Handling zoa help please!!

[Gaviota]

Hi folks. I got a coral from a friend who made no mention of this being potentially dangerous. I was messing with the thing in the tank, used mostly tongs bit set it on the counter and carelessly went about arranging stuff. All kinds of cross contamination  I'm sure  Whet for help idenrifyomg it on here some one said it was a zoa maybe so I googled and and am freaking out that it could have poisoned me. I feel basically fine and was handling it about 5 hours ago, but I had it in the kitchen and have kids. How concerned do I need to be????

[Kellie in CA]

I'm kind of confused on the details. You put the zoa rock on the counter? If so, just clean the area really well and be sure to wash your hands after working in the tank. 

 

I have been handling zoas for 15+ years and have never had any problems. 

[Aurortpa]

THis is a popular misconception. Not all true zoas are toxic, most of the colorful ones are actually typically safe. It’s usually the “button” polyps—palythoa, typically much bigger than zoas that can be potentially toxic. 

[Gaviota]

Yes. I had it on the counter, I was trying to glue to to a rock.

 

Yes I know. Idiot.

[Gaviota]

[Kellie in CA]

That's actually a really nice one!  I really don't think you have anything to worry about. 

[Aurortpa]

I concur with @Kellie in CA.  I also agree with her statement to always rinse hands before working in tank and wash hands afterwards. Definitely don’t use any tools you would eat with in your tank. 

[Gaviota]

Geez. "Thanks friend" you think she could have maybe given me some heads up! ??  obviously don't know anything about this other than I thought it could be a fun relaxing hobby. Wasn't aware I would be bringing a viper into my home! 

So this particular one doesn't appear to be the make you drop dead kind?

[Aurortpa]

It appears to be a safe one. Don’t worry, many of us have worked for many years in reef aquaria without any major incident.  Just stay informed by asking questions just like you did. 🙂

[Gaviota]

Thank you guys! Won't do that again! Went OCD with bleach in the kitchen  im sure ill do the same tommorrow. I'll get a pic once it opens up hoping someone can ID the actual  variety. 

[mndfreeze]

Palythoa's are the ones with the nasty toxin and even a lot of those species don't have dangerous levels of it.  Just putting the rock on your counter isn't going to poison you.  Even if it was a paly chances are you would be fine.  Now if you chewed on one.... or stabbed it with a fork then licked it... or had cuts on your hands and were directly touching it...

 

There are some paly's that have high concentrations of palytoxin that SUPPOSEDLY can aerosol up when working and get into the air making people feel sick.  I have seen 2 articles on it, both of which had some horrific misinformation and needed correction though and were only so-so in the trustworthiness department.

 

[Gaviota]

Hi guys. Wanted to update. So after trying to smash the polyp ontol a rock with gorrilla glue and setting it onto the counter and squeezing the thing with tongs (because I'm an idiot and was completely unaware there could be any hazard) i learned that it probably maybe wasn't the best thing to do. After reading everyone's.responses I was pretty assured I wasn't going to get sick n die. The following morning I woke up with conjunctivitis and a twitching left eye. It continues. Going to need antibiotics. Feel otherwise fine. I have no idea if it's directly correlated. Could just be allergies, but it is a possibility of was from the coral as I haven't had conjunctivitis but one time before in my life. I have read some medical publications this morning (scientific papers, not online accounts) and nearly all mention the risk of eye issues after the toxin is aresoled so of course it is plausible that's what's wrong with my eye. Just FYI. 

