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Innovative Marine Aquariums

Mandarin training


LJR

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So after about three months of my biocube being cycled and running, and many visible pods, I decided to add a mandarin. There were many at the lfs that were eating frozen mysis, so I grabbed one from the same tank, a smaller female.

I've been following the directions on the thread thus far, and drilled some hole in my plastic breeder box. She's been in the breeder box for about a day, and has been rather stressed the entire time. When I flicked the lights off, she really panicked. What would be my best option here? She was fat and happy when I got her, but she's already starting to thin. I'm worried this stress will wear her down before she eats. 

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Has it eaten yet?

 

Maybe being kept in the breeder box is stressing it out?

 

That's a good thread to start on.

 

I know during training, target feeding multiple times a day is essential

 

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Pod bloom in such a young tank is normal and the numbers tend to normalize/crash after so you will need a plan. If you overfeed the mandy/tank then you will have more pods but also ugly algae that can smother corals so export is needed if you want the perfect situation. Display macroalgae would be very helpful for breeding pods and taking up nutrients.

 

I would just let her out and target feed that way.

 

This isn't really a fish I would recommend to a beginner, the stress of keeping one and keeping a nice looking tank is really more than a person new to the hobby should take on, especially in such a young setup that will struggle with the excess feedings.

 

I know in another post you were already struggling with algae. This will actually be beneficial to the mandarin since pods will love to eat all that debris/algae and breed but not helpful at all for coral or having a nice looking tank. 

 

If you still have that cleaner shrimp, they tend to steal food from the mandarin (or anything really) and may pose a challenge. Certain fish can act the same way. 

 

These fish really deserve a well thought out tank/plan. If you can get her eating, its not too late but you will need to up your game on nutrient export and possibly re-home the shrimp or other pesky inhabitants. 

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9 hours ago, Clown79 said:

Has it eaten yet?

 

Maybe being kept in the breeder box is stressing it out?

 

That's a good thread to start on.

 

I know during training, target feeding multiple times a day is essential

 

He has not begun eating, but he wasn't calming down either, so I put him in the main. I spot fed him everything I had, but he's just swimming aimlessly, and along the glass. When he escaped yesterday for a while, he was acting normal, I may have done more harm than good with the breeder it seems. Hopefully he'll calm down and eat the pods I have. 

 

8 hours ago, Tamberav said:

Pod bloom in such a young tank is normal and the numbers tend to normalize/crash after so you will need a plan. If you overfeed the mandy/tank then you will have more pods but also ugly algae that can smother corals so export is needed if you want the perfect situation. Display macroalgae would be very helpful for breeding pods and taking up nutrients.

 

I would just let her out and target feed that way.

 

This isn't really a fish I would recommend to a beginner, the stress of keeping one and keeping a nice looking tank is really more than a person new to the hobby should take on, especially in such a young setup that will struggle with the excess feedings.

 

I know in another post you were already struggling with algae. This will actually be beneficial to the mandarin since pods will love to eat all that debris/algae and breed but not helpful at all for coral or having a nice looking tank. 

 

If you still have that cleaner shrimp, they tend to steal food from the mandarin (or anything really) and may pose a challenge. Certain fish can act the same way. 

 

These fish really deserve a well thought out tank/plan. If you can get her eating, its not too late but you will need to up your game on nutrient export and possibly re-home the shrimp or other pesky inhabitants. 

I am aware of the bioload tax that mandarins tend to cause. There will be chaeto in the back in the future (haven't been able to get any since Irma), but I plan on letting the algae grow out a bit until I do, for export, and mandarin food. 

The mandarin is an old pet project I never got to take on until now. To be honest, if keeping a nasty tank for a while keeps him healthier, I'll deal with it. I am not adverse to a bit of algae either. 

I was worried about the shrimp, but once I throw him a food flake, he'll go away. I have a yasha goby, banggai cardinal, and fire fish in there. I figured I was going to try a mandarin, so I picked them out to keep them away from it. 

I tried to have this work better, but admittedly, it looked better on paper. I will be dillegent as I can about all of those things. 

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7 hours ago, FLARGUE said:

Can you get your mandarin to eat roe? Mine does and it's as fat as can be, doing really well in my 20 gal. I got him this way from the pet store, but it seems much more sustainable than trying to cultivate pods in a small tank. https://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=18988

My Mandarin unfortunately died before I got a chance to offer roe, I was planning on grabbing it today. He was nowhere near starving, and he never really looked for food, leading me to believe he had some sort of underlying condition. However, I did end up with a larger scooter blenny today, after a trip to another LFS for some RO water. He is already eating both mysis, and the roe I picked up, and I bought him fat and happy, so I believe he's off to a good start.

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Sorry for the loss :( It's a lot of stress to be caught in the wild... dragged far away to a holding tank... sent to a LFS... then another trip home. They do have some captive bred mandys now but sometimes they stop eating prepared in the new tanks as well.

 

Scooters are generally much easier/less picky for whatever reason. They just seem less sensitive/shy overall.

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38 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

Sorry for the loss :( It's a lot of stress to be caught in the wild... dragged far away to a holding tank... sent to a LFS... then another trip home. They do have some captive bred mandys now but sometimes they stop eating prepared in the new tanks as well.

 

Scooters are generally much easier/less picky for whatever reason. They just seem less sensitive/shy overall.

Thank you. And I certainly know it. In retrospect, I probably should have just let her into the main display sooner, rather than putting her in the breeder. I think it caused way too much undue stress on top of what she already had. I've heard those captive bred ones (Biota does it right now, right?) have been more trouble than they're worth. I certainly think they'll eventually take off, but it won't be any time soon.

 

I knew I should have probably rolled with the scooter from the beginning, I just underestimated the actual difficulty of raising a mandarin. A lesson on experience > bookwork has been learned here.

 

Considering that the LFS I got this new guy from usually only ships in stock every / every other Saturday I believe, I find it surprising that this guy was as full at fat as he is, especially come from a fully - packed small tank that he was in. He may have been a fluke, as the scooter in the tank over was close to starving to death, but for the $12.99 he was, I'm pretty happy with him. I still plan on doing my best, but I have high hopes for the little guy (or big guy, actually, he dwarfs everything else I have except maybe the Bangaii)

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The biggest thing people fail to understand about Mandarins are not just the pod problem, but the fact that they are very slow methodical feeders.  Therefore even if you get them to eat other food sources they need such frequent feeding that it is nearly impossible for a person to keep up with them and it is very difficult for them to get to the food until after other fish have zipped in and gobbled it up.  Personally I feel that a single mandy needs 75lbs or more of live rock that has had a year or more to build up a really solid copepod population in order to have half a chance at survival in captivity.  

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I think your point stands if you're only talking pods. There are many examples of mandarins surviving in smaller tanks, when supplemented with other foods. Frozen prawn roe melts in the water, and disperses. This allows the the mandarin to snatch up individual eggs settled on the sand bed, while the other fish eat the suspended roe. It's been working pretty well for me, and I've got a pretty fat fish to show for it.

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