024 77.2 08/06/2018 - Evening Compared new testing kit to expired ones, expired kit had noticeable crystals in the tube - the same color.
8 0 5 40 1.024 77.5 08/07/2018 results done pre-water change
8 0 5 40 1.026 77.4 08/08/2018  
8.2 0.5 5 20 1.025 78.4 08/09/2018 2 Gallon Water change, ATO installed - not turned on
8 0.25 5 160 1.025 77.8 08/10/2018 carbon sponge added to filter

 

Equipment: 

 

IM Nuvo 10

 - Stock return pump

 - Spin Stream

 - Kessil A80, mechanical timer 6am-8pm, 100% intensity and color

 - Generic Heater

 - Inn tank media basket

    - IM sponges listed in notes (no phosphate sponge)

    - Chemi Pure Blue

 - Desktop Ghost Skimmer

 - Ice Cap ATO

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Sponges are a no go...... toss them.  They only collect bad stuff. Most people use filter floss and change it often. 

 

Do you test the water before you change it? 

 

If the source water is good I would just do a few more water changes and see if the level goes down. 

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DSFIRSTSLTWATER

+1 to what WV said. You don't have to start over just let it do its thing. You can do water changes to help bring the levels down. Also you don't have live stock so you'll be fine. Just take things slow and you should be good. Also your nitrates aren't going to fall themselves you will have to do water changes to get that down to the right levels.

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A Little Blue

Hopefully you don’t have some sort of crap leaching from your dry rock. If your rock is fine, I would just wait, do 2 %50 WC within a week and chill. 

 

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Couldn’t he just let the cycle finish, letting the nitrites drop, then do a 90-100% water change to get the nitrates out?

 

 

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DSFIRSTSLTWATER
11 minutes ago, banasophia said:

Couldn’t he just let the cycle finish, letting the nitrites drop, then do a 90-100% water change to get the nitrates out?

 

 

I would think so. The nitrites will drop as the bacteria consume it. The high nitrates will have to be addressed but I would wait till the cycle is done.

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Thanks for the responses! I'll pull the sponges out, and just try to water change the nitrates to manageable levels. I've only tested the nitrates on the incoming water, and just this last time, but it was clearly yellow. I nabbed an upgraded pump today hoping better circulation will help as well.  

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DSFIRSTSLTWATER

Keep at it. Be patient and it'll all come together. The more things you change at once the worse of you'll be. That's one thing that's super hard to do is not changing things. Make small moves see how it pans out and let it ride. You'll get it 🙂 good luck

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Get rid of the sponge, filter floss cut to size and switched out 2 times a week is far more beneficial. 

 

Do a 100% water change.

 

Nitrite is not toxic to marine fish, and the nitrates will not drop significantly with small waterchanges..

 

Doing a 100% waterchange will get rid of the nitrates, reduce nitrites, and will harm nothing.

 

The bacteria is in the rocks, very little in water.

 

Nitrites being at 5 or higher will process but it will take longer.

 

The problem with using a shrimp or food method cycling: you have no control in how much ammonia is produced and it adds unnecessary waste in the tank.

 

 

I would remove sponge(its a nutrient factory), vacuum the sand, blast rocks with a Turkey baster, do 100% waterchange.

 

What is your water source and have you tested it for tds and nitrates?

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It's still cycling.  Wait.

 

Give it a month or 6 more weeks.  It will settle down.  Your ammonia and nitrites will go to zero in their own time.

 

The nitrates will have to be removed via water changes.  But not necessary until AFTER your ammonia and nitrites are zero.

 

Don't add anything.  Just let it sit there and mellow.  Reefing is a slooooooow hobby.

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On 8/12/2018 at 7:55 AM, Clown79 said:

 

 

Do a 100% water change.

 

Doing a 100% waterchange will get rid of the nitrates...

 

 

...do 100% water change...

 

 

See the theme? Do this. Do it 100 and 10%

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If ammonia is at 0, which I believe the op said it was, then doing a100% water change is completely safe.

 

If ammonia is above 5ppm them a water handle will correct things as it often can stall or take forever to process once it hits 5ppm or higher.

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I don’t really understand why he wouldn’t just ride it out and do the 100% water change after the nitrites come down to 0? What about adding some extra Biospira and possibly some matrix media. 

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When I cycle tanks I dose ammonia regularly and by the end I have a crap load of nitrates requiring multiple 100% WC to get them down. Sure it's a bit of a pain but by the end I know I have a solid bio filter built up. 

 

So I would just let ammonia and nitrates fall naturally to 0. Then keep adding an ammonia source until your tank can convert 1-2 ppm with 24 hours. Once it can youre cycled. Then just do as many WCs as necessary to bring nitrates to 5 or less. Like I said it might take a lot of WCs. 

 

It wouldn't hurt to do WCs during the cycle, as long as your not removing most of the ammonia and nitrite, but I just don't bother. But if you don't want to do a bunch of WCs at once just follow the steps above but do a WC everytime ammonia and nitrate read 0, then repeat until cycled. 

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6 hours ago, banasophia said:

I don’t really understand why he wouldn’t just ride it out and do the 100% water change after the nitrites come down to 0? What about adding some extra Biospira and possibly some matrix media. 

Because his nitrites are sitting at 5ppm.

 

5ppm or higher can take a very long time to process or may not at all- a stalled cycle.

 

His nitrite hasn't moved and it because its above the recommended level during cycling.

 

You want ammonia to reach 2ppm and process that within 24hrs, same with nitrite.