[Kdrof]

I know many people have not had trouble, but after reading many horror stories with these it may not be worth the risk. I just picked up powder free gloves and goggles for when I am fragging them. Also, I may wear gloves when digging around in the tank. I know there is a wealth of knowledge on here, but I am not betting my life on forum knowledge, so might be a good thing to play it safe. (I hope I don’t offend anyone who commented. I always appreciate input and feedback from the community). We can’t be sure we have dealt with the same Zoa/paly you have. I have seen many varieties called the same name. I have read on sites where people criticize like your less of a man if you protect yourself... you’d rather be safe than sorry with this. Also, I’d at least document or inform significant other etc. what you were doing and potentially touching so if you are impacted by neurotoxicans, etc. you can get the correct medical help... Because my wife has no clue what a “zoa” is or anything... she knows we have fish and coral. I am not trying to sound overly paranoid, but it may prevent panic episodes in the future. Anyhow, glad you are okay. 

[Gaviota]

I agree. In my lame state plastic bags and straws are illegal so is soda for kids, which I don't agree with but I do find it odd that there isn't much credible information on the toxicity of the wide variety of unresearched marine life out there available to basic families and people. 

[MainelyReefer]

2 hours ago, Gaviota said:

I woke up with conjunctivitis and a twitching left eye

If you have kids the odds are more likely you got poop in your eye.  Or in your panick from the Zoa you scratched your butt then your eye.  Or someone farted on your pillow case.  Possibilities are endless with kids and I think if palytoxin got in your eye and all that happened was some pussy/crusty grossness that would be pretty ok in my books.(funny homograph pussy is..... damn the English language.)

[Aurortpa]

Yes just pays to be careful, anything can be dangerous really...even rose thorns while gardening can give you tetanus, mishandling reptiles can transmit salmonella, a very upset spouse can make your ears bleed—risks everywhere unfortunately.  

 

Im definitely not a doctor but conjunctivitis is a locaclized infection, whereas paly is a toxin that affects your entire system. 

[Gaviota]

21 hours ago, GraniteReefer said:

If you have kids the odds are more likely you got poop in your eye.  Or in your panick from the Zoa you scratched your butt then your eye.  Or someone farted on your pillow case.  Possibilities are endless with kids and I think if palytoxin got in your eye and all that happened was some pussy/crusty grossness that would be pretty ok in my books.(funny homograph pussy is..... damn the English language.)

Actually, the odds would be in the favor of the paly's/zoa although i'm not convinced that was the cause either way. Correlation doesn't equal causation, I know this. However, I have had children for 10 years and changed diapers 8-3 times per day, each day, for 2 years each child (having two). and never once had any eye issues during that time. I have messed with zoa one time, rather carelessly and delvoped an eye issue within 24 hours. The likelihood is actually, statically speaking in favor of the zoa. 

 

That said, I do understand it could be any other host of causes. While i'm a total idiot (self proclaimed) in my carelessness handling a creature a know little about, I am actually a rather educated individual with a minor in economics, a bachelors in urban planning, and a year of graduate work in aquaculture. 

 

I do value the responses on here, as most were so helpful! However, I'm a touch concerned about the volume of forum responses in general that profess there's little likelihood of an issue with handling zoa and paly. Actually it's quite fascinating! How come some people can handle some and have no issue for years on end and others happinstancedly have major issues for seemingly no reason? I just think the scientific community information is a bit limited and not readily accessed by hobbyists, especially those who have had decent luck.

 

Consider the vast array of species of zoa and the complicated symbiotic relationships we don't quite understand and I certainly think its a grey area in the hobby and in understanding in general. Gonna be researching this topic for a while as I find it pretty interesting.

 

Articles containing quality research and conclusive findings on palytoxin and associated species:

 

1) Palytoxin Found in Palythoa sp Zoanthids Sold in the Home Aquarium Trade

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51042509_Palytoxin_Found_in_Palythoa_sp_Zoanthids_Anthozoa_Hexacorallia_Sold_in_the_Home_Aquarium_Trade

most people would benefit from scrolling down and selecting "results and discussion" and read that section; although the rest is pretty interesting also.

These researchers have managed to isolate a few species sold commonly in their area (DC) that do pose a significant threat. They also found some that were of little threat.  

