Protein skimmer on softie dominated tank

[Matt L]

Would like to get a skimmer on this 20g. Ive been told skimming with soft corals is actually not good bc softies love the dirtier water. Would dosing phyto or anything make up for this? Any input on this would be greatly appreciated 

[Matt L]

Current load. 4 chromis 2 clowns and a blue spotted puffer. Gsp, colt, toadstool, green shrooms, and then a torch and candy cane. Puffer is well fed so id like to cut back on wc if possible. 

[ajkochev]

Why do you want a skimmer?  The tank looks great to me.  Corals look healthy and you don't have an algae problem.  IMO if it ain't broke don't fix it.

[MakoMan36]

I notice you don't have a sump so adding a skimmer in the DT will take out more real estate. all nano skimmer is useless anyway and won't give the tank any benefit beside more oxygen in the water and also a bunch of microbubbles. Softy tank benefit better with activate carbon  than a skimmer even on a larger tank.

[Matt L]

I would just love the idea of less water changes. I was thinking it might help with that. Long work weeks and sometimes i just dont have the energy. Thanks for the input guys i appreciate it. 

[tdannhauser30]

7 fish in a 20 gal? take some out man. We're not running low income fish housing, give them some space lol.

[HarryPotter]

1 hour ago, Matt L said:

I would just love the idea of less water changes. I was thinking it might help with that. Long work weeks and sometimes i just dont have the energy. Thanks for the input guys i appreciate it. 

The cad-lights PLS 50 elite is a great little skimmer, pulled loads of gunk out of my 28. Having a skimmer let’s one feed more without having high nutrients & algae. 

 

Anyone who says “Skimmers are useless in nanos” does not understand that skimmers perform the same function regardless of water volume. It takes out nutrients.... 

 

 

[Matt L]

Thanks man. Ill check that one out. That was my thought as well 

[JBM]

52 minutes ago, HarryPotter said:

Anyone who says “Skimmers are useless in nanos” does not understand that skimmers perform the same function regardless of water volume. It takes out nutrients.... 

 

 

 

And they are just regurgitating misleading information found on the web. 

 

There are plenty of great nano appropriate skimmers available. While yes, I would say finding a skimmer for a 10 gallon or smaller gets difficult. A 20 gallon would do great with a pls 50 elite i ( or ii)  or a aqua C remora. Hell even a cpr backpack. 

[1891Bro]

1 hour ago, tdannhauser30 said:

7 fish in a 20 gal? take some out man. We're not running low income fish housing, give them some space lol.

I’m laughing that you think his fish pay rent. 

 

Edit: I guess if you could get your fish a SSN they would be considered low income. Hell basically everyone in the SE United States qualifies as low income looking at other parts of the country. 

[Matt L]

Thanks guys. What are your thoughts on over skimming? Is it possible? Would a reef octo classic 100 be too much where it could have ill effects?

[tdannhauser30]

What is your water change schedule like? Unless your going crazy with wc's I would not be worried about over skimming in that tank. In which case just decrease wc's.

[Clown79]

Having a skimmer doesn't allow for less waterchanges. 

 

 

 

 

 

[HarryPotter]

5 hours ago, Clown79 said:

Having a skimmer doesn't allow for less waterchanges. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you are doing water changes to reduce nutrients/take out detritus yes it does  

[markalot]

10 hours ago, Matt L said:

I would just love the idea of less water changes. I was thinking it might help with that. Long work weeks and sometimes i just dont have the energy. Thanks for the input guys i appreciate it. 

Hi Matt,

 

having a skimmer can indeed lead to less water changes if it's efficient enough to match your imports.  It's no guarantee, and in my experience doing less water changes will require you to tolerate more algae which will grow in response to less nutrient export.  There is science behind this, but we can;t measure it so you have to use your eyes.  Getting a HOB skimmer that is efficient enough to do the job.

[Subsea]

Obviously, there are many ways to operate a reef tank.  When I hear that dilution is the solution to pollution, I disagree that water changes solves the root cause of unprocessed organics.  As in most things it is more complex than that.  I also disagree that protein skimmers eliminate the root cause.

 

I operate many skimmerless, sumpless tanks with zero water changes for 6 months.  I prefer to use janitors that consume algae/detritus to sequester these nutrients.  These same janitors multiply to food supply and in so doing their larvae/spores feed filter feeders, including coral.  Imagine that, recycling inorganic nutrients into live food to feed coral.  It happens automatically with differrent food webs.

