MrObscura's Nuvo 10... still reefing.

[MrObscura]

I'm not going to lie, my corals probably looked their best, sps included, when while fighting dinos I completely ignored nutrient levels and fed like crazy. 

 

No3 was over 80 and po4 was  probably over 0.3.

 

I'll probably let n03 and po4 go up a bit. even if it's not the issue it wont hurt.

 

 

[MrObscura]

Well, this is weird. I just tested alk in my display and my mix water using both my hannah and red sea tests.

 

My tank tested 9.4 with the hannah but 11.2 with red sea. 

 

Mix water tested 8.0 hannah and 8.4 red sea.

 

Yesterday my display tested 9.2 with hannah at 10.9 at the LFS using salifert so the raise to 9.4 hannah and an 11.2 red sea result would suggest the red sea is accurate.

 

But it's odd that the hannah is so off in one instant testing my display and not as off testing my mix water.

 

And I still dont know how my display is alk is rising.  The only thing I can think of is that both times this has happened I added a frag with an unbelievably hard plug that I couldn't cut even with bone cutters. Maybe these plugs leech something? 

[Tamberav]

That is an ORA plug it sounds like, should be fine.

 

Just do a 100% water change and see what happens after? Shrug.

[A.m.P]

Hmmm... The only thing I can think of which would swing apparent-alk by most reagent kits or cause funky-readings would be PH swings, but-like fairly big ones... And usually it's Alk causing PH swings when folks are having issues for that matter, not even sure if you can end up with proper-swings from PH variance to be totally-honest.

[Tamberav]

Do you have another hanna reagent to compare? I have gotten some dumb readings from reagents before that were bad.

 

Also don't store your reagent sideways and it should be out of light and away from moisture.

 

If you own a pH test kit, I would be curious to know the pH. CO2/pH can effect hanna checkers but that is where their margin of error comes in. Actually silica and PO4 can effect them too but it would increase the reading not decrease. 🤔

 

NONE of these test kits are lab grade. 

[MrObscura]

Ph has been 7.8-8.0

[MrObscura]

Losing this recent batch of corals has really taken the wind out of the sails. The hundreds of dollars down the drain could have gone towards much better use. Like a bigger reef.

 

You know? Instead of waiting to turn my 55 into a reef i might just stick with freshwater in that and reboot this nano by Iooking for a deal on a 20 gallon that'll fit on my desk. Idk.

[Tamberav]

I will say 25-30 gallons is sort of the sweet spot. I really love my IM25g. I decided to sell the red sea over it. 

[teenyreef]

I'm so sorry about the problems you've been having. I was just commenting in my 40g thread about how problems with sps almost always seen to tie back to alk swings, either as the cause or as an indicator of the cause, either by itself or in combination with some other factor. 

Seems weird that there is any detectable level of copper (or anything else) in your rodi water, though. My tests always come back all zeros unless I need to change a filter in the rodi system. If you're rodi is at all suspect, it means the usual fix of large repeated water changes might not help. 

[mcarroll]

1 hour ago, MrObscura said:

But it's odd that the hannah is so off in one instant testing my display and not as off testing my mix water.

 

Although alk and phosphate aren't the harshest examples, Hanna tests are very touchy (vs non-digital kits) for all kinds of reasons...lint...fingerprint...water spot...water....leaky cap...complicated proceedure....etc...all can have a big impact on your result and cause results to differ from test to test. 

 

That's one reason I was asking if you'd run three tests back to back.  (A pain and sorta expensive with Hanna, so I get it if there's no way.) 

 

If the testing variability is due to your method of using the kit or due to the kit itself for any reason -- that will usually show it.  At least then you know, so you can adjust or account for it as needed.

 

Testing the way you did (brand vs brand) is somewhat useful, but not quite the same since you still can't be sure if you or the Hanna kit might be contributing to the apparent problem with the Hanna's results.

 

Comparing a kit to itself will tell you if the problem happens to be you or the kit. 

 

This is how I train myself if I get a new test kit, FWIW...I forget where I picked up the guidance.  If I can't produce the same test result three times in a row on the same sample with the same kit and reagents, then I know I'm doing something wrong and A) I keep practicing B) I keep using my old test kits.   😆 

 

Comparing results two different kits may not be entirely valid in this case since the process is so different between the two and that process may be directly impact the results, regardless of the test sample.

[A.m.P]

>_> I still use API for ALK, Hannah is +- 5%, or in some cases nearly half a DKH from what I've stumbled into on the net, API is from blue to green and liable to get you within .5-.75DKH XD I can handle that, most days...

[Tamberav]

My hannah has been very exact as long the reagent is good. Rather I can dose and get expected results and was able to dial in 2 part accurately. 

 

It could technically be off but as long as it's always off the same amount every test then I will be able get stability. I do own a kit to check if it is properly calibrated and its dead on which I think is important just as we check our refractometers. 

 

I definitely use a microfiber to clean the glass and take my sample with a syringe to get exact amounts each time and I always face the 10ml mark part forward and wipe with the microfiber again while holding the top to avoid finger prints. Then rinse with RODI when finished. 

 

It all feels very scientific 😋 

 

I don't mind the other tests either and used to use them. They are cheaper. 

[MrObscura]

Yea, I'm not sure what to do. I'd like to correct the alk with large water changes but I'm nervous about the copper in the rodi. And I dont know what to do about the copper since I'm pretty sure it's not a result of needing to change media. I only make about 3 gallons and a week, flushing the unit before every use, and the di resin is only half way used up visually.

