Phosphates from water storage container?

[KNelson]

I'm battling stupid high phosphates (to the tune of .25).  I usually test on Fridays before my Saturday maintenance to see how much RowaPhos to add.  I (thought I) had it under control at the beginning of May.  Boy was I wrong.  When I tested the first week of June it was 36ppb, the following week (after a good portion of RowaPhos) it was cut in half so I didn't add more.  Last week it tested 39ppb so I completely refreshed the RowaPhos and did a 4g water change (about 40%) to lower some nitrates and try to bring my alk up a little.  I noticed a few strands of (what I think is GHA) so I went ahead and tested it tonight.  Now it's at 81ppb!  I have to get more water on Saturday so I'm planning to test it as soon as I get it, again on Tuesday, and again on Friday.  Is it possible that my "made for potable water storage" containers are leaching phosphates into my RODI water?  Ugh!

[banasophia]

36 minutes ago, KNelson said:

I'm battling stupid high phosphates (to the tune of .25).  I usually test on Fridays before my Saturday maintenance to see how much RowaPhos to add.  I (thought I) had it under control at the beginning of May.  Boy was I wrong.  When I tested the first week of June it was 36ppb, the following week (after a good portion of RowaPhos) it was cut in half so I didn't add more.  Last week it tested 39ppb so I completely refreshed the RowaPhos and did a 4g water change (about 40%) to lower some nitrates and try to bring my alk up a little.  I noticed a few strands of (what I think is GHA) so I went ahead and tested it tonight.  Now it's at 81ppb!  I have to get more water on Saturday so I'm planning to test it as soon as I get it, again on Tuesday, and again on Friday.  Is it possible that my "made for potable water storage" containers are leaching phosphates into my RODI water?  Ugh!

Well I’m not sure what mine were leaching, but my containers (which I purchased of the same brand from two different LFSs) were leaching something that changed the TDS from 0 when I first filled them up to 30-40 in a few weeks.

[Clown79]

Do you buy your water or make your own?

 

If purchased, I'd say check the watersource rather than the container.

 

It may not be rodi you are buying but ro.

 

Or the company possibly isn't changing the filters often enough.

[banasophia]

2 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

Do you buy your water or make your own?

 

If purchased, I'd say check the watersource rather than the container.

 

It may not be rodi you are buying but ro.

 

Or the company possibly isn't changing the filters often enough.

Well for me, I tested it right after I bought it and the TDS was 0, then 2-3 weeks after it sat in my container I tested again and it was 30-40. 

[seabass]

That's a lot of phosphate.  You can mix up a fresh batch of saltwater and test that to get a better idea where it's coming from.  It could be leaching from your rocks, your sand bed could be a source, what you feed will contribute too.

 

If you can lessen the input, that should help a little.  I suggest adding a refugium or some macroalgae for your display.  I used to fight phosphate issues too.  I ended up replacing my rocks and added plenty of "plants" in my display.  Currently I use no phosphate reducing media and my tanks are both testing 0ppb on my ULR Checker.

 

Undetectable phosphate isn't my goal as it is an important nutrient; so I'd prefer detectable  However, I know I still input phosphate.  Keeping a low bioload helps a little too.  I know how frustrating phosphate issues can be.  It can make you want to quit.  Well, I didn't, but it changed my whole perspective and way of reef keeping.

[KNelson]

7 hours ago, banasophia said:

Well I’m not sure what mine were leaching, but my containers (which I purchased of the same brand from two different LFSs) were leaching something that changed the TDS from 0 when I first filled them up to 30-40 in a few weeks.

I usually have enough water on hand for 6ish weeks of water changes.  I don't make the SW until the morning of WC day, but the containers are outside, covered, and I pretty much live in the desert.  It's my only storage option (although I could change the containers).  I get my water from Aquatic Warehouse.  

[Clown79]

Being kept outside may be an issue.

 

Constant temp changes may be effecting the plastic causing it to leach.

[banasophia]

5 hours ago, seabass said:

That's a lot of phosphate.  You can mix up a fresh batch of saltwater and test that to get a better idea where it's coming from.  It could be leaching from your rocks, your sand bed could be a source, what you feed will contribute too.

 

If you can lessen the input, that should help a little.  I suggest adding a refugium or some macroalgae for your display.  I used to fight phosphate issues too.  I ended up replacing my rocks and added plenty of "plants" in my display.  Currently I use no phosphate reducing media and my tanks are both testing 0ppb on my ULR Checker.

 

Undetectable phosphate isn't my goal as it is an important nutrient; so I'd prefer detectable  However, I know I still input phosphate.  Keeping a low bioload helps a little too.  I know how frustrating phosphate issues can be.  It can make you want to quit.  Well, I didn't, but it changed my whole perspective and way of reef keeping.

@seabass which plants do you recommend for the display? 

[KNelson]

1 hour ago, Clown79 said:

Being kept outside may be an issue.

 

Constant temp changes may be effecting the plastic causing it to leach.

Yeah, unfortunately I have no other option at the moment. 

 

I have no room for a fuge, but have considered macro. 

[seabass]

2 hours ago, banasophia said:

which plants do you recommend for the display?

