WV Reefer Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 13 minutes ago, FISHnChix said: Oh and this little sissy has been hard to take a photo of , so this is the best I got.. ignore those little flat worms all over the glass🤦♂️(looks like it's on the fish huh haha) .. got to get rid of those things... That’s a nice looking fish. 😊 1 1 Quote Link to comment
ECLS Reefer Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 hour ago, FISHnChix said: Anyone else still test all their params?? Been awhile since I tested everything and I had some free time so I got after it.. everything seems good. Alk is drifting higher so i had to cut the doser back a little.. been feeding reefroids daily to bring up the phos a bit.. got it up from .05 to .1 so we will see if things look or grow better.. I sure wish Hanna would make a magnesium and nitrate checker. 1 Quote Link to comment
FISHnChix Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 54 minutes ago, Dirté Sanchez said: I sure wish Hanna would make a magnesium and nitrate checker. I really really like the salfert mag test. Very easy to read for me 2 Quote Link to comment
FISHnChix Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 Well shit. I was joking about my fish not having ich bc the photo looked like it had white spots bc of the flatworms on the glass.. serously the tang didnt have one spot on it 4 hours ago. Went to go watch tha tank just now and the tang is seriously COVERED in white spots.. fml I know better and should have quarantined .. how could this happen sooo fast.. crazy.. 4 Quote Link to comment
FISHnChix Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 Check this out.. how the heck can this happen in 3 hours??? 3 1 Quote Link to comment
mcarroll Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 4 hours ago, FISHnChix said: Well shit. I was joking about my fish not having ich bc the photo looked like it had white spots bc of the flatworms on the glass.. serously the tang didnt have one spot on it 4 hours ago. Went to go watch tha tank just now and the tang is seriously COVERED in white spots.. fml I know better and should have quarantined .. how could this happen sooo fast.. crazy.. Freshwater dip, ASAP (and as-needed daily) until spots stop showing. Feed to the max. (Mostly either frozen or live, no dry food.) Should recover fine if the tank and other fish are well-established and healthy. But if you have any doubts or trouble catching him for the dips... Add a right-sized (or even slightly oversized) UV filter set to proper LOW FLOW to cut down on swarmers. A micron filter like Marineland's Polishing filter or the classic Vortex diatom filter can remove swarmers as well. A further step you can take to help them is a reef-safe tank treatment like Kick Ich and/or Rally. Remember that the fish's immune system is the cure, not any of this other stuff. All you can do is use tools like these to help it recover to the point that the fish can cure itself. As long as he's eating well, there should be no reason to worry. OTOH, if his eating status changes at all, it may be worth catching him out of the tank for a more specific treatment, like copper. Ditto if you're not around a lot to notice changes. Catch him out and treat him ASAP in that case. (Think most folks have tanks cuz they can be around to watch 'em though!! Hope this is your case.) 4 Quote Link to comment
ECLS Reefer Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 9 hours ago, FISHnChix said: I really really like the salfert mag test. Very easy to read for me No it’s easy, I just wish I could have one brand for everything, and I like the Hanna checkers. Really I wish they’d get on it with the nitrates. 1 Quote Link to comment
ECLS Reefer Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 2 hours ago, mcarroll said: Freshwater dip, ASAP (and as-needed daily) until spots stop showing. Feed to the max. (Mostly either frozen or live, no dry food.) Should recover fine if the tank and other fish are well-established and healthy. But if you have any doubts or trouble catching him for the dips... Add a right-sized (or even slightly oversized) UV filter set to proper LOW FLOW to cut down on swarmers. A micron filter like Marineland's Polishing filter or the classic Vortex diatom filter can remove swarmers as well. A further step you can take to help them is a reef-safe tank treatment like Kick Ich and/or Rally. Remember that the fish's immune system is the cure, not any of this other stuff. All you can do is use tools like these to help it recover to the point that the fish can cure itself. As long as he's eating well, there should be