Missing fish and inverts

[Gtrain]

Need some help here. So about 3 months ago I got a cleaner shrimp. Malted after 2 days and never seen again. Sucked but replaced with coral banned shrimp and is still here now. Next to go is about 3 large stormbus snail shell and all never to be seen again. Finally just now after coming home from work my 6 line wrasse is mia. Blasted all my rock work and now has come out. Blasted my sand and nothing. If it is a mantis how do catch it? If it isn’t what is going on. The six line wrasse missing is a bit said had so much character loved the little guy

[mndfreeze]

Do you hear 'clicking' or 'popping' noises coming from your tank ever?  Loud ones, you wouldn't be able to mistake them for anything else.  

 

Have you checked to make sure your water parameters are in check?  

 

Did you use uncured live rock that came straight from the ocean?  A lot of people start with lace rock (dry) or cured live rock that has been sitting in dark tubs of water for a long time, usually at their LFS.   Mantis are usually hitchhikers when your rock is uncured and straight from the ocean.

[Gtrain]

Haven’t heard any loud clicks before. I got the tank second hand about a year ago. They had no corals or snails just 3 damsels and clown. Pulled the whole thing down on the move and seen nothing. Have set a bottle trap over night to see what happens with some mysis shrimp in it.

 

parameters are all good just above 5ppm nitrate and .06 phos

[Gtrain]

If it is a mantis shrimp any tips of removing apart from a bottle trap if that doesn’t work?

[lobster876]

check your tank for any stray electrical currents and that you have enough surface agitation

[mndfreeze]

Generally if you have a smasher type mantis shrimp they will only go after inverts, and you definitely would have heard some popping and clicking noises at some point.  They will chip rock while they make a burrow, etc.  You also generally will eventually see their little head sticking out somewhere...

 

If you think its a predator, it might be something like a worm of some sort.   When you found the bodies of things was there giant piles of mucus near it?

[Gtrain]

I have just check the bottle trap and there is nothing in it and it’s 12:30am I lifted it out and a heap of clear like jelly/mucus was at the entrance. I did also find this guy puffing grey misty stuff near by not sure if related

[Clown79]

If you had a mantis, you'd know.

 

The noise is loud.

 

Have you considered your coral banded shrimp?

They can go after fish, inverts

[Gtrain]

I thought that but this started before I got him. I lost a stormbus and the cleaner shrimp before that.

[Sailingeric]

I lost my very cool firefish a week ago.  I added some corals, he went into hiding and that was the last I saw of him.  I suspect he jumped out and became a cat treat.  Have you checked behind your tank to see if it jumped out?? I have a couple peppermint shrimp who each live in a hole at opposite ends of the tank.  I they use to hang out and could be seen but now all I ever see is them just sticking there heads out now and then.  Possible they are more active at night.  So next time you are up in the middle of night, shine a light on the tank and see if you see your missing shrimp or snails. 

[mndfreeze]

Ok so that last pic looks like its probably a stomatella snail?

 

Big piles of mucus means you probably have a predatory worm like a eunice or other species in your tank.  They are night time predators and get big.  They tend to prey on anything they can catch but mostly clams, snails, crabs and shrimp but can also catch sleeping fish.

 

 

[mndfreeze]

You definitely should start watching your tank at night when its completely dark with a flashlight and get a red filter for it.  Inverts can't see red (usually).  I'm guessing you have a worm thats a predator based on whats been dying and the mucus blobs your finding.  I've been searching for more info for you but coming up short, but I KNOW there is more info on the web/forums about it.

 

[Gtrain]

Thanks mate that’s what I have come up with to. Going into tonight with a small torch coloured red 😞 and a home made trap I found a bit of info on for Oenone fulgida worms. It’s a poly tube with a ladies stocking stuffed into it. One end cap is drilled for access. It has fishing line fed into a small slip to act as a gulitine. Down the end of the stocking is some food so will go into the tube and when it is in there pull the line to close the stocking. Hope it works. Thanks again for your input and help

[mndfreeze]

Awesome. Be sure to update the thread with your results as they happen!

[Gtrain]

Update. So last night set the trap with mysis at the end of it as this is what used the previous night and found the clear mucus. No worm and all food still there after a 4 hour soak in the dark with checks every hour. Thinking changing to meaty food like scallop and a small hole in the end to help release the scent to attract the wanted pest.

[mndfreeze]

If possible you might want to consider removing any snails/crabs you have left and toss them in a side tank for a few days while you hunt your hunter.  Definitely try the scallop and small hole thing.  Good idea to still keep up with water quality checks as well since your purposely putting stuff in that going to be rotting basically.