Good question.  I'm not sure exactly which ones I'd recommend.  For some it's about color, for some, tank conditions (flow and light) will favor some over others.  My 40 gallon tank has a lot of a Red Gracilaria species (there are a number of different species that are called Red Gracilaria), and my 100 has a bunch of Caulerpa prolifera in the sand (looks a bit like seagrass but is easier to keep).

This Red Gracilaria (left) looks more pink than red in this tank.  I'm sure that lighting makes a big difference, and suspect available nutrients might also play a role.  Caulerpa prolifera (on the right).

 

I really like the look of Botryocladia (Red Grape), but only have a bit of it.  It's holding on but not growing a whole lot.  Algae isn't as expensive as corals and they are pretty good shippers.  I suggest you try various macros for yourself.  Check out Live-Plants.com (Gulf Coast Ecosystems) and ReefCleaners.org; both are excellent vendors for algae.

 

Also check out some of the planted marine tanks here on Nano-Reef; there are quite a few.  @Subsea is also a good reference.

[Subsea]

I like Caulerpa Prolifera in the substrate.  It’s thin bladed emerald green fronds are very attractive.  Keep it in the substrate as it’s holdfast are difficult to remove from live rock.

 

Numerous red macros to choose from.  I like Gracilaria Hayi and Bortacladia, Red Grapes.

 

https://www.marineplantbook.com/marinebookprolifera.htm

 

https://www.marineplantbook.com/marinebookgrachayi.htm

 

https://www.marineplantbook.com/marinebookbotryo.htm

[banasophia]

2 hours ago, seabass said:

Good question.  I'm not sure exactly which ones I'd recommend.  For some it's about color, for some, tank conditions (flow and light) will favor some over others.  My 40 gallon tank has a lot of a Red Gracilaria species (there are a number of different species that are called Red Gracilaria), and my 100 has a bunch of Caulerpa prolifera in the sand (looks a bit like seagrass but is easier to keep).

This Red Gracilaria (left) looks more pink than red in this tank.  I'm sure that lighting makes a big difference, and suspect available nutrients might also play a role.  Caulerpa prolifera (on the right).

 

I really like the look of Botryocladia (Red Grape), but only have a bit of it.  It's holding on but not growing a whole lot.  Algae isn't as expensive as corals and they are pretty good shippers.  I suggest you try various macros for yourself.  Check out Live-Plants.com (Gulf Coast Ecosystems) and ReefCleaners.org; both are excellent vendors for algae.

 

Also check out some of the planted marine tanks here on Nano-Reef; there are quite a few.  @Subsea is also a good reference.

Thanks so much, and great pics! I have limited space left in my Biocube 16, but thinking maybe I can try some in the back corner. Beautiful and functional - love it! 

[banasophia]

1 minute ago, Subsea said:

I like Caulerpa Prolifera in the substrate.  It’s thin bladed emerald green fronds are very attractive.  Keep it in the substrate as it’s holdfast are difficult to remove from live rock.

 

Numerous red macros to choose from.  I like Gracilaria Hayi and Bortacladia, Red Grapes.

 

https://www.marineplantbook.com/marinebookprolifera.htm

 

https://www.marineplantbook.com/marinebookgrachayi.htm

 

https://www.marineplantbook.com/marinebookbotryo.htm

Thank you very much for this great info - looking forward to studying up over the weekend. I heavily feed my tank, so my nitrates and phosphates can run high... love the idea of adding some macros to my display if I can fit them. 

[KNelson]

Thanks guys!  I do like the red grape caulerpa and I think something like that would do very well in the center of the front of my tank, light flow and light.  I, too, feed on the heavier side although I'm trying to cut back.  It's just so hard with those cute little fishie faces staring at you, begging for more! 

[KNelson]

I got my RO water on Saturday and immediately tested it for phosphates.  It tested 0.  I tested it again yesterday.  I have 2 identical containers; one was put outside, in its normal storage location, while the other has been taking up space on my livingroom floor, out of direct sunlight and temp controlled.  Both containers tested 0.  I'll test again on Friday, but I'm pretty sure the problem lies in my tank.  At least I narrowed it down and feel comfortable leaving it stored  outside.  I kinda wished it was my stored water though, it would be so much easier to fix that problem. 

[shoonjai]

2 hours ago, KNelson said:

I got my RO water on Saturday and immediately tested it for phosphates.  It tested 0.  I tested it again yesterday.  I have 2 identical containers; one was put outside, in its normal storage location, while the other has been taking up space on my livingroom floor, out of direct sunlight and temp controlled.  Both containers tested 0.  I'll test again on Friday, but I'm pretty sure the problem lies in my tank.  At least I narrowed it down and feel comfortable leaving it stored  outside.  I kinda wished it was my stored water though, it would be so much easier to fix that problem. 

I'd let some more time pass and test again. Maybe a week or more just to be sure

[KNelson]

27 minutes ago, shoonjai said:

I'd let some more time pass and test again. Maybe a week or more just to be sure

Yeah, I will test again Friday and use the water in my house for WC Saturday then test both again some time next week.  The ridiculously rapid rise in phosphates in my tank makes me think that I'd have SOME rise in the containers if they were to blame. 

[KNelson]

I tested both containers and my tank again last night.  The tank is at 0.04 and both containers tested 0.  I'll add a tiny amount of Rowaphos just to keep it low and continue to feed slowly and sparingly.

 

Now to get those nitrates down to 5...