Third times a charm...I hope

[sadie]

This time I changed my acclimation method. 

My first batch of snails I floated and added 2T of my water to the bag every 10 min. for about 45 min. till temp and salinity matched.  They all died.

Second time around I just floated the bag for an hour and a half till temp was matched.  They lasted 2 days then died.  (different supplier then 1st time)

This time I floated my bag for half an hour and added 1/2 cup of my tank water to bag. every half hour I added 1/2 cup more for about 2 hrs.  Snails look good so far. we'll see. (same supplier as 2nd)

 

[DSFIRSTSLTWATER]

19 minutes ago, sadie said:

This time I changed my acclimation method. 

My first batch of snails I floated and added 2T of my water to the bag every 10 min. for about 45 min. till temp and salinity matched.  They all died.

Second time around I just floated the bag for an hour and a half till temp was matched.  They lasted 2 days then died.  (different supplier then 1st time)

This time I floated my bag for half an hour and added 1/2 cup of my tank water to bag. every half hour I added 1/2 cup more for about 2 hrs.  Snails look good so far. we'll see. (same supplier as 2nd)

 

Good luck sadi  hope it works this time around for you.

[Aurortpa]

24 minutes ago, sadie said:

This time I changed my acclimation method. 

My first batch of snails I floated and added 2T of my water to the bag every 10 min. for about 45 min. till temp and salinity matched.  They all died.

Second time around I just floated the bag for an hour and a half till temp was matched.  They lasted 2 days then died.  (different supplier then 1st time)

This time I floated my bag for half an hour and added 1/2 cup of my tank water to bag. every half hour I added 1/2 cup more for about 2 hrs.  Snails look good so far. we'll see. (same supplier as 2nd)

 

Best wishes!  I used to have iffy luck with inverts too.  Now I pretty much do what you do, just add water ever half hour and leave them in the bag for hours to get situated, seems to help! ??

[sadie]

thanks me too because I don't want to add any fish until I can get a cleaning crew going.  My crabs are all doing well, I just need to get some snails in there.

[sadie]

I woke up this morning and 1 of my 3 snails left the sand and is going on the back wall.    Hope he makes it.  Hope the other two start moving today.

[ReefGoat]

Mine only move at night for whatever reason. During the day they bunch up in the corner of the tank near the intake. Then I have a couple of other types of snail that bury themselves in the sand during the day and then come out every night. I ordered the 10 gallon kit from "Reef Cleaners". There hasn't been one death. I'm wondering if it wasn't your supplier rather than something wrong with your tank. 

[sadie]

15 minutes ago, ReefGoat said:

Mine only move at night for whatever reason. During the day they bunch up in the corner of the tank near the intake. Then I have a couple of other types of snail that bury themselves in the sand during the day and then come out every night. I ordered the 10 gallon kit from "Reef Cleaners". There hasn't been one death. I'm wondering if it wasn't your supplier rather than something wrong with your tank. 

wow, that's cool.  If these snails don't make it, I think I will just order off line.  I hate paying the S&H (usually 30$)  but I have probably spent 30$ on dead snails. (just kidding).

I thought it might be my supplier.  But I have used 2, one local and one not so local (hour drive).  The hour drive one is a good store and sometimes I think the drive is what throws them off.  We will see.

 

right now he's just sitting in the sand, looking at the back wall, thinking about attaching. 

[mndfreeze]

Snails can live in bags of water for days. An hour isn't anything to worry about.  It's a lot more likely to be something with your water.

 

If you order from reefcleaners, or any online supplier, definitely follow reefcleaners instructions.  You DONT want to drip acclimate them in those cases.  But picking up locally you DO want to drip because ammonia and stuff hasn't had time to build up in the bag and salinity shock is much more likely.   Instead of doing the cups of water into the bag method definitely get some airline tubing and tie a knot in it and do a proper drip.  You only need to drip for 45ish minutes.  I always float the bag for 15ish minutes first before starting the drip. 

 

For other inverts that are more sensitive, and more expensive, you usually drip a little longer depending on species.  Some are highly sensitive to PH and salinity changes, while others are not.

 

Also, was there any massive balls of snot looking slime around the dead snails bodies?  Are you sure its not a predator of some sort?  There are some big polyclad flatworms, as well as types of normal shaped worms that eat snails.

[sadie]

39 minutes ago, mndfreeze said:

Snails can live in bags of water for days. An hour isn't anything to worry about.  It's a lot more likely to be something with your water.

