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On 4/3/2018 at 12:43 PM, Tamberav said:

I love micro inverts, I find all those little guys fascinating and sort of adds a realism to the reef instead of a sterile looking environment. 

 

While my 22g is run off skimmers/gfo, ect. I do plan on setting up my 25g to be a heavy fed system, I had a macro/softy/lps tank previously I fed the hell out of and really enjoyed that approach and would like to do it again. All the corals we have to choose from and I find I like macroalgae more. :P

 

With the selection of differrent variety of ornamental macro increasing, I could not aquascape a tank without macro.  Also, the selection of interesting filter feeders is increasing.  Diversity in filter feeders for me is the real reward in high nutrient systems.

 

https://www.azula.com/feather-starfish-magical-to-be-real-2476378646.html

Not that Inrecommend this.  My friend Timfish has had one for 6 months in a pivotal species tank.  He drips live zooplankton into tank 24/7.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Subsea said:

With the selection of differrent variety of ornamental macro increasing, I could not aquascape a tank without macro.  Also, the selection of interesting filter feeders is increasing.  Diversity in filter feeders for me is the real reward in high nutrient systems.

 

https://www.azula.com/feather-starfish-magical-to-be-real-2476378646.html

Not that Inrecommend this.  My friend Timfish has had one for 6 months in a pivotal species tank.  He drips live zooplankton into tank 24/7.

 

 

Beautiful and interesting creature. I would love to try a full NPS tank someday with all the difficult corals and have a drip system for food and maybe automatic water changes. Probably a few years off though. 

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  • 1 month later...
On 4/7/2018 at 10:39 AM, Tamberav said:

Beautiful and interesting creature. I would love to try a full NPS tank someday with all the difficult corals and have a drip system for food and maybe automatic water changes. Probably a few years off though. 

For certain a phytoplankton reactor is integral to optimizing natural food webs.   I am interested in establishing a modified drip/batch phytoplankton reactor to feed my 25 year old tank.

 

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/aquabreed-complete-aqua-medic.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwlcXXBRBhEiwApfHGTZJIPUsWjqaH3a8SXm-xKnEaN5oEuBCMpedScWP8BUf9BABsW3E1ohoCPfEQAvD_BwE

 

I am looking at this as the reactor.  I would like to use rope led wrapped around this reactor.  Because I want to eleminate light spillage in room, I planned on using 4” PVC as an outer shroud.  The outside diameter of reactor is 3.25”.  If led rope is thin enough, reactor fits inside of 4”  PVC for a clean display without light in room.

 

Any recommendation on rope led is appreciated.  Reactor is 18” high and 3.25” in diameter.

Thank you in advance.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Duane Clark said:

I will have to read through this is greater detail.  on the surface seems more complicated.

Let us keep it simple.  No need to be complex.

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@sea bass

 

With respect to phytoplankton culture, I will use a 5G bucket with drain spicket at bottom.  Light will be 16W led floodlight at 5000 kelvin.   When culture is dense enough, as determined by color, drain off 1G to add some to many differrent tanks.  For makeup water to phytoplankton culture, I will use discharge from 40W UV sterilizer that is on established tank.  I am considering the necessity of sterilizing the air going thru air pump.

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Careful what lights and reactor you use. Some people had the lights cause cracks in the reactor. I am guessing heat from the lights caused the acrylic to expand. 

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2 hours ago, Tamberav said:

Careful what lights and reactor you use. Some people had the lights cause cracks in the reactor. I am guessing heat from the lights caused the acrylic to expand. 

For certain, it is an inexpensive diy.  I have a clear water cooler that I will use as reactor.  I do not plan on touching light to reactor. Light will be suspended above the water.

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2 hours ago, Tamberav said:

Careful what lights and reactor you use. Some people had the lights cause cracks in the reactor. I am guessing heat from the lights caused the acrylic to expand. 

On a 150G display, I cracked the 1/2” thick center brace glass with the heat from a 400W MH light.

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Continuing with carbon.