no reason to worry. OTOH, if his eating status changes at all, it may be worth catching him out of the tank for a more specific treatment, like copper. Ditto if you're not around a lot to notice changes. Catch him out and treat him ASAP in that case. (Think most folks have tanks cuz they can be around to watch 'em though!! Hope this is your case.) I used kick ich and rally a few weeks ago when my Evo got cold stressed and the fish got spots. I did pull them out for a week of copper first but then put them back when I realized the heater and controller weren’t on the same page and water was cold. But the kick ich and rally seemed to help finish their recovery in tank, which was good. Feed garlic too. 3 Quote Link to comment
spectra Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 8 hours ago, FISHnChix said: Well shit. I was joking about my fish not having ich bc the photo looked like it had white spots bc of the flatworms on the glass.. serously the tang didnt have one spot on it 4 hours ago. Went to go watch tha tank just now and the tang is seriously COVERED in white spots.. fml I know better and should have quarantined .. how could this happen sooo fast.. crazy.. Well it is a tang.................. After picking up my achilles I grabbed a UV also...........fish looks great but its just a matter of time before it gets ich............seems like just looking at them wrong can cause it to happen............ 5 Quote Link to comment
FISHnChix Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 5 hours ago, mcarroll said: Freshwater dip, ASAP (and as-needed daily) until spots stop showing. Feed to the max. (Mostly either frozen or live, no dry food.) Should recover fine if the tank and other fish are well-established and healthy. But if you have any doubts or trouble catching him for the dips... Add a right-sized (or even slightly oversized) UV filter set to proper LOW FLOW to cut down on swarmers. A micron filter like Marineland's Polishing filter or the classic Vortex diatom filter can remove swarmers as well. A further step you can take to help them is a reef-safe tank treatment like Kick Ich and/or Rally. Remember that the fish's immune system is the cure, not any of this other stuff. All you can do is use tools like these to help it recover to the point that the fish can cure itself. As long as he's eating well, there should be no reason to worry. OTOH, if his eating status changes at all, it may be worth catching him out of the tank for a more specific treatment, like copper. Ditto if you're not around a lot to notice changes. Catch him out and treat him ASAP in that case. (Think most folks have tanks cuz they can be around to watch 'em though!! Hope this is your case.) Thanks for the info.. yea I don't think I will be able to catch him with out destroying my tank.. sucks.. I will try the uv.. my lfs is horrible when it comes to foods. All I have is frozen brine shrimp, pellets , and nori.. had the fish since saturday and he hasnt eaten much... I do commute for work , and there is a pretty nice lfs around me . I will stop by today and see what they have for live food.. 2 Quote Link to comment
WV Reefer Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 13 minutes ago, FISHnChix said: Thanks for the info.. yea I don't think I will be able to catch him with out destroying my tank.. sucks.. I will try the uv.. my lfs is horrible when it comes to foods. All I have is frozen brine shrimp, pellets , and nori.. had the fish since saturday and he hasnt eaten much... I do commute for work , and there is a pretty nice lfs around me . I will stop by today and see what they have for live food.. Hopefully he can fight it. 🤞🏻 4 Quote Link to comment
Tired Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 I wonder if you could rig in some kind of big fish trap, like a giant version of the bottle ones, to get him. Ich is often present in fish, relatively contained, below the surface of the skin. When stress lets it get the upper hand, it appears. The fish was already infected, the ich was just hiding. Poor lil guy. He should be alright, but he must be so itchy! A touch of garlic on the food may help get his attention. Don't use it long-term, there's some debate on if that's healthy, but temporary use to get him eating is fine. You can probably order some food online. If you really can't get frozen food at all, freeze-dried (rehydrated in water with a touch of garlic before feeding! Never feed just dehydrated food) is still fairly nutritious. 2 Quote Link to comment
DSFIRSTSLTWATER Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Aww man, sorry about the sick fish . 1 Quote Link to comment