[mcarroll]

1 hour ago, MrObscura said:

I only make about 3 gallons and a week

Any way you can make storage space for a larger batch of RODI -- even 5 or 10 gallons?  The unit probably isn't running as efficiently as it could in tiny batches like that.  The visual indicator is just a dye and is only a rough guide to how much water has flowed over the media, not really how effective the media is or was.  There's some correlation, but unlike the dye indicator, the correlation is (also) dependent on the quality of the water coming into your DI filter so it's not perfect.

 

7 hours ago, MrObscura said:

But it's odd that the hannah is so off in one instant testing my display and not as off testing my mix water.

Practice with the Hanna to get your precision up so you can run a test in triplicate and get very consistent test results with all three tests in a row.  Until then, I'd discount any results you get with the Hanna and base your problem-tracking and decisions on the Red Sea test kit in the mean time.

 

You need to start tracking your alk using ONLY red sea kit results since they seem more consistent.

[MrObscura]

I flush it for 10-15 minutes before use so even if I made larger batches wouldnt the copper still be present?

 

The hannah used to be accurate, I'd occasionally compare it red sea and get similar results.bo dont know what happened. Batteries?

[A.m.P]

1 hour ago, MrObscura said:

I flush it for 10-15 minutes before use so even if I made larger batches wouldnt the copper still be present?

 

The hannah used to be accurate, I'd occasionally compare it red sea and get similar results.bo dont know what happened. Batteries?

Could be batteries I've certainly seen posts where people report pretty wonky low-battery behavior.

 

On a tank with that little volume you could try swapping to distilled water if you're worried about the copper in your RO. 

 

Alternatively many LFS sell pre-mixed SW too, could try grabbing a 5 gallon bucket and just storing it for water changes for a few months and see if things turn around.

[MrObscura]

I got the rodi unit because I didnt trust my LFS water which often had high tds.

 

I'd hate to have spent 200 bucks on an rodi unit just to use distilled.

[teenyreef]

44 minutes ago, MrObscura said:

I got the rodi unit because I didnt trust my LFS water which often had high tds.

 

I'd hate to have spent 200 bucks on an rodi unit just to use distilled.

If it was me, I'd get a new filter, carbon block, and DI, and then retest. It's relatively cheap insurance. Get the refillable kind from BRS and save money in the long run. If your DI looks half used, it may be completely or mostly used up. 

 

Are you showing zero tds at the output of the RODI filter?

[Tamberav]

I change my pre-filters every 6 months regardless of what my TDS is and I change my DI with a high quality spectrapure silica/DI buster yearly... again... regardless... 

 

Even if TDS is 0 it can still have stuff in it. I just do it for peace of mind and to preserve the membrane. I buy my refills on black Friday every year. 

[MrObscura]

It does read zero tds, but...

[Chaozu]

2 hours ago, Tamberav said:

Even if TDS is 0 it can still have stuff in it.

 

This! TDS meter only read to ppm. 

[MrObscura]

Well, it appears dinos have returned for some unexplainable reason. This tank might be cursed. 

 

Looks like it might be time for a no water change stretch again. Then once dinos are gone I'll do a series of water changes and hopefully when all is said and done it'll be something of a reset and I can get the tank back on track. If that does not work it might be time for a full reboot. 

[mcarroll]

  

On 12/1/2019 at 9:15 AM, MrObscura said:

I flush it for 10-15 minutes before use so even if I made larger batches wouldnt the copper still be present?

That's more of a general thing with RO membranes, they just run more efficiently on longer runs....not that short runs are a definitive cause for copper.  (Where was the excess copper detected again?  ICP test?   And what was the level detected?)

On 12/1/2019 at 9:15 AM, MrObscura said:

The hannah used to be accurate, I'd occasionally compare it red sea and get similar results.bo dont know what happened. Batteries?

Could be wear on the glass vials.  Buildup of water spots.   Lazy labware practices.  Hanna kits are awesome for what they are....but they are also awesomely foulable by things like that vs other kits.

 

15 minutes ago, MrObscura said:

Well, it appears dinos have returned for some unexplainable reason. This tank might be cursed.

I know it's been rough sailing, but don't go off course now!  🛩️

 

Remember this quote below from just a couple weeks ago when the tank's dino history came back up.....

 

On 11/30/2019 at 12:11 AM, mcarroll said:

I'd still be making some effort to keep phosphates in the >0.10 ppm territory on that basis, even if there were no coral problems to speak of. 

 

Time to get those phosphate doses going and nail PO4 up to 0.10+ ppm!

 

Test an hour after the first dose to see how much is left.....re-dose if needed (whenever needed) to maintain 0.10+ ppm.  Generally after the first dose or second, you won't need to dose more than once per day, but test and dose at least daily until you're sure what the rate is.  With everything going on, I'd use a liquid phosphate like Seachem's or Brightwell's vs trying to do it with feeding or some other way.   Liquids are very precise and immediately available by comparison.   Watch nitrates and do not let them fall below 5-10+ ppm.   Have some liquid nitrates on hand just in case, IMO.   Neither should cost much.

 

(If you're lucky the dino's will fade out as quickly as they appeared once you get PO4 levels up.  Maybe in as little as a day or so.....so don't wait to do something in case it wants to get worse.)

 

[MrObscura]

Yea, the copper was detected by icp straight from the rodi into the test tube. They detected 1.88ug/l

[A.m.P]

The issues with more sensitive corals could have been a warning sign that Dino's were starting to come back, hope you're able to kick them back out quickly! Lots of carbon should help keep everyone happy in the meantime.

Sorry you're having such a rough go of things...