 

Remember a Star Trek episode, in which artificial intelligence was “on a mission” to wipe out “carbon unit infestations”.  So we are a carbon based planet using carbon dioxide in the athmosphere to add carbonate & bicarbonate alkalinity, that when coupled with photosynthesis, we have biochemistry.  Through photosynthesis, inorganic nutrients like carbon dioxide, nitrogen and phosphorous combine to form organic biomass in the ratio of 106/16/1 of C/N/P.

 

In this next article on nutrient pathways, the author outlines how 60% of the energy on a reef is expanded in the

“microbial loop”.

 

https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2017/9/aafeature

 

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@sea bass

 

Considering that the importance of phytoplankton in the marine food chain can not be over emphasized, I have taken your lead to grow a continuous culture.    I read further into photoperiod & phytoplankton culture and was surprised that the consensus was 16hrs minimum and 24hrs maximum.  Kudos to you.  Obviously, it depended on which species of phytoplankton.  However, I can not agree with using Miracle Grow.  I am going to stick with Guillard’s f/2 for my fertilizer and trace minerals.

 

http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/w3732e/w3732e06.htm

 

I am really stoked on making this happen.

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@Subsea What are your thoughts in Po4/Nitrate removal and Macroalgae?

 

What I mean is they uptake Nitrate and PO4 and starving corals is bad if we get to truly 0 or near 0 levels. People often accidentally starve corals using say... GFO or some other artificial means.

 

Can macro have such a dramatic effect? Or do they perhaps the uptake it slower giving the corals a chance to compete for the limited nutrients?

 

Just curious.

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@Tamberav

Add ammonia to a tank:  corals, macro and bacteria all compete for it.  Nutrient recycling on a reef is how animals can prosper in water seemingly devoid of nutrients.  

 

IMO, macro are not as efficient at removing inorganic nutrients from water column as coral is.  That being the case, macro growth would slow down with reduced nutrients in the water.  In the extreme  case of a fast growing macro under intense light, the macro would likely go sexual.

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17 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

@Subsea What are your thoughts in Po4/Nitrate removal and Macroalgae?

 

What I mean is they uptake Nitrate and PO4 and starving corals is bad. People often accidentally starve corals using say... GFO or some other artificial means.

 

Can macro have such a dramatic effect? Or do they perhaps update it slower giving the corals a chance to compete for the limited nutrients?

 

Just curious. 

You are right about starving corals when using ion exchange resins.  What I like about macro controlling nutrient removal is the fact that nature built in controls on how macro generally responds to reduced nutrients, it stops growing.

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7 hours ago, Subsea said:

You are right about starving corals when using ion exchange resins.  What I like about macro controlling nutrient removal is the fact that nature built in controls on how macro generally responds to reduced nutrients, it stops growing.

That's been my line of thinking as well. It doesn't seem likely that a macro algae could outcompete corals enough to starve them. Not to mention that if that did happen it would be a slow process, unlike suddenly stripping a tank clean with GFO.

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On 5/14/2018 at 6:21 AM, Nocturnal said:

That's been my line of thinking as well. It doesn't seem likely that a macro algae could outcompete corals enough to starve them. Not to mention that if that did happen it would be a slow process, unlike suddenly stripping a tank clean with GFO.

This automatic response of reduced macro growth in response to reduced  nutrients is what I choose to call Dynamic Equilibrium as a part of Intelligent Design.  Nature is very efficient at processing energy.  Also, nature is very creative in how biochemistry and the “coral holobiont” works.  Recent research has shown not only that corals feed directly on bacteria but that corals are selective about which bacteria they harvest.  Not only does coral harvest a specific bacteria, but coral secreates an enzyme specific to the growth harmone of that particular bacteria.  Did that coral just manipulate its environment?  We have known for many years about the chemical warfare of softies and the stinging sweeper tentacles of LPS, now we have some coral acting as Master Gardner.  As science reveals more facts about how our marine environment is a living, breathing system that is powered by photosynthesis but is maintained by the laws of nature, Dynamic Equilibrium,    Now, we find that the creatures that are in this environment are manipulating it to their benefit.  As Keeper of the Reef, my goal is to “balance the system” so that my display tank is pleasing to me with minimum effort on my part.  That makes me a “Laissez Faire” reef keeper.

