Cannedfish Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Currently I have an AI Prime HD over an Innovative Marine Fusion 10 gallon, running a modified BRSTV schedule (attached). I love the light, but similar to main LED lighting user have had issues with shadowing. Unfortunately, due to my tank's size T5's aren't really an option, nor is upgrading the tank size. I was wondering if I could mitigate the shadowing issue by adding a second AI Prime HD, mounting both Prime's with swivels to camera flash bar attached to the flexible mounting arm such that they would be towards the edge of the tank and angled inwards (see below). If I do this I was wondering how the PAR of two pucks equate. For example, if I were to run 2 lights at 50%, would their combined light 'beam' equal one light at 100%. My main concern is, if I install a second light, at which percentage would I have to turn them both down to in equal the output of my current single light (to prevent bleaching, before ramping the lights up)? For discussion sake let's just assume I am running the currently light at 100%. In addition to the shadowing issue, I would like to do this get increase my tank's overall PAR a bit. Furthermore, I believe this a better solution than upgrading to a Hydra 26 because 1) I already have a Prime; 2) this setup will provide the ability/flexibility to direct the individual light beams. Disclaimer: (because I know it's coming) before @HarryPotter lights me up with a smart-ass remark about a PAR meter, I know this would alleviate a lot of this uncertainty, unfortunately I don't have easy access to one. Also additional thoughts / suggestions / comments welcome. Quote Link to comment
Clown79 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 How can you have shadowing on the 10g IM? How low is your light to the water surface? The Prime highest levels are 18x18 but the light is often used on 24x24 with no issues. As corals grow, they will cause shadows. Adding another light may or may not prevent that from ocurring. On a 10g, 2 Primes seems excessive and both will need to be run on low percentages. Quote Link to comment
Cannedfish Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 15 minutes ago, Clown79 said: How can you have shadowing on the 10g IM? How low is your light to the water surface? The Prime highest levels are 18x18 but the light is often used on 24x24 with no issues. As corals grow, they will cause shadows. Adding another light may or may not prevent that from ocurring. On a 10g, 2 Primes seems excessive and both will need to be run on low percentages. I appreciate the reply! I know it's summer and NR has been slower than usual but I was starting to get worried... I even tried being thorough by including a poorly drawn picture with my question (instead of the normal thread entitled: "what fish should I get," first message: "see title" ... thanks). I thought I would at least have someone from the lounge reply "go back to art school" or "don't quit your day job" or some meme involving Kate Upton. I have the light about 10" above the tank, and find there is a noticeable shadowing effect, which, as you pointed out, is amplified by growth. I even see shadowing on the vertical backsides of some acros, and figured by counter-angling two light beams I could significantly minimize this affect. Furthermore, I would like to get a bit more PAR than the single puck is currently providing at my current settings (below), without having to turn up the cool whites on my light. I believe BRSTV noted that under their Ecotech mimic settings (which I am quasi-running) the PAR value at a 6" depth measured at around 200. I would like to push that to 300-350 or possibly a bit higher. I just wasn't sure if I ran two lights that individually had a PAR value at 6" of 200 would their PAR value add up to a PAR of 400 or something else at that depth. I don't know I guess I could always try it and if it is a totally and utter disaster and I melt my tank, burn down the neighborhood, and somehow trigger an earthquake it would be a good lesson for everyone else in not being an idiot (may need to check whether my umbrella liability insurance includes "starting earthquakes..."). Quote Link to comment
mitten_reef Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 You can try to guesstimate your PAR from the Hydra 26HD published data? Your proposed layout will likely put them a few inches further apart than the 26 - but just rough estimate? http://www.aquaillumination.com/lighting/hydra/ Quote Link to comment
Cannedfish Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, micoastreefing said: You can try to guesstimate your PAR from the Hydra 26HD published data? Your proposed layout will likely put them a few inches further apart than the 26 - but just rough estimate? http://www.aquaillumination.com/lighting/hydra/ That's probably the best thing to do; I probably should have thought of that. As someone who is about to put the power of @DaveFason's Hyper-Sun-Death-Star (official name) above your tank, what do you think? Could it work? Maybe I can start pulling some colors out of some sticks. Also two other important things: 1) how was vacay? and 2) Ghost in the Machine (LA's #1 beer IMO) just released, still up for the beer swap (@tanacharison)? Quote Link to comment