 

If you order from reefcleaners, or any online supplier, definitely follow reefcleaners instructions.  You DONT want to drip acclimate them in those cases.  But picking up locally you DO want to drip because ammonia and stuff hasn't had time to build up in the bag and salinity shock is much more likely.   Instead of doing the cups of water into the bag method definitely get some airline tubing and tie a knot in it and do a proper drip.  You only need to drip for 45ish minutes.  I always float the bag for 15ish minutes first before starting the drip. 

 

For other inverts that are more sensitive, and more expensive, you usually drip a little longer depending on species.  Some are highly sensitive to PH and salinity changes, while others are not.

 

Also, was there any massive balls of snot looking slime around the dead snails bodies?  Are you sure its not a predator of some sort?  There are some big polyclad flatworms, as well as types of normal shaped worms that eat snails.

how do you maintain heat in the bag while you drip?  If you float for 15, then take it out for about 1/2 hr, don't you loose all the heat?  

 

There was no snot and I don't think it was another critter.  They just stay in the sand where I put them and die.  I have a tube I could drip, but hopefully these ones will make it.  All my other things live- emerald crab (added a couple months ago) cleaner shrimp is doing great, hermit crabs are awesome, it's just the snails...I dunno...

[Aurortpa]

26 minutes ago, sadie said:

how do you maintain heat in the bag while you drip?  If you float for 15, then take it out for about 1/2 hr, don't you loose all the heat?  

 

All my other things live- emerald crab (added a couple months ago) cleaner shrimp is doing great, hermit crabs are awesome, it's just the snails...I dunno...

When you float it helps adjust temp faster, put the bag in a little bucket you use for the tank only or better yet get one of those cheap stryofoam coolers if that room is significantly different in temp.  As you drip, it should help adjust temp too. Then I’d refloat in tank to adjust to tank temp just for good measure.

 

BTW I learned the hard way you just gotta be slow with setup. For whatever reason in the beginning I couldn’t keep hermits or shrimps alive but now it’s all good. Hoping snails make it but if they don’t just wait a while till your tank matures a bit and try again.

[mndfreeze]

34 minutes ago, sadie said:

how do you maintain heat in the bag while you drip?  If you float for 15, then take it out for about 1/2 hr, don't you loose all the heat?  

 

There was no snot and I don't think it was another critter.  They just stay in the sand where I put them and die.  I have a tube I could drip, but hopefully these ones will make it.  All my other things live- emerald crab (added a couple months ago) cleaner shrimp is doing great, hermit crabs are awesome, it's just the snails...I dunno...

 

Unless the air temp in your house is pretty low it wont drop that fast.  Your tank should be kept roughly around 78 to 80.  You float the bag to adjust it near, then the drip from the water line also drips in at temp water.  Yes, over time you do lose heat but it will not be very fast unless your house is pretty cold.  Also you can use something that insulates a bit if you want to, but its not required.  

 

I still think there is something going on with your water though, or a predator.  Snails are usually hardier compared to other inverts but they really can't handle big swings of things like salinity changes.  It's super common for LFS's to keep their tanks at extremely different salinities than we do in our reef tanks for various reasons.  I have a few LFS's here that keep all their tanks at near fish only levels except for their coral tanks which means I *HAVE* to drip everything that comes from them.  Even a difference of 1.023 to 1.024 can be deadly to a snail if its quick.   

[Floundering_Around]

You could always drip first then float the bag to acclimate to temp. Drip acclimating with an airline is a PITA for me with my set up so I use a turkey baster instead. I don't fill the baster up, maybe halfway or so, and add that amount every few minutes. I'm always doing something else at the same time so acclimation takes forever but I haven't lost anything so far

[sadie]

23 hours ago, Aurortpa said:

When you float it helps adjust temp faster, put the bag in a little bucket you use for the tank only or better yet get one of those cheap stryofoam coolers if that room is significantly different in temp.  As you drip, it should help adjust temp too. Then I’d refloat in tank to adjust to tank temp just for good measure.

 

BTW I learned the hard way you just gotta be slow with setup. For whatever reason in the beginning I couldn’t keep hermits or shrimps alive but now it’s all good. Hoping snails make it but if they don’t just wait a while till your tank matures a bit and try again.

my tank should be mature, everything init is 18 years old.  I just switched tanks, not started a new one.  but I haven't added anything new in a while.  I have never had a problem adding snails or anything for that matter.  I don't know why I am having an issue now.