FISHnChix Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Tired said: I wonder if you could rig in some kind of big fish trap, like a giant version of the bottle ones, to get him. Ich is often present in fish, relatively contained, below the surface of the skin. When stress lets it get the upper hand, it appears. The fish was already infected, the ich was just hiding. Poor lil guy. He should be alright, but he must be so itchy! A touch of garlic on the food may help get his attention. Don't use it long-term, there's some debate on if that's healthy, but temporary use to get him eating is fine. You can probably order some food online. If you really can't get frozen food at all, freeze-dried (rehydrated in water with a touch of garlic before feeding! Never feed just dehydrated food) is still fairly nutritious. Yea I thought about tring to trap him or catch the little guy, but I wonder if the stress of capturing it would do more harm than good..I was also thinking about trying the garlic dip, some say it even boosts their immune system .. not sure if I buy that but would be worth a try.. now do i have to find a garlic fish product or can i use some fresh garlic or that minced garlic stuff that comes in a jar. 🤣 1 Quote Link to comment
Ratvan Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 46 minutes ago, FISHnChix said: Yea I thought about tring to trap him or catch the little guy, but I wonder if the stress of capturing it would do more harm than good..I was also thinking about trying the garlic dip, some say it even boosts their immune system .. not sure if I buy that but would be worth a try.. now do i have to find a garlic fish product or can i use some fresh garlic or that minced garlic stuff that comes in a jar. 🤣 Fresh garlic cloves is fine. The minced stuff as long as it's in brine should be ok once rinsed. 1 Quote Link to comment
ECLS Reefer Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Or when you stop by your LFS for meds see if they have seachem Garlic Guard. 1 Quote Link to comment
Tired Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Okay, just to be clear: the garlic is for the FOOD. You should not dip your entire fish in anything containing notable amounts of garlic. That would probably burn their gills. 1 Quote Link to comment
mcarroll Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 7 hours ago, spectra said: seems like just looking at them wrong can cause it to happen............ THAT is no joke....maybe even just breathing near them. LOL. @FishN’Chick, it's that thin slime coat and their natural M.O. that makes then so susceptible in aquariums. They really just have very low tolerance compared to many fish so even the minor stresses seem to really wear on them. I think it's at least partly (maybe totally) this phenomena: Red fish, blue fish: trade-offs between pigmentation and immunity in Betta splendens In a nutshell: Some fish are built for resistance and some are built for procreation....two different strategies vs pathogens....and Achilles' being all black doesn't seem to leave much room for those crucial pigments related to immunity. IMO that translates to a VERY high need to have these pigments in their daily diet if they have no (or low) bodily reserves. There's also this, however.... From the scrawny info available on wikipedia it sounds like they could be expected to like cooler waters than most reef tanks provide... A quote from Wikipedia: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acanthurus_achilles) Quote It is found in various reefs of Oceania, up to the islands of Hawaii and Pitcairn. The fish is also, although less commonly, found in the Mariana Islands and even some reefs in southern Mexico and Guatemala. Related info from google: Quote The warmest sea in Australia and Oceania today is 31°C/88°F, and the coldest sea temperature today is 4°C/39°F. Quote As a general rule, Hawaiian waters average 77 degrees in the wintertime to 82 degrees in the summertime. Quote Sea water temperature throughout Northern Mariana Islands warms above 20°C/68°F and it is enough for a comfortable bath. The warmest sea temperature inNorthern Mariana Islands today is 30°C/86°F, and the coldest sea temperaturetoday is 29°C/84°F. Quote Sea water temperature throughout Guatemala warms above 20°C/68°F and it is enough for a comfortable bath. The warmest sea temperature in Guatemala today is 31°C/88°F, and the coldest sea temperature today is 30°C/86°F. Quote This is quite a bit cooler that the tropics....only the peak summer temps appear to reach tropical levels. Lows ranging from 39 to 86ºF puts the cool average around 62ºF for their range. Highs ranging from 82-88ºF place the average around 85ºF. The average for teh Achilles' range would be about 74ºF. Compare this with numbers from (eg) Indonesia: Quote The warmest water in Indonesia is in Biak where water has 30.5 degrees celsius. On the contrary, the lowest temperature is in Cilacap where water has only 27.3 degrees celsius. That's a tiny range of temperatures, from the low of about 81ºF up to 95ºF. Average? 