 

[Gtrain]

Yeah did my water change today but it chemistry night tonight so going to give the trap a miss until tomorrow night. Good idea might do a mid week w/c to keep the nitrate/phosphate down

[Gtrain]

Update. Place trap last night with scallop piece at the end and got two brissel worms. I think the big on is a brissel worm it was quiet large. Will place it again tonight but closer to my rocks to see what comes out

[Gtrain]

Just forgot to turn the aiprime back on for the day but now I am at work. Oooohhhh shit is this going to be a problem as my light starts to ramp at 10am with peaks at 1-4 and I get home at 4:30 to turn it back on. Is one day going to mess my tank up?

[mndfreeze]

No.  You can go days and even weeks with no light and be fine for corals, fish, inverts.  Only plants and algae really suffer badly. A day or few won't matter.

[mndfreeze]

Normal bristleworms are fine.  Check their heads to make sure they are the OK ones.  4 tentacles are bad news bears usually.  

 

have you found any more piles of mucus or anything?  Make sure you are testing your water every day. Just because you lost a few things before adding the coral banded doesn't mean that its related to this.  CBS are known to attack and kill tank mates when they can catch em.  Not super common, but not unheard of by any means.  ESPECIALLY other inverts like shrimp and especially in small tanks where territory is limited. 

 

Put the trap in, wait an hour with lights completely out.  Bust out the flash light and red filter over it and start hunting worm.  Your only other option is to start ripping apart your tank.  Livestock in a holding tank, rock getting dunked and checked in a seperate bucket with something that will piss off or kill hitchhikers.  IMO that's a last ditch sort of option for infestations that can't be controlled by easier means, because it generally kills all the beneficial stuff off too.   

 

Keep looking for big blobs of mucus, especially around dead snails.  If you have no snails really left buy some more if you don't see any results in a week.

[Gtrain]

No mucus found at all. I still have 1 strombus on the sand and 1 turbo, 2 cowrie snailsthat are on the rocks and glass also one nassarus snail. That strombus has been in there from day 1 of me owning the tank but the other strombus I add eventually disappear. The ones that seem to clean glass and rocks and not so much the sand bed last for ever. Never lost one.

 

thanks for the info on the light makes me stress less

[Gtrain]

Another night another couple of brissel worms. Still no mucus in the trap.

 

i am completely stumped as to what is happened. Could it just be a series of un related events? There have been a few weeks between missing live stock and months since this all started. 

 

Going to to give the trap one more night as I have been checking every hour over the night and there is never something going into or out of it. I use a red filter over a torch and inspect the tank when I do.

[mndfreeze]

That's kind of what I was saying before, that it could be unrelated stuff that you're drawing lines together on that isnt actually related.  Coral banded shrimp are known for killing tank mates, especially other shrimp and sometimes sleeping fish (though a lot more rare).  Its more likely you had some other issues going on.  Your fish could have been sick and you just didn't notice, or if you have cats/dogs it could have gone carpet surfing and you just never got to see the body.  Hell it might be stuck in an overflow pipe somewhere or something.

 

When snails and some other inverts die they can have mucus blobs on them from their own body, nassarius snails can also leave a bunch of mucus.  The mucus blobs from predatory worms are BIG though.  Like bigger then the entire snail it would be eating.   If you only have one its possible it still is full from prior meals, or your trap isn't sized well enough to catch it, but more likely is they are unrelated events.

 

Here's what I would do in your position.  Keeping scanning the tank at night with the red filter and flashlight.  Do a tank cleaning and water change.  Don't put the trap back in for 3 or 4 days, and if you have been feeding your other tank livestock, lighten up on it a bit.   

 

After you have barely been feeding for about a week, put the trap back in right before lights out, check on it with the red light filter every 30 minutes or so for a few hours while you binge watch a show or something.  

 

The bristleworms you posted pics of earlier were really blurry and colored kind of weird.  Make sure you reference them against other pictures of bristle worms and check their heads to make sure they are an OK species.  I'm pretty sure they are but you never know.

 

After that I would go back to business as usual on the tank because at that point you are most likely chasing a figment of your imagination.  Replace your clean up crew snails, hermits, etc, go back to feeding like you normally would and keeping params in check and all that.  If a snail or something else dies, look for the BIG blob of mucus.  It should be bigger then the entire snail usually.  Like something covered it completely. 

 

If you do have a fugilda or other predatory worm it will show itself again.  At that point start trapping again and if it fails a few times you should probably just start tearing down your rocks, but I would only do that as a last ditch attempt.   

 

You can also try silversides as bait instead of shellfish. 

 

[Gtrain]

Thanks for the advice think I will go down that route. Haven’t feed all week cause was thinking the same as I might be full. Will give the trap a miss until next Monday night as that will be over a week since the six line went missing.

 

sorry bout the pics they are shocking it was about 1am and was a little dusty from to many beers that night haha.

 

really appreciate your input and line of thinking.