 

Now to address protein skimmers.  I operate 1000G systems without protein skimmers.  Foam fractionators remove food to grow coral, especially on a softie or invertebrate tank with various filter feeders.  Coral feeding polyps at night are extended as they consum zooplankton manufactured in your tank.  When you add the protein skimmer, those zooplankton will be removed along with free swimming bacteria that also feed your coral.  Now that you stripped out live food from the water, get out your coral smoothie to feed your corals, because they will suffer.

 

While the above  comes  from my 45 years experience as a reef keeper, I will post a link to Ken Felderman article at Advanced Aquaria on the efficiency of protein skimmers.  This article is peer review by PHD scientist who are reef keepers.  

 

In summary, the differrent efficiencies are evaluated using TOC (total organic carbon)

Protein skimmers removed 35% of TOC

GAC (granulated activating carbon) removed 70% of TOC

BIO-FILTER removed > 50% of TOC from the water

 

https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature

[MakoMan36]

14 hours ago, HarryPotter said:

The cad-lights PLS 50 elite is a great little skimmer, pulled loads of gunk out of my 28. Having a skimmer let’s one feed more without having high nutrients & algae. 

 

Anyone who says “Skimmers are useless in nanos” does not understand that skimmers perform the same function regardless of water volume. It takes out nutrients.... 

 

 

I have many nano tanks over the years and many nano skimmer that I have tried is not worth the time and maintenance , all it skim out is pee water and yes it's useless. If you have a sump then thats a whole different story. I never said running a skimmer in a nano is useless , the nano skimmer is . 

Just to name a few useless skimmer I have used:

PLS-50

Tunze 9001 & 9004

Aquamaxx WS-1

RO  BH-50

 

 

By looking at the OP tank those corals can thrive in the sewage so why bother finding way to keep the water clean? They are happier in not so clean water so doing a WC once every month or longer is an easier task then tinkering with extra equipment.

[Jesterrace]

16 hours ago, Matt L said:

I would just love the idea of less water changes. I was thinking it might help with that. Long work weeks and sometimes i just dont have the energy. Thanks for the input guys i appreciate it. 

As a guy who had a HOB skimmer on a 36 gallon tank, I can tell you that the skimmer did almost nothing for water changes (and I had a very nice skimmer by HOB standards).  It did make the water look clearer between them, but I still did 10 gallons one week and 5 gallons the next and then kept repeating over and over again.  It also didn't do a ton for my nitrates either.  The fact remains with that little of a water displacement that a skimmer is simply a needless cost and additional equipment to maintain.  Wish I would've skipped it and saved the $155 for my current 90 gallon upgrade.  I had the Eshoppes PSK-75H on my 36 gallon (but it is probably too tall for that 20).  Here is a vid of it in action:

 

36 gallon bowfront with protein skimmer

[HarryPotter]

11 minutes ago, MakoMan36 said:

I have many nano tanks over the years and many nano skimmer that I have tried is not worth the time and maintenance , all it skim out is pee water and yes it's useless. If you have a sump then thats a whole different story. I never said running a skimmer in a nano is useless , the nano skimmer is . 

Just to name a few useless skimmer I have used:

PLS-50

Tunze 9001 & 9004

Aquamaxx WS-1

RO  BH-50

 

 

By looking at the OP tank those corals can thrive in the sewage so why bother finding way to keep the water clean? They are happier in not so clean water so doing a WC once every month or longer is an easier task then tinkering with extra equipment.

 

Your anecdotal experience does not equate fact, nor reputable science. It is very important to recognize this. 

[bluecard]

3 hours ago, Subsea said:

Obviously, there are many ways to operate a reef tank.  When I hear that dilution is the solution to pollution, I disagree that water changes solves the root cause of unprocessed organics.  As in most things it is more complex than that.  I also disagree that protein skimmers eliminate the root cause.

 

I operate many skimmerless, sumpless tanks with zero water changes for 6 months.  I prefer to use janitors that consume algae/detritus to sequester these nutrients.  These same janitors multiply to food supply and in so doing their larvae/spores feed filter feeders, including coral.  Imagine that, recycling inorganic nutrients into live food to feed coral.  It happens automatically with differrent food webs.

 

Now to address protein skimmers.  I operate 1000G systems without protein skimmers.  Foam fractionators remove food to grow coral, especially on a softie or invertebrate tank with various filter feeders.  Coral feeding polyps at night are extended as they consum zooplankton manufactured in your tank.  When you add the protein skimmer, those zooplankton will be removed along with free swimming bacteria that also feed your coral.  Now that you stripped out live food from the water, get out your coral smoothie to feed your corals, because they will suffer.