 

2) Suspected Palytoxin Inhalation Exposures Associated with Zoanthid Corals in Aquarium Shops and Homes

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6431a4.htm

 

Visual Reference to Labratory Tested Species know to Cause Playtoxin Posioning events through a variety of mechanisms

 

sAlternate Text: The figure above is a picture of a zoanthid colony associated with palytoxin toxicity in patients, Anchorage, Alaska, in August 2014. (toxic reaction occurred as the result of coral being exposed to the air)

Some of these were highly toxic, some were weakly or non toxic for individual descriptions view: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6431a4.htm

 

Zoanthid colony responsible for a severe respiratory reaction, collected from a home aquarium in 2008.

 

 

I am reviewing some of the literature on dinos too, as they may seem to be a potential means of posing a health threat both symbiotically and idenpendently of the zoa/paly themselves.

 

 

Edited July 10, 2018 by Gaviota
updated and added references

[Aurortpa]

Well, our tanks are an entire ecology of bacteria from decaying matter, fish poop, and such so there should be general precautions...that’s why i rinse my hands thoroughly before going in and then wash afterwards.

 

Zoas is really an all encompassing term for these corals...it’s actually an order name. So the family, genus, and species of most zoas we desire aren’t even in the family that palythoa are.  It’s like how we named horsecrabs...in reality they aren’t really crabs, they are closer related to spiders. 

 

For example, pic cred to wiki: 

here is one suspect paly...

order zoantharus

family sphenopidae

genus palythoa

 

 

And then here is a commonly collected zoa...

order zoantharus

family zoanthidae

genus zoanthus

 

If you want to really have a guarantee you have safer corals go with aquacultured ones by ORA perhaps?  

[Gaviota]

Very helpful advice. Thank you!

[banasophia]

@Gaviota, being new to the hobby myself I was quite surprised by the extent to which people minimize the risk of palytoxins. The March/April 2018 volume of Coral magazine that came out right when I was setting up my tank had an article “Palytoxins in the Aquarium: A Real Health Risk” which alerted me to the issue, but as I asked around as I was stocking my tank, the staff at my LFSs were all steering me toward zoas as a good beginner coral with no mention of the risks or any need for special handling. Personally I don’t want to have to worry so much when I’m working on my tank, so I avoid zoas and palys... tons of other coral options out there...

[Sancho]

I had a simaler experience with brown paly’s. Was messing with the rock in my tank and probably rubbed my eyes. Woke up the next morning to pink eye like symptoms and flu like body aches. We all react different to many of the toxins found in many of the species we keep and it’s always advisable to wear gloves when handling corals. Leaving a rock on the counter in all likelyhood posed no risk. Just clean your workspace and hands to prevent any contamination. Just don’t boil them, put them in a blender and if cutting rock with a band saw wear eye protection. 

[Floundering_Around]

I've never had any symptoms after handling my zoas however, I have had corals squirt out water/toxins at me. It luckily missed my eyes.

All corals and anemones are toxic to an extent. Most of the time, they release their toxin in the water column as a form of chemical warfare against other corals that are getting too close. That being said, any and all coral can squirt at you. Anemones are also dangerous. Just like zoas, most people don't have a problem with theirs but many have been stung (quite badly). MileHighReefers on YouTube got badly stung by his anemone and ended up bedridden with flu-like symptoms, lethargy, etc.

I also don't feel it was solely your friend's responsibility to tell you the coral was toxic; they may have assumed you had done your own research beforehand. Research is the key to this hobby and without doing proper you'll fail more than you succeed by going in blind.

In the future, invest in a pair of latex gloves. The pair I use is from Walmart, is powder-free, and is elbow length. If you feel like you need it for normal handling, a pair of goggle that fully covers your eyes (not glasses but chemistry goggles) to cover your eyes.

Just make sure you don't boil any rocks from your tank; many people do this to get rid of unwanted corals, disease, or pest and subject themselves to highly aerosolized toxin, leading to extreme illness or rarely death.