mitten_reef Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 5 hours ago, Cannedfish said: That's probably the best thing to do; I probably should have thought of that. As someone who is about to put the power of @DaveFason's Hyper-Sun-Death-Star (official name) above your tank, what do you think? Could it work? Maybe I can start pulling some colors out of some sticks. Also two other important things: 1) how was vacay? and 2) Ghost in the Machine (LA's #1 beer IMO) just released, still up for the beer swap (@tanacharison)? I think more light will certainly help with growth, but colors are less light dependent. Lower light, with the right blend, could produce better overall colors. Oh, and consistent settings, no weekly tweaks. Look at Dave's tank, he only lights that thing with a duo, and the colors are awesome in there. The dude sets it and forgets it. Colors have quite a bit more to do with water chemistry/chemical balance. Excess nutrients ( which you mentioned you're battling somewhat on you tank thread) could cause the browning of your corals, considering that one PrimeHD is more than capable of keeping the growth going just fine. My personal theory on this is because of all the amazing colors produced by the ultra low nutrient method tanks, and that's why there are the triton, ATI, AF methods out there. Which brings me back to that the more growth u get, the less excess nutrients - hopefully, it'll balance itself out. I also believe in even blanket of light, because of the success of t5ho-lit tanks. So yeah more led sources at lower intensities will still make sense to me. But I like pure led over t5, just for the sake of less energy use. Of course, any of these theories/ideas are just me winging it, but it's been ok for me so far. Vaca was good, went to three different lakes up north (Boyne and charlevoix), some pontoon-ing on Walloon lake. Beer swap sounds interesting, be sure to ask about troegs beers from PA. Quote Link to comment
DaveFason Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 I did not have time to read back but you are adding one of my lights or just Primes? Like @micoastreefing the quality of light, consistency and params are much more important. Quote Link to comment
Cannedfish Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 On 7/6/2018 at 8:27 PM, micoastreefing said: I think more light will certainly help with growth, but colors are less light dependent. Lower light, with the right blend, could produce better overall colors. Oh, and consistent settings, no weekly tweaks. Look at Dave's tank, he only lights that thing with a duo, and the colors are awesome in there. The dude sets it and forgets it. Colors have quite a bit more to do with water chemistry/chemical balance. Excess nutrients ( which you mentioned you're battling somewhat on you tank thread) could cause the browning of your corals, considering that one PrimeHD is more than capable of keeping the growth going just fine. My personal theory on this is because of all the amazing colors produced by the ultra low nutrient method tanks, and that's why there are the triton, ATI, AF methods out there. Which brings me back to that the more growth u get, the less excess nutrients - hopefully, it'll balance itself out. I also believe in even blanket of light, because of the success of t5ho-lit tanks. So yeah more led sources at lower intensities will still make sense to me. But I like pure led over t5, just for the sake of less energy use. Of course, any of these theories/ideas are just me winging it, but it's been ok for me so far. Vaca was good, went to three different lakes up north (Boyne and charlevoix), some pontoon-ing on Walloon lake. Beer swap sounds interesting, be sure to ask about troegs beers from PA. I definitely hear you on growth and nutrients. I have been getting pretty good growth and since I have figured the dosing pump out and gotten the phosphate issue under control, and things have been coloring back up. And I 100% agree with you about consistency and stability over PAR. That being said, and this may be nit picking a bit, but I would like to even out the lighting, add a tiny bit more PAR, and reduce some shadowing, and I'm thinking that adding a second puck may help increase coverage. But who knows, I think since I have essentially run out of room for frags and gotten the tank to a stasis of more or less stability, my self-destructive side is itching to screw things up. Plus how am I supposed to earn these Delta Miles! Fun fact and slight coincidence: I know I like to posture as a good ole Southern Boy, but I am originally from Boyne City and grew up on the west arm of Walloon Lake just past the narrows. I don't miss the winters, but there are few places better in the summer. 38 minutes ago, DaveFason said: I did not have time to read back but you are adding one of my lights or just Primes? Like @micoastreefing the quality of light, consistency and params are much more important. Thinking of adding another Prime (since I already have one), until I manage to figure a competent solution and convince you to create a minimalist 11 inch LED/T5 hybrid, and turn the manufacturing of said light into a North Carolina fishing trip. Just kidding. As stated above, I agree about the consistency/stability/parameters being the most important, I'm just curious if adding a second puck (at an angle; see diagram above) would help distribute the light and reduce some shadowing. Do you feel like there is a significant reduction in shadowing from the Nanobox Mini to the Duo? Quote Link to comment