[sadie]

23 hours ago, mndfreeze said:

 

Unless the air temp in your house is pretty low it wont drop that fast.  Your tank should be kept roughly around 78 to 80.  You float the bag to adjust it near, then the drip from the water line also drips in at temp water.  Yes, over time you do lose heat but it will not be very fast unless your house is pretty cold.  Also you can use something that insulates a bit if you want to, but its not required.  

 

I still think there is something going on with your water though, or a predator.  Snails are usually hardier compared to other inverts but they really can't handle big swings of things like salinity changes.  It's super common for LFS's to keep their tanks at extremely different salinities than we do in our reef tanks for various reasons.  I have a few LFS's here that keep all their tanks at near fish only levels except for their coral tanks which means I *HAVE* to drip everything that comes from them.  Even a difference of 1.023 to 1.024 can be deadly to a snail if its quick.   

a few months ago I tried adding snails and they died so I thought there was something wrong with my water.  That's why I came back here, to figure it out. I went straight to water chemistry and started a thread on there being something wrong with my water.  I tested everything they suggested and it all came back good.  I even changed my heater, thinking maybe that was on the blitz (even though my temp was stable).

 

I think I will place an order on line.  

[Floundering_Around]

I would try acclimating slower next time. If they still die, I don't know what to tell you. Have you been adding the same species of snail? Maybe try a different type of snail?

[Floundering_Around]

Quick question, do you test the salinity of the store's water and the water in the bag before you add the snails?

[mndfreeze]

If you have an LFS that does reef stuff bring your water to them and have them run the full tests.  A lot of time test kits themselves can be off.  The reagents go bad over time, etc.  Also make sure your refractometer is calibrated and check the water in the bag (once you're ready to acclimate, dont open the bag then sit for a while, see reefcleaners website on acclimation for reasons why).

 

Also try to buy young/smaller snails.  I have found that a lot of times when you are buying snails if you get the larger ones they can actually be fairly old, or even have been starving for a long time before you bought them, so even the slightest shock kills them.   Also they are held in massive tanks at importers with no real food, then shipped for days to local stores which also never have enough food for them, which is why their shells are usually all clean and they eat like crazy when you first get em then suddenly it seems like they get 'lazy' and their shells gets dirty.  They were starving before so they cleaned each others shells for any trace of algae.

 

idk.  Keep trying!  Reefcleaners is good.  Years ago when I placed an order they got delivered but the mailman didn't knock and I didn't get a notification like USPS was supposed to send, and they sat on my porch for maybe 2 hours in the middle of arizona summer.  Bunch of my order died.  John replaced them right away without issue, even after explaining everything and it not being his fault.  

 

They also stock some other cooler stuff like chitons!

 

[Aurortpa]

Maybe add a small cut of Polyfilter into the tank—just for good measure? I always have some on hand, if I’m stumped, to remove any potential pollutant I might not be able to test for or remove otherwise.

 

Also, I would go to a LFS next time if needed. Snails are just so hard to acclimate. I always get the snails I see actively climbing the glass too. I just bought 7 ninja star snails today—love them, not preyed on, get in the tiniest of soaces yet strong for lil guys....my longest lived invert at +3 years.  Anyway, I bought them at 6 pm, added a squirt of water every 30 mins for 2 hours, then accidentally fell asleep LOL. They didn’t get released until 6 HOURS LATER. I added a squirt of tank water for another 30 minutes before I even let them in (squirting agitates water for some O2).

 

Hope you get this sorted my friend!

[sadie]

9 hours ago, Floundering_Around said:

I would try acclimating slower next time. If they still die, I don't know what to tell you. Have you been adding the same species of snail? Maybe try a different type of snail?

Mostly I have added the astraea snails, but I did try a few turbos and of the 4 tiny nassarius 2 lived.  I like the bigger ones better.  I use to have 4 of the big ones for years.

 

And yes, I check both salinity and temp before adding them to my tank.  I calibrate my refractometer daily.

[sadie]

8 hours ago, mndfreeze said:

If you have an LFS that does reef stuff bring your water to them and have them run the full tests.  A lot of time test kits themselves can be off.  The reagents go bad over time, etc.  Also make sure your refractometer is calibrated and check the water in the bag (once you're ready to acclimate, dont open the bag then sit for a while, see reefcleaners website on acclimation for reasons why).