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Nano sapiens
On 5/14/2018 at 4:21 AM, Nocturnal said:

That's been my line of thinking as well. It doesn't seem likely that a macro algae could outcompete corals enough to starve them. Not to mention that if that did happen it would be a slow process, unlike suddenly stripping a tank clean with GFO.

GFO was originally marketed correctly as a substance to lower abnormally high phosphate conditions and it was not meant to be used continuously.  However, through effective marketing and backed by selective scientific articles, it became a 'must use' substance that many reef keepers incorrectly believed that their aquarium couldn't do without.  

 

As Subsea mentioned, corals are amazingly adaptable in regards to feeding strategies.  Natural methods of reef keeping are highly unlikely to strip a tank of enough nutrients to seriously effect coral health.  To know what it takes to actually do so in a naturally filtered reef aquarium, I can say from my own experiment a number of years back that one needs to remove all fish, severely limit the cleanup crew and don't feed the tank at all for about 4 months.  The corals then became quite pasty colored and growth nearly stopped, but even under these extreme conditions all the corals survived and rapidly recovered once the system was run normally again.

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Musings from the Lazy Boy.

 

To recycle nutrients from one level to another as live food is my goal in natural filtration.  It is a “Question of Balance”.  Introduce food to tank while feeding fish.  Excess food fuels nuisance algae with a corresponding increase in detrivore population.  If seeing some algae is a major eyesore for you, then you should read no further and go clean your system.  Flame Scallops like my macro algae tanks.

 

@Nano sapiens

Amen to not getting on band wagon with indiscriminate use of GFO.

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DSFIRSTSLTWATER

Subsea this a great read thanks for the info. This is exactly why I love nature it truly is amazing and having my saltwater tank has been so awesome. I try to keep it as natural as possible which is how I try to keep all my animals..red eye tree frogs and my cali king snake. 

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On 5/13/2018 at 1:20 PM, Subsea said:

Continuing with carbon.

 

Remember a Star Trek episode, in which artificial intelligence was “on a mission” to wipe out “carbon unit infestations”.  So we are a carbon based planet using carbon dioxide in the athmosphere to add carbonate & bicarbonate alkalinity, that when coupled with photosynthesis, we have biochemistry.  Through photosynthesis, inorganic nutrients like carbon dioxide, nitrogen and phosphorous combine to form organic biomass in the ratio of 106/16/1 of C/N/P.

 

In this next article on nutrient pathways, the author outlines how 60% of the energy on a reef is expanded in the

“microbial loop”.

 

https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2017/9/aafeature

 

A correction/update is required.  Redfield Ratio of 106/16/1 of C:N:P is for phytoplankton.  Macro algae biomass is somewhat variable at 560:30:1

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I have to say I was recently thinking of going all natural and I posed the question and thanks to Redsea I did. I took out my skimmer and replaced it with a HOB refugium with chaeto. 

 

It’s only been a week and already I’m seeing the positive effects. My RFA’s are opened more. So are my LPS. One of my SPS that was starting to STN has stopped and is coloring back up. 

 

Maybe it’s a coincidence, but so far I’m liking the change!

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Nano sapiens
51 minutes ago, nicholc2 said:

I have to say I was recently thinking of going all natural and I posed the question and thanks to Redsea I did. I took out my skimmer and replaced it with a HOB refugium with chaeto. 

I think you'll find that over time the system will become more stable and the organisms will appear less stressed.

 

Now, what can really bend people's minds is that it's possible to go even simpler and forego the macro algae (just regular water changes with some detritus removal).  Either way, good results are possible and this just goes to show how adaptable a reef system can be if given stability and sufficient time to mature.

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