88ºF. Can't say what you should do, but here's what I'd do: I would probably run my tank as close to 74ºF as I could without undue hassle and without a chiller. I would jack up the live/frozen food quotient using food items with nice red/orange pigments like "reef plankton", krill, calanus, etc. Fresh algae that's growing in the tank with him would be the best supplement to this diet. He's eating algae + epiphytes that way...could be (should be) a lot more nutrition than algae alone. Mostly that's it, in addition to the anti-pathogen suggestions made earlier of course. 👍 Do the best you can if there's no algae growth for him. I don't know how beneficial most commercially prepared algae food formulas really are, so research if that's all you can do. They never seemed to have the positive impact on marginal tangs for me that I expected. "Real food" as described above did the trick 99% of the time though. Maybe run a fertilizer program on the tank to encourage algae growth if you need to...or the opposite, and cut back on your cleanup crew to give the Tang more opportunity. Mostly a judgement call on how to play the algae front. There are other options too... The upside to this is that if the Achilles really is mostly healthy (and the tank and other fish are too) then they tend to weather these repeated bouts of ich pretty well. On the other hand, if the tank or other fish were new, or they were otherwise under stress or unhealthy (for any reason) then this could be a bad scenario for them even if the Achilles turns out fine. Another area for your judgement since I can't know any of that. 😉 If you need to catch him and can't trap him, I don't recommend chasing with a net. Try a fishing line and hook...there's fly-fishing gear (hooks and line) that's small enough, and you can get barbless hooks, or sand the barb off. Trapping is easier on most folks since they get weirded out by the hook and line, but it rarely works. Hook and line may seem weird, but it's WAY less stressful than a net chase around the tank....and has much less chance of wrecking your tank than a net chase. 😆 It's also the fastest way I've seen. But start with what seems best to you. Traps do work sometimes. 1 Quote Link to comment
FISHnChix Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, mcarroll said: THAT is no joke....maybe even just breathing near them. LOL. @FishN’Chick, it's that thin slime coat and their natural M.O. that makes then so susceptible in aquariums. They really just have very low tolerance compared to many fish so even the minor stresses seem to really wear on them. I think it's at least partly (maybe totally) this phenomena: Red fish, blue fish: trade-offs between pigmentation and immunity in Betta splendens In a nutshell: Some fish are built for resistance and some are built for procreation....two different strategies vs pathogens....and Achilles' being all black doesn't seem to leave much room for those crucial pigments related to immunity. IMO that translates to a VERY high need to have these pigments in their daily diet if they have no (or low) bodily reserves. There's also this, however.... From the scrawny info available on wikipedia it sounds like they could be expected to like cooler waters than most reef tanks provide... A quote from Wikipedia: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acanthurus_achilles) Related info from google: The average for teh Achilles' range would be about 74ºF. Compare this with numbers from (eg) Indonesia: That's a tiny range of temperatures, from the low of about 81ºF up to 95ºF. Average? 88ºF. Can't say what you should do, but here's what I'd do: I would probably run my tank as close to 74ºF as I could without undue hassle and without a chiller. I would jack up the live/frozen food quotient using food items with nice red/orange pigments like "reef plankton", krill, calanus, etc. Fresh algae that's growing in the tank with him would be the best supplement to this diet. He's eating algae + epiphytes that way...could be (should be) a lot more nutrition than algae alone. Mostly that's it, in addition to the anti-pathogen suggestions made earlier of course. 