 

His ammonia going from 0 to 0.2 is nothing, that could be a false positive which is more likely as his nitrites didn't rise but still sat at 5ppm.

 

Doing a waterchange during cycling will not harm a thing. Even all the water removed.

 

 

Biological filtration isn't in the water, it's in the rocks. If it was in the water, we wouldn't need the liverock.

 

If waterchanges hurt during cycling then it would be redundant to do daily waterchanges on a newly set up qt tank that has ammonia present or doing waterchanges in a tank that's cycling with fish.

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1 hour ago, Clown79 said:

Because his nitrites are sitting at 5ppm.

 

5ppm or higher can take a very long time to process or may not at all- a stalled cycle.

 

His nitrite hasn't moved and it because its above the recommended level during cycling.

 

You want ammonia to reach 2ppm and process that within 24hrs, same with nitrite.

 

His ammonia going from 0 to 0.2 is nothing, that could be a false positive which is more likely as his nitrites didn't rise but still sat at 5ppm.

 

Doing a waterchange during cycling will not harm a thing. Even all the water removed.

 

 

Biological filtration isn't in the water, it's in the rocks. If it was in the water, we wouldn't need the liverock.

 

If waterchanges hurt during cycling then it would be redundant to do daily waterchanges on a newly set up qt tank that has ammonia present or doing waterchanges in a tank that's cycling with fish.

Hmmm... okay, just trying to understand this well, so I appreciate your explanation. Since the nitrates keep going up, it would make me think it’s not actually stalling because the nitrites are making all those nitrates. I would have thought that meant nitrites are being processed by that type of beneficial bacteria, but those bacteria just haven’t built up enough yet to convert it all and get it down to zero. I would have just added more Biospira or waited it out. All those water changes are a lot of extra work for a newbie, if not really necessary, so just wanting to understand better. Will plan to do more research on stalled cycles this evening, and appreciate the info @Clown79... my two tanks cycled fast since I used cured Liferock, Nutri-Seawater, and BioSpira. 

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FYI thanks for the continued help all - I've done a five gallon water change last Sunday and I've got another five mixing up for today, planning on doing two gallon changes every other until Sunday - Giving it the week to report back. 

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7 hours ago, banasophia said:

Hmmm... okay, just trying to understand this well, so I appreciate your explanation. Since the nitrates keep going up, it would make me think it’s not actually stalling because the nitrites are making all those nitrates. I would have thought that meant nitrites are being processed by that type of beneficial bacteria, but those bacteria just haven’t built up enough yet to convert it all and get it down to zero. I would have just added more Biospira or waited it out. All those water changes are a lot of extra work for a newbie, if not really necessary, so just wanting to understand better. Will plan to do more research on stalled cycles this evening, and appreciate the info @Clown79... my two tanks cycled fast since I used cured Liferock, Nutri-Seawater, and BioSpira. 

It doesn't really matter as doing a water change will not harm or effect a cycle.

 

You don' want nitrites or ammonia at or above 5ppm.

 

The op has had ammonia process already, nitrates will continue to rise because of the method of cycling done. It's a dirty method and if there is a sponge in the filter the nutrients will continue to rise.

 

Nitrates will not drop until all that water is changed.

 

Instead of wasting time with 3g, 5g water changes which have been and continue to be not only a waste of time, water, and salt but quite ineffective, as they have been- a 100% waterchange will not only be effective but won't hurt a thing

 

A clean and proper cycle you won't see ammonia or nitrites hit 5ppm or more therefore allowing the cycle to go on with no waterchanges is not only fine but typical process.

 

When you have ammonia or nitrites hit 5ppm and not move(as the op is experiencing) you have to take action to correct things. 

 

This is not an uncommon issue, quite a few go through this and it's the same scenario every time someone's nitrite hits 5ppm or higher.

 

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yeah I feel ya; It's mostly that drawing 5 gallons out pretty much depletes the display - I've got an upgraded return pump coming tomorrow (Sicce Syncra 0.5). I'll just double up on my mix bucket at home and wait till that comes to drain the whole thing.

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Yea, that's a good write up. 

 

one thing I've never understood is the belief than a bacteria and/or algea bloom is a given when starting a reef. 

 

Unless you're giving the tank a ton of red green spectrum while nitrates are high there's no reason you should have issues. And people will say, just wait, it'll happen, but again unless you have a ton of nutrients and are providing the right spectrum it shouldn't. 

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10 minutes ago, MrObscura said:

Yea, that's a good write up. 

 

one thing I've never understood is the belief than a bacteria and/or algea bloom is a given when starting a reef. 

 

Unless you're giving the tank a ton of red green spectrum while nitrates are high there's no reason you should have issues. And people will say, just wait, it'll happen, but again unless you have a ton of nutrients and are providing the right spectrum it shouldn't. 

Also it needs to be introduced. I agree with you. The “new tank uglies” are not a part of anything real. Should be renamed “new user #### ups”.  

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2 minutes ago, 1891Bro said:

The “new tank uglies” are not a part of anything real. Should be renamed “new user #### ups”.  

 

Totally agree. I do live sand, dry rock, a bit o bottled bacteria, and add some (small amount) of livestock a day or two later. Ive started a bunch of tanks this way and never encountered an issue. The "uglies" are usually bad starting material (Dirty/Pest filled rock) or overfeeding. 

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I myself only had the real uglies with my 5g start up and it wasn't that bad. It was my first time cycling with food and I believe that helped the algae bloom but it didn't last more than a few waterchanges.

 

 

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