 

While the above  comes  from my 45 years experience as a reef keeper, I will post a link to Ken Felderman article at Advanced Aquaria on the efficiency of protein skimmers.  This article is peer review by PHD scientist who are reef keepers.  

 

In summary, the differrent efficiencies are evaluated using TOC (total organic carbon)

Protein skimmers removed 35% of TOC

GAC (granulated activating carbon) removed 70% of TOC

BIO-FILTER removed > 50% of TOC from the water

 

https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature

Hi subsea,

 

I am still new at this and trying to learn as much as I can. In your opinion what is vital to a successful reef tank? What is your typical maintenance routine? From reading a lot of your posts you are not big into protein skimming or water changes. 

[MakoMan36]

4 minutes ago, HarryPotter said:

 

Your anecdotal experience does not equate fact, nor reputable science. It is very important to recognize this. 

 

So base of from my user experience is not reliable so what make yours reliable and accurate? I would love to here that.

 

Isn't all these forum is sharing what user have to say about these product instead of buying it by their claim?

 

[HarryPotter]

10 minutes ago, MakoMan36 said:

 

So base of from my user experience is not reliable so what make yours reliable and accurate? I would love to here that.

 

Isn't all these forum is sharing what user have to say about these product instead of buying it by their claim?

 

 

You said: 

 

“I have many nano tanks over the years and many nano skimmer that I have tried is not worth the time and maintenance , all it skim out is pee water and yes it's useless.” 

 

     Just because your skimmer skimmed out pee water, you generalize it to skimmers are useless on nanos. Fallacy 101. Some people get nice black skimmate out of theirs- do I need images or can you accept that your personal experience may not represent the entirely of reefing hobbiests?  

 

I never claimed that skimmers were a necessity- just that by definition, a skimmer removes waste. The size of the tank is irrelevant- plenty of people have a Cadlights PLS-50 on their nano and get awesome skimming. 

 

Don’t make anecdotes into broad generalized claims. Or if you want to, make sure to use a heavy helping of garlic too! 

 

[MakoMan36]

6 minutes ago, HarryPotter said:

 

You said: 

 

“I have many nano tanks over the years and many nano skimmer that I have tried is not worth the time and maintenance , all it skim out is pee water and yes it's useless.” 

 

     Just because your skimmer skimmed out pee water, you generalize it to skimmers are useless on nanos. Fallacy 101. Some people get nice black skimmate out of theirs- do I need images or can you accept that your personal experience may not represent the entirely of reefing hobbiests?  

 

I never claimed that skimmers were a necessity- just that by definition, a skimmer removes waste. The size of the tank is irrelevant- plenty of people have a Cadlights PLS-50 on their nano and get awesome skimming. 

 

Don’t make anecdotes into broad generalized claims. Or if you want to, make sure to use a heavy helping of garlic too! 

Oh so you get offended because it doesn't work for me and it works for you, nice... plenty of people have a Cadlights PLS-50 on their nano and get awesome skimming and plenty of people don't so don't take your claim as a whole. For me if it's skimming light tea color then it's junk and not worth my time to keep that in my tank.  Your personal experience may not represent the entirely of reefing hobbyist either. 

 

Ps: you need to drink some cool pill and move on, it's nothing here for you anymore you have your opinion I got mind so move on.

 

 

6 minutes ago, HarryPotter said:

 

 

[tdannhauser30]

13 hours ago, Clown79 said:

Having a skimmer doesn't allow for less waterchanges. 

Ohh yes it does, Harrys got my back lol

[tdannhauser30]

1 minute ago, MakoMan36 said:

Oh so you get offended because it doesn't work for me and it works for you, nice... plenty of people have a Cadlights PLS-50 on their nano and get awesome skimming and plenty of people don't so don't take your claim as a whole. For me if it's skimming light tea color then it's junk and not worth my time to keep that in my tank.  Your personal experience may not represent the entirely of reefing hobbyist either. 

 

Ps: you need to drink some cool pill and move on, it's nothing here for you anymore you have your opinion I got mind so move on.

 

 

 

l sounds like your the one who needs the cool pill, lol Guessing you meant chill pill?  He never got offended, was just letting the OP know that despite what Makoman is telling you, plenty of people have great success with those skimmers.  I agree with him. I run a HOB reef octopus on my nano28 and pull some really really dark skimmate from my tank.