👍 Do the best you can if there's no algae growth for him. I don't know how beneficial most commercially prepared algae food formulas really are, so research if that's all you can do. They never seemed to have the positive impact on marginal tangs for me that I expected. "Real food" as described above did the trick 99% of the time though. Maybe run a fertilizer program on the tank to encourage algae growth if you need to...or the opposite, and cut back on your cleanup crew to give the Tang more opportunity. Mostly a judgement call on how to play the algae front. There are other options too... The upside to this is that if the Achilles really is mostly healthy (and the tank and other fish are too) then they tend to weather these repeated bouts of ich pretty well. On the other hand, if the tank or other fish were new, or they were otherwise under stress or unhealthy (for any reason) then this could be a bad scenario for them even if the Achilles turns out fine. Another area for your judgement since I can't know any of that. 😉 If you need to catch him and can't trap him, I don't recommend chasing with a net. Try a fishing line and hook...there's fly-fishing gear (hooks and line) that's small enough, and you can get barbless hooks, or sand the barb off. Trapping is easier on most folks since they get weirded out by the hook and line, but it rarely works. Hook and line may seem weird, but it's WAY less stressful than a net chase around the tank....and has much less chance of wrecking your tank than a net chase. 😆 It's also the fastest way I've seen. But start with what seems best to you. Traps do work sometimes. Ha I have tried the hook when I was catching a wrasse.. almost worked but hook was a little too big... Thanks for the info but old man spectra was talking about his new fancy tang🤣. The tang that I have that has ich is a yellow kole eye tang.. I was actually reading some stuff about raising the tank temp a few degrees to like 82.. you ever come across that helping in a REEF tank?? 2 1 Quote Link to comment
mcarroll Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 LOL....I actually thought that was the case, but then I re-read the earlier posts and changed the quote....DOH! @spectra that was for you! LOL 2 1 Quote Link to comment
spectra Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, mcarroll said: LOL....I actually thought that was the case, but then I re-read the earlier posts and changed the quote....DOH! @spectra that was for you! LOL I actually run my tank around 76 to 77 may lower it a little...….. I just know the achilles and powder blue are some of the worst ich magnets around...……..WTF was I thinking oh well fingers crossed...……... 3 1 Quote Link to comment
mcarroll Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, spectra said: I actually run my tank around 76 to 77 may lower it a little...….. I just know the achilles and powder blue are some of the worst ich magnets around...……..WTF was I thinking oh well fingers crossed...……... That's already pretty moderate on temp., but if you can go a little lower without effort, might be worth a try. 1 Quote Link to comment
FISHnChix Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 Well got some new food and tang still wont come out of his cave and eat.. tried mysis yesterday and no go. Tried this blue pack today soaked in garlic guard for 10 mins and nope.. got a piece of nori clipped in front of his cave and no bites yet.. going to try that brine shrimp next.. dunno what to do.. if he wont eat he is not going to make it 3 1 Quote Link to comment
ECLS Reefer Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 minute ago, FISHnChix said: Well got some new food and tang still wont come out of his cave and eat.. tried mysis yesterday and no go. Tried this blue pack today soaked in garlic guard for 10 mins and nope.. got a piece of nori clipped in front of his cave and no bites yet.. going to try that brine shrimp next.. dunno what to do.. if he wont eat he is not going to make it That sucks I’m sorry. You can’t set up a small QT for him? Even a 10g for a while with some copper might save him. Quote Link to comment
FISHnChix Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 13 minutes ago, Dirté Sanchez said: That sucks I’m sorry. You can’t set up a small QT for him? Even a 10g for a while with some copper might save him. Yea I have a tank ready to go but no way to get him out of the rocks.. food womt get him into a trap or on a hook.. Weird thing is I can shine a flashlight on him and the white spots are not there from what I can see.. odd.... 1 Quote Link to comment
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