 

Also try to buy young/smaller snails.  I have found that a lot of times when you are buying snails if you get the larger ones they can actually be fairly old, or even have been starving for a long time before you bought them, so even the slightest shock kills them.   Also they are held in massive tanks at importers with no real food, then shipped for days to local stores which also never have enough food for them, which is why their shells are usually all clean and they eat like crazy when you first get em then suddenly it seems like they get 'lazy' and their shells gets dirty.  They were starving before so they cleaned each others shells for any trace of algae.

 

idk.  Keep trying!  Reefcleaners is good.  Years ago when I placed an order they got delivered but the mailman didn't knock and I didn't get a notification like USPS was supposed to send, and they sat on my porch for maybe 2 hours in the middle of arizona summer.  Bunch of my order died.  John replaced them right away without issue, even after explaining everything and it not being his fault.  

 

They also stock some other cooler stuff like chitons!

 

Back when I thought there was something wrong with my water, I brought my water to 2 different stores to check.  I had them check for everything.  Petco could only do the reg trites, trates. amonia, salinity, cal and mag, but the other store looked for things like copper etc.  And all came back clean.

 

My test kits are not expired, they have a few years to go .

 

[sadie]

7 hours ago, Aurortpa said:

Maybe add a small cut of Polyfilter into the tank—just for good measure? I always have some on hand, if I’m stumped, to remove any potential pollutant I might not be able to test for or remove otherwise.

 

Also, I would go to a LFS next time if needed. Snails are just so hard to acclimate. I always get the snails I see actively climbing the glass too. I just bought 7 ninja star snails today—love them, not preyed on, get in the tiniest of soaces yet strong for lil guys....my longest lived invert at +3 years.  Anyway, I bought them at 6 pm, added a squirt of water every 30 mins for 2 hours, then accidentally fell asleep LOL. They didn’t get released until 6 HOURS LATER. I added a squirt of tank water for another 30 minutes before I even let them in (squirting agitates water for some O2).

 

Hope you get this sorted my friend!

I don't know if pollyfiber is the same as filter floss.  I just got Stevie Ts media basket and have the filter floss on top shelp (change when it turns color) purigen in the middle and activated charcoal in a bag on the bottom.

 

I have to keep trying because I don't want to add any fish until I can get a good cleaning crew!  I am going to order from reefcleaners and maybe try different stuff.  Those ninja stars look cool.

[sadie]

oh, I was also going to pick up some phosBan and run that for just a bit.  I know phosphates will read 0 and you can still have it.  So I figured add that for a couple days just to make sure.  I was using RO water, but I'm switching to distilled.  Just picked up 6 gal so from now on the WC will be distilled.

 

Thanks for all the help, advice and encouragement.

 

This is so frustrating because this isn't my first rodeo.  I've been doing this for 18 years (though the last 5 I have only maintained and not added anything new)  🤔

 

I keep testing my water daily as if my tank were new, just to make sure the dead snails don't raise anything.  One day it looked like my amonia went up a little (just a hint of green, but still yellow) it went back down with a water change.)

[KNelson]

I just lost the nas that looked like he was about to kick it.  21 days after I got it.  I did the squirt method with about 5ml of water for the better part of an hour.  I have poo lunch with snails too, and my water chemistry is fine besides my stupid phosphates (and they aren't deathly high).  Sometimes they just die.

[sadie]

5 minutes ago, KNelson said:

I just lost the nas that looked like he was about to kick it.  21 days after I got it.  I did the squirt method with about 5ml of water for the better part of an hour.  I have poo lunch with snails too, and my water chemistry is fine besides my stupid phosphates (and they aren't deathly high).  Sometimes they just die.

i would be okay with some dying, if I could get a few to live.  Right now all I have is 2 tiny nassarius  😔

[sadie]

I was looking at reefcleaners and they sell a snail only cleaning package for a 16 high.  I have the Biocube 16, so that would work, right?

 

Or I was looking at getting 4 of the big Nassarius, 4 nerite, and 4 dwarf cerith.  They did not have any ninjas at this time.

 

either way I think I will wait a week and let my tank chill for a bit.  We are getting hot weather this week and without any snails, I had a bunch of algae bust out in a day.  I have been floating ice bags keeping it around 80 (shooting for 79).  I took all my rocks out and scrubbed them (rinsing them in old tank water before putting them back)  

 

My poor emerald crab jumped out of a rock and was sitting in the wet towel (where I put my rocks before putting them back in the tank)  I didn't see him (though I looked) and I flung him off my deck! 😲  I ran down picked him up, rinsed him in old tank water and put him back in the tank.  poor guy, he seems fine though.