DaveFason Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 46 minutes ago, Cannedfish said: I definitely hear you on growth and nutrients. I have been getting pretty good growth and since I have figured the dosing pump out and gotten the phosphate issue under control, and things have been coloring back up. And I 100% agree with you about consistency and stability over PAR. That being said, and this may be nit picking a bit, but I would like to even out the lighting, add a tiny bit more PAR, and reduce some shadowing, and I'm thinking that adding a second puck may help increase coverage. But who knows, I think since I have essentially run out of room for frags and gotten the tank to a stasis of more or less stability, my self-destructive side is itching to screw things up. Plus how am I supposed to earn these Delta Miles! Fun fact and slight coincidence: I know I like to posture as a good ole Southern Boy, but I am originally from Boyne City and grew up on the west arm of Walloon Lake just past the narrows. I don't miss the winters, but there are few places better in the summer. Thinking of adding another Prime (since I already have one), until I manage to figure a competent solution and convince you to create a minimalist 11 inch LED/T5 hybrid, and turn the manufacturing of said light into a North Carolina fishing trip. Just kidding. As stated above, I agree about the consistency/stability/parameters being the most important, I'm just curious if adding a second puck (at an angle; see diagram above) would help distribute the light and reduce some shadowing. Do you feel like there is a significant reduction in shadowing from the Nanobox Mini to the Duo? Much less shadowing with a Duo. Double the light. Funny, I may have access to a 12" Hybrid body with old 11" T5 tubes from NanoTuners.... Quote Link to comment
tanacharison Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 On 7/6/2018 at 3:29 PM, Cannedfish said: That's probably the best thing to do; I probably should have thought of that. As someone who is about to put the power of @DaveFason's Hyper-Sun-Death-Star (official name) above your tank, what do you think? Could it work? Maybe I can start pulling some colors out of some sticks. Also two other important things: 1) how was vacay? and 2) Ghost in the Machine (LA's #1 beer IMO) just released, still up for the beer swap (@tanacharison)? I totally missed this last week during my NR downtime. So onto the light topic I actually and more of a fan of shadowing after buying a higher powered light. I really enjoy your set up and I personally think everything looks great so why change? Because everyone loves a new toy 😂 You could go the route that all the Japanese SPS reef growers are going and add par38s on the sides to completely eliminate shadowing. Your fist picture reminded me of a tank I follow that does this. Onto the beer topic... YES!! I might have fell off the deep end last week and bought everything to start home brewing. 1 Quote Link to comment
Cannedfish Posted September 4, 2020 Author Share Posted September 4, 2020 So if two lights are better than one... would four lights be better than two? 1 1 Quote Link to comment
mitten_reef Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Pleasant surprise - a blast from the past. ooh, lighting topic. I def changed my mind on led vs T5. Cuz up until now, I couldn’t get my blanket of light from led that I wanted. Still searching for a solution myself. 1 1 Quote Link to comment
tanacharison Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Its funny to bring this back. I need something for my contest tank, Mangroves are starting to shadow the tank. I'm thinking about adding a few more par bulbs like a mad science experiment. 1 Quote Link to comment
Reefkid88 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 4 primes would cover a 10g perfectly lol. Let me stop before Mitten thinks I'm serious !!! That is the only downside to leds is the shadowing,unless its a smaller tank. Hence why they are great for nano's and pico's. I would use T5's if they still made the smaller fixtures. 1 1 Quote Link to comment
Cannedfish Posted September 4, 2020 Author Share Posted September 4, 2020 26 minutes ago, Reefkid88 said: 4 primes would cover a 10g perfectly lol. Let me stop before Mitten thinks I'm serious !!! Be serious... Because it's about to happen... #3 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment
mitten_reef Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Reefkid88 said: 4 primes would cover a 10g perfectly lol. Let me stop before Mitten thinks I'm serious !!! That is the only downside to leds is the shadowing,unless its a smaller tank. Hence why they are great for nano's and pico's. I would use T5's if they still made the smaller fixtures. It’s ok. @Cannedfish is about the only person I think crazy enough to pull off this whole deal. 🤣 let’s all keep encouraging him in the ‘right’ direction. 2 1 Quote Link to comment
Reefkid88 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Sooo... if we are encouraging good things.. there are a few older Primes for sale on R2R !!!! Or better yet,a G5 XR15 🙂 So you really are about to add a 3rd huh ?! Eff yeahhh !!! Quote Link to comment
Cannedfish Posted September 4, 2020 Author Share Posted September 4, 2020 Add a 3rd... what I forgot to mention is that I also have a 4th hidden in the bat cave... I have some metal fabrication and cord management to figure out, but yeah... we’re gonna see what four Primes do to a 10 gallon. 1 Quote Link to comment
Reefkid88 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 You definitely won't have any shadowing issues lol. I see what your goal is,I really do but are you ready for the name smearing and bs that people are going to say lol ?! You know me,I'm down for the cause lol. I would do a G5 Radion if my wife wouldn't literally murder me in my sleep for the price. I wonder how the color the light puts out from the original HD+ to the 16HD. Wanna send me one to compare ?!?! Because I am not 110% pleased with the spectrum to be 110